New 72nd Scale Messerschmitt Me410 launched at Telford

[tdm34]

Nice surprise, and it's already available....

https://uk.airfix.com/products/messerschmitt-me410...

[Simpo Two]

Rearward-firing guns on the sides, interesting.

[Super Sonic]

Built a match ox model of this bitd.

[Eric Mc]

Got mine at Telford

[Yertis]

Mark V GTD said:

Yes it’s the infamous ‘Schrage Musik’ set up using twin MG131’s, designed to swivel upwards (up to 80 degrees) while the 410 was flying underneath poorly protected RAF heavy bombers.

Edited by Mark V GTD on Monday 13th November 04:21

Hmmm – convince me I understood that the Schrage Musik installation was fixed installation. The 410 wasn't used as a night fighter (night intruder yes) and the little barbettes were intended for rearward defence. Happy to learn more if I'm wrong.

Anyway, whatever, it's an ugly aeroplane.

[Eric Mc]

I’m pretty sure you are right.
The Schragw Music installation as fitted to Bf110s, Ju88s and other night fighters tended to be mounted on the top of the fuselage at a fixed upward firing angle.

[wolfracesonic]

The internet says they’re FDSL 131 remotely operated turrets if they’re the same as fitted to the 210.

[wolfracesonic]

The internet says they’re FDSL 131 remotely operated turrets if they’re the same as fitted to the 210.

[r159]

This is the one which is at Cosford (which we popped into on the way back from SMW yesterday).

[Fast and Spurious]

Yertis said:

Hmmm – convince me I understood that the Schrage Musik installation was fixed installation. The 410 wasn't used as a night fighter (night intruder yes) and the little barbettes were intended for rearward defence. Happy to learn more if I'm wrong.

Anyway, whatever, it's an ugly aeroplane.

I think it's a pretty little thing.

[Eric Mc]

I've always liked the 210/310/410 family - even if they were less than brilliant. The 210 in particular was very, very flawed.

[Halmyre]

Fast and Spurious said:

Yertis said:

Hmmm – convince me I understood that the Schrage Musik installation was fixed installation. The 410 wasn't used as a night fighter (night intruder yes) and the little barbettes were intended for rearward defence. Happy to learn more if I'm wrong.

Anyway, whatever, it's an ugly aeroplane.

I think it's a pretty little thing.

Looks not unlike the de Havilland Hornet.

[Eric Mc]

Although it was a lot slower

[Krikkit]

wolfracesonic said:

The internet says they’re FDSL 131 remotely operated turrets if they’re the same as fitted to the 210.

Seems so, firing angles:

[Smoggy XJR]

Krikkit said:

Seems so, firing angles:

There was an episode of World at War, concerning Bomber Command, (shown today), where a Germannight-fighter pilot talks about this and the tactics used.

[Simpo Two]

Smoggy XJR said:

Krikkit said:

Seems so, firing angles:

There was an episode of World at War, concerning Bomber Command, (shown today), where a Germannight-fighter pilot talks about this and the tactics used.

More likely he was talking about this puppy, Schrage Musik:

[Eric Mc]

The rotating barbettes were for rear end protection, not anti-bomber use.

[Yertis]

I presume the barbettes were intended to cover blind spots that couldn't be covered by the usual machine gun in the back of the cabin kind of arrangement. But unless there was some kind of optical system too how would they be aimed at aircraft below the tail? Seems a very complex solution to rearward defence when the actual problem was being slow and not very agile.

[Eric Mc]

I'm sure it wasn't too accurate.

Some versions of the Heinkel He111 also had a remote gun - in the tail - although being an older design it was non-swivelling. They were designed as "scare guns" just to put a pursuing fighter off its aim.

[Halmyre]

How do you stop it shooting its own tailplanes off?