Force sale of Alpha Tauri?

[OnDaysLikeThese]

What do people think about making Red Bull sell Alpha Tauri?

No one else has a ‘B’ team and it wouldn’t be too much of a surprise if there’s knowledge transfer between them on the quiet - given limited testing time and budget.

Seems like it could have more impact than their relatively modest overspend the other year.

Wouldn’t it be more interesting for the sport to see a proper manufacturer take up the slot? Could side-step the concerns re: splitting the revenue the other teams have for Andretti…

[StevieBee]

They're two separate teams operating independently but with a common owner. 'B-Team' is an informal term used by the media and fans. The regulations limit the degree of cross-team operation and will be no different to that which exists between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo or Mercedes and McLaren.

I don't really see what problem would be solved by forcing Red Bull to sell Alpha Tauri.

[Megaflow]

OnDaysLikeThese said:

What do people think about making Red Bull sell Alpha Tauri?

No one else has a ‘B’ team and it wouldn’t be too much of a surprise if there’s knowledge transfer between them on the quiet - given limited testing time and budget.

Seems like it could have more impact than their relatively modest overspend the other year.

Wouldn’t it be more interesting for the sport to see a proper manufacturer take up the slot? Could side-step the concerns re: splitting the revenue the other teams have for Andretti…

Knowledge transfer on the quiet? They are both openly designed by Red Bull Technology. There is nothing quiet about it

[Sandpit Steve]

StevieBee said:

They're two separate teams operating independently but with a common owner. 'B-Team' is an informal term used by the media and fans. The regulations limit the degree of cross-team operation and will be no different to that which exists between Ferrari and Alfa Romeo or Mercedes and McLaren.

I don't really see what problem would be solved by forcing Red Bull to sell Alpha Tauri.

RB have already suggested that they will work more closely with AT from next season.

There’s some doubt as to whether this is a similar arrangement to Ferrari and Haas, with a one-way transfer of allowable technology - or a more tangled arrangement that sees parts bought and sold by both teams, with the unstated intention of sharing developments costs across two cost caps, and likely to generate a huge number of complaints from other competitors.

I have a feeling they’re trying to achieve the latter, in which case a forced sale might have to happen.

There’s also the background of a reorganisation of the Red Bull company, in the wake of the passing of Mr Mateschitz, and the second team really can’t be making them any more money than having one team does. Who’s buying Alpha Tauri clothes, anyone?

[skwdenyer]

The team’s getting rebranded for 2024 - as close to Res Bull as the regs will allow, apparently.

[StevieBee]

Sandpit Steve said:

There’s also the background of a reorganisation of the Red Bull company, in the wake of the passing of Mr Mateschitz, and the second team really can’t be making them any more money than having one team does. Who’s buying Alpha Tauri clothes, anyone?

Clothing.....Global sales of around £17m so in the scheme of things, not many. But as a wholly owned subsidiary of Red Bull, I would imagine they're using F1 as a means to build brand exposure around the world which will either be effective in boosting sales or make the brand more attractive to investors or to make it more appealing for acquisition. Thus the immediate need to turn a profit isn't as great as we may assume. My feeling is that if RB sell anything, the Alpha Tauri clothing arm will go before the F1 team, which, as an F1 team, should be operationally profitable and a handy platform to launch the next Red Bull brand without diluting the core brand.

[anonymous-user]

Megaflow said:

Knowledge transfer on the quiet? They are both openly designed by Red Bull Technology. There is nothing quiet about it

If there is knowledge transfer then they are doing a piss poor job as Red Bull are first with 782 points and Alpha Tauri are 8th with 21 points.

To be honest I don't understand how there can be such a difference between the teams.

[Megaflow]

Joey Deacon said:

If there is knowledge transfer then they are doing a piss poor job as Red Bull are first with 782 points and Alpha Tauri are 8th with 21 points.

To be honest I don't understand how there can be such a difference between the teams.

I suspect the knowledge transfer is only one way…

[vaud]

Joey Deacon said:

If there is knowledge transfer then they are doing a piss poor job as Red Bull are first with 782 points and Alpha Tauri are 8th with 21 points.

Quite. If they were 1/2 in the constructors then I could understand questions being raised.

Ferrari-Haas has a lot of customer parts but again, doesn't look like it is working for Haas.

[rdjohn]

I thought that Toro Rosso was a clear enough statement about ownership. Alpha Tauri much less so.

They are currently building a new engineering facility adjacent to Red Bull. That tells us a little more. In my world, things look fairly transparent.

Red Bull Racing are pretty good at driving a Coach and Horses hard up to the gate, checking the width, and then passing through with ease. I don't really have a problem with that.

The fact that they could get a $Billion + if they sell in a couple years, only goes to show just how smart they really are.

[Muzzer79]

Joey Deacon said:

Megaflow said:

Knowledge transfer on the quiet? They are both openly designed by Red Bull Technology. There is nothing quiet about it

If there is knowledge transfer then they are doing a piss poor job as Red Bull are first with 782 points and Alpha Tauri are 8th with 21 points.

To be honest I don't understand how there can be such a difference between the teams.

Alpha Tauri have been pretty independent these last few years under Franz Tost.

Next year’s plan to share as much with RBR as possible and create as much of a clone as they can represents a shift in strategy.

[StevieBee]

rdjohn said:

I thought that Toro Rosso was a clear enough statement about ownership. Alpha Tauri much less so.

They are currently building a new engineering facility adjacent to Red Bull. That tells us a little more. In my world, things look fairly transparent.

Red Bull Racing are pretty good at driving a Coach and Horses hard up to the gate, checking the width, and then passing through with ease. I don't really have a problem with that.

The fact that they could get a $Billion + if they sell in a couple years, only goes to show just how smart they really are.

And history dictates that the sharing of ideas, parts or even entire car designs rarely yields any significant change in the natural order of things. A few years back, Aguri Suzuki were using pretty much the same car as Honda yet were perennial back-markers.

The flip side is that F1 is primarily a Formula for the design and manufacture of specialist performance vehicles and a test between the competing teams to determine the best design. Too much sharing of ideas starts to chip away at the integrity of intent.