When is a trailer legally a caravan?

[Giles_M]

Can anyone help please

I have a small Mink Camper Trailer:
https://www.minkcampers.co.uk/mink

Important details.
Gross weight 750 kg
Net weight 520 kg
Overall length 4116 mm

I tow it with my new Defender that weighs in at over 2100 kg and has 400bhp so towing it is not a problem, on some roads you see road signs that may say, "Unsuitable for Caravans" or occasionally "No Caravans", but there is often no reference to trailers, does anybody know if I am legally towing a trailer or a caravan.

[scorcher]

It’s unlikely to get stuck at pinch points and / or runaway down any steep hills like a full size wobble box so personally I wouldn’t be worried about taking it past the signs

[OutInTheShed]

Got to love the way the OP lists the important details, not mentioning the width.

For sure, it's a bit narrower than the average caravan.

We have some of those 'unsuitable for caravans' signs in Devon.
AFAIK, they are advisory.

But it's usually good advice.

How good is the OP at reversing his trailer along narrow roads with tight corners?
Because that's what you have to do when some equal muppet comes the other way.

[Giles_M]

scorcher said:

It’s unlikely to get stuck at pinch points and / or runaway down any steep hills like a full size wobble box so personally I wouldn’t be worried about taking it past the signs

I agree, which is why I do normally ignore the signs, and most places I do this are so remote the chance of meeting anyone who cares is highly unlikely, but I saw some definite "No Caravans" on a busy A road (no mention of trailers) when I was out a few weeks ago, I didn't have the caravan with me, but it made me wonder, what is the legal definition of a caravan, as opposed to a trailer

[MustangGT]

Giles_M said:

Can anyone help please

I have a small Mink Camper Trailer:
https://www.minkcampers.co.uk/mink

Important details.
Gross weight 750 kg
Net weight 520 kg
Overall length 4116 mm

I tow it with my new Defender that weighs in at over 2100 kg and has 400bhp so towing it is not a problem, on some roads you see road signs that may say, "Unsuitable for Caravans" or occasionally "No Caravans", but there is often no reference to trailers, does anybody know if I am legally towing a trailer or a caravan.

It looks like a small caravan to me.

[Giles_M]

OutInTheShed said:

Got to love the way the OP lists the important details, not mentioning the width.

For sure, it's a bit narrower than the average caravan.

We have some of those 'unsuitable for caravans' signs in Devon.
AFAIK, they are advisory.

But it's usually good advice.

How good is the OP at reversing his trailer along narrow roads with tight corners?
Because that's what you have to do when some equal muppet comes the other way.

You're right, width is important: Overall width 2080 mm.

[pherlopolus]

I know the road between Pickering and Thirsk (Sutton Bank) is "No Caravans" for a stretch due to 25% (1 in 4) gradients, rather than width, and the locals take glee in ringing the police if they see one trying

“Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation capable of being moved." is what a caravan is according to the 1960 Caravan Act.

[E-bmw]

pherlopolus said:

I know the road between Pickering and Thirsk (Sutton Bank) is "No Caravans" for a stretch due to 25% (1 in 4) gradients, rather than width, and the locals take glee in ringing the police if they see one trying

“Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation capable of being moved." is what a caravan is according to the 1960 Caravan Act.

I know Sutton bank well & have been up/down it several times in my motorhome, but I must now think again, as according to that definition I am driving a caravan & so am not allowed to.

[OutInTheShed]

Signs banning caravans would be a different issue.

Severn Bridge used to ban caravans if it was windy.

[Giles_M]

pherlopolus said:

I know the road between Pickering and Thirsk (Sutton Bank) is "No Caravans" for a stretch due to 25% (1 in 4) gradients, rather than width, and the locals take glee in ringing the police if they see one trying

“Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation capable of being moved." is what a caravan is according to the 1960 Caravan Act.

Thanks, Sutton Bank is a good example, no caravans but nothing about trailers, if the phrase "designed or adapted for human habitation" is the official definition then it does mean I'm towing a small caravan, not a trailer, and will keep away from busy roads with "No Caravan" signs when I'm towing, unless anybody knows anything else.

[Giles_M]

MustangGT said:

It looks like a small caravan to me.

The very nice people on the Corran Ferry only charged me the fare for a car and trailer which is £4 less than a car and caravan, so not everybody would agree.

[MightyBadger]

Giles_M said:

The very nice people on the Corran Ferry only charged me the fare for a car and trailer which is £4 less than a car and caravan, so not everybody would agree.

So you already knew the answer to the question in your thread title, which means this is the worst 'I have a new Defender with 400hp' thread ever!

[Zeeky]

For manadatory highway signs, for example, the one below or the ones restricting parking, I'd be treating it as a caravan. For everything else I'd be using my own judgement.

[Dave.]

E-bmw said:

pherlopolus said:

I know the road between Pickering and Thirsk (Sutton Bank) is "No Caravans" for a stretch due to 25% (1 in 4) gradients, rather than width, and the locals take glee in ringing the police if they see one trying

“Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation capable of being moved." is what a caravan is according to the 1960 Caravan Act.

I know Sutton bank well & have been up/down it several times in my motorhome, but I must now think again, as according to that definition I am driving a caravan & so am not allowed to.

I reckon the two bends on Sutton Bank are more of a obstacle to caravans than the actual incline. The hill on its own wouldn't be much of an issue with the level of power most cars have these days. Slow down to a crawl for those bends though and you're fked.

[Giles_M]

Zeeky said:

For manadatory highway signs, for example, the one below or the ones restricting parking, I'd be treating it as a caravan. For everything else I'd be using my own judgement.

That is what I would normally do, but was surprised that roads like Sutton Bank specifically say no caravans, but don't mention trailers which does seem a bit odd, I could legally tow a 3.5T trailer up and down that hill but not my 500kg caravan, I was wondering if Plod stopped me I could successfully argue it was a trailer not a caravan.

[MickyveloceClassic]

E-bmw said:

I know Sutton bank well & have been up/down it several times in my motorhome, but I must now think again, as according to that definition I am driving a caravan & so am not allowed to.

Sutton Bank has some straightforward signposted alternative routes.
There are several Caravans Prohibited signs on the A170 in the area, so whilst the OP would almost certainly not get stuck, were you to be involved in a collision within the restricted area, you may have a spot of unpleasantness with the local cops and your insurance company.

[OutInTheShed]

The thing with 'Trailers' is that it covers such a huge spectrum from a 250kg rated box trailer or dinghy trailer up to 3 tons or more.
Dial in different combinations of towing vehicles and it's hard to draw a line about where 'Trailers' need to be banned from.

Caravans OTOH tend to cover a smaller range and there's a long history of Mr and Mrs Suburban-Halfwit getting stuck.
I would expect the bans at places like Sutton Bank are a reaction to a history of incidents?

The OP may have a very powerful car and the lightest of caravans, but lines have to be drawn somewhere.


Some roads require huge caution with even a small light trailer, switchback hills are stressy.
Around Devon, DFLs with shiny JLR products are generally an inept nuisance without towing anything.

[Giles_M]

MickyveloceClassic said:

Sutton Bank has some straightforward signposted alternative routes.
There are several Caravans Prohibited signs on the A170 in the area, so whilst the OP would almost certainly not get stuck, were you to be involved in a collision within the restricted area, you may have a spot of unpleasantness with the local cops and your insurance company.

I agree, which is why I currently keep clear of busy roads with these restrictions, and from a few comments posted here it seems unlikely I can pretend to be towing a trailer as opposed to a caravan, I will have to continue with this approach.

[Giles_M]

MightyBadger said:

So you already knew the answer to the question in your thread title, which means this is the worst 'I have a new Defender with 400hp' thread ever!

Unfortunately the thoughts of the Corran Ferry Operators will probably not be my best legal defence if the worst happens, I was hoping to get some useful comments hence the reason for posting in this section, and a few comments, especially pherlopolus were very helpful. The reason for the comments about the car and engine power was to try to prevent somebody thinking I was a muppet for towing a big Caravan with an underpower and under weight car on narrow country lanes with steep hills.

[supersport]

pherlopolus said:

I know the road between Pickering and Thirsk (Sutton Bank) is "No Caravans" for a stretch due to 25% (1 in 4) gradients, rather than width, and the locals take glee in ringing the police if they see one trying

“Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation capable of being moved." is what a caravan is according to the 1960 Caravan Act.

That's because getting stuck behind one is a right pain in the arse, there's a hair pin at the bottom and large vans, trucks, buses at stupid caravans struggle and then you end up doing hill starts etc.