Diabetes will bankrupt the NHS
Discussion
Sunday afternoons I'm lazing in front of the computer reading obituaries and this one seems very pertnant.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2023/11/19/...
In 2016 he warned that “the NHS cannot cope with the current levels of diabetes and obesity and will be bankrupted by this in the future unless action is taken”.
In England in 1980 just six percent of men and eight per cent of women were obese; in 1986, as figures started to rocket, the government set a target to return to 1980 levels by 2005. Instead the problem got worse. In 2021-22, 25.9 per cent of adults were estimated to be obese. Data on children is even more alarming. In 2021-22, 38 per cent of children left state primary schools overweight or obese, significantly increasing their risk of one day developing chronic health problems.
That highlighted sentence is one I find absolutely staggering. Is there any way of improving things?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2023/11/19/...
In 2016 he warned that “the NHS cannot cope with the current levels of diabetes and obesity and will be bankrupted by this in the future unless action is taken”.
In England in 1980 just six percent of men and eight per cent of women were obese; in 1986, as figures started to rocket, the government set a target to return to 1980 levels by 2005. Instead the problem got worse. In 2021-22, 25.9 per cent of adults were estimated to be obese. Data on children is even more alarming. In 2021-22, 38 per cent of children left state primary schools overweight or obese, significantly increasing their risk of one day developing chronic health problems.
That highlighted sentence is one I find absolutely staggering. Is there any way of improving things?
g3org3y said:
loafer123 said:
Ozempic/Wegovy looks like it might save the day.
Licenced by NICE for use in the NHS for 2 years.Once it's stopped, the appetite returns and the weight is regained in most cases.
spikeyhead said:
That highlighted sentence is one I find absolutely staggering. Is there any way of improving things?
article said:
“The rubbish that people eat is atrocious and the manipulation of poor people is unspeakable,” James declared in 2013. “The agricultural production of excess fats and sugars has also been subsidised by governments for half a century to the tune of trillions of dollars... so that if you are poor you cannot afford many kinds of fruit and vegetables. And, as inequality increases, your primary drive is to get the cheapest calories possible and, currently, these are the foodstuffs with a high sugar and fat content.”
He's not wrong.'Big Food' have a lot to answer for. The poor are an easy target.
This is a great listen re their dodgy behaviours: https://www.jordanharbinger.com/marion-nestle-how-...
But people also need to take some responsibility. I see lots of obese patients on a daily basis. Given the affluent area in which I work, poverty is not the main driving force behind their food choices.
There are so, so many issues connected to obesity that are costing society massive amounts. From diabetes (medicine), heart disease (surgery), mental health and stroke.
Boris Johnson was briefly obsessed with it, lasted for about 5 minutes, and obviously anything that increases the cost of food is a trap for the poor.
parkrun is one thing that has probably done a small miracle for public health. Get people running, socialising and you can slightly ease the pressure on calorie control.
Boris Johnson was briefly obsessed with it, lasted for about 5 minutes, and obviously anything that increases the cost of food is a trap for the poor.
parkrun is one thing that has probably done a small miracle for public health. Get people running, socialising and you can slightly ease the pressure on calorie control.
spikeyhead said:
Sunday afternoons I'm lazing in front of the computer reading obituaries and this one seems very pertnant.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2023/11/19/...
In 2016 he warned that “the NHS cannot cope with the current levels of diabetes and obesity and will be bankrupted by this in the future unless action is taken”.
In England in 1980 just six percent of men and eight per cent of women were obese; in 1986, as figures started to rocket, the government set a target to return to 1980 levels by 2005. Instead the problem got worse. In 2021-22, 25.9 per cent of adults were estimated to be obese. Data on children is even more alarming. In 2021-22, 38 per cent of children left state primary schools overweight or obese, significantly increasing their risk of one day developing chronic health problems.
That highlighted sentence is one I find absolutely staggering. Is there any way of improving things?
Extend the sugar tax to all obesogenic processed foods? Or just ban them. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2023/11/19/...
In 2016 he warned that “the NHS cannot cope with the current levels of diabetes and obesity and will be bankrupted by this in the future unless action is taken”.
In England in 1980 just six percent of men and eight per cent of women were obese; in 1986, as figures started to rocket, the government set a target to return to 1980 levels by 2005. Instead the problem got worse. In 2021-22, 25.9 per cent of adults were estimated to be obese. Data on children is even more alarming. In 2021-22, 38 per cent of children left state primary schools overweight or obese, significantly increasing their risk of one day developing chronic health problems.
That highlighted sentence is one I find absolutely staggering. Is there any way of improving things?
I suppose there might be some stuff we could do about poverty and food deserts and so on, but that will take ages to have any impact.
loafer123 said:
g3org3y said:
loafer123 said:
Ozempic/Wegovy looks like it might save the day.
Licenced by NICE for use in the NHS for 2 years.Once it's stopped, the appetite returns and the weight is regained in most cases.
The GLP-1 agonists reduce the appetite by increasing satiety (and a side effect of increased nausea). They are supposed to be initiated alongside a program of legit healthy eating/physical activity. You might be eating fewer calories (great) and you may lose some weight (great), but you might still be eating rubbish (ultra processed foods) and continue to be metabolically unhealthy.
spikeyhead said:
38 per cent of children left state primary schools overweight or obese, significantly increasing their risk of one day developing chronic health problems.
Unless there are a few primary schools where every lesson is a pie-eating exam, I kind of think that's b
ks, or at least grossly misleading. Thinking of all the children in my son's primary school, and all of the primary age children I see around, a tiny number of them have noticeable weight problems, and this is in Glasgow where chips are known as a side salad.Must have been a large increase in the proportion of sugar and refined carbs eaten over the last fifty years though, if finger pointing is necessary. Secondary school children will happily quaff a half litre can of energy drink on the way to school, which won't be offset by exercise.
Evanivitch said:
parkrun is one thing that has probably done a small miracle for public health. Get people running, socialising and you can slightly ease the pressure on calorie control.
And 3 years ago it was decided that doing parkrun was too dangerous for your health, but deliveroo and just eat were essential businesses 
If anything is going to be done to improve things, it's not going to by those in charge of it all.
ScotHill said:
Unless there are a few primary schools where every lesson is a pie-eating exam, I kind of think that's bks, or at least grossly misleading. Thinking of all the children in my son's primary school, and all of the primary age children I see around, a tiny number of them have noticeable weight problems, and this is in Glasgow where chips are known as a side salad.
Must have been a large increase in the proportion of sugar and refined carbs eaten over the last fifty years though, if finger pointing is necessary. Secondary school children will happily quaff a half litre can of energy drink on the way to school, which won't be offset by exercise.
I think we've lost our frame of reference of what a healthy weight is for a child. Fat has been normalised throughout our society.ks, or at least grossly misleading. Thinking of all the children in my son's primary school, and all of the primary age children I see around, a tiny number of them have noticeable weight problems, and this is in Glasgow where chips are known as a side salad.Must have been a large increase in the proportion of sugar and refined carbs eaten over the last fifty years though, if finger pointing is necessary. Secondary school children will happily quaff a half litre can of energy drink on the way to school, which won't be offset by exercise.
E63eeeeee... said:
Extend the sugar tax to all obesogenic processed foods? Or just ban them.
I suppose there might be some stuff we could do about poverty and food deserts and so on, but that will take ages to have any impact.
There is no instantaneous solution that will put everything 'right'.I suppose there might be some stuff we could do about poverty and food deserts and so on, but that will take ages to have any impact.
Education might be the answer, but I somehow doubt it. Can anyone in the public eye mention obesity without generating waves of criticism on various social media platforms and risking their career? An accusation of fat-shaming can be a problem. It's lucky the campaigns to reduce road deaths caused by drink-driving didn't start in the era of social media. The tobacco companies put up a stalwart defense (thrusting money at people) against those who, quite rightly, highlighted the dangers of smoking. What chance now?
People will ignore facts that criticise their way of life. The harm alcohol does to the body and the mind have been known of for years, but does that stop anyone who only has a few drinks each week, and refuses to acknowledge the scientifically arrived at limits? Does that stop you?
Fast food tastes nice. It's a day out for many. In my town, the queue for the drive through for MacD's often blocks a roundabout on the main road through town.
Or, to put it another way, I have no idea how to reduce obesity. Nor, it appears, does anyone else. Don't forget, any solution will have to be palatable to those who eat fast foods and indulge in sugary substances. That's not to mention the bigger hurdle of those companies who fund them and various political parties and lobbyists.
There's something that happens way before (can be as much as 20 years before) diabetes manifests itself and that is insulin resistance. I tried to have a discussion with the phlebotomist at my surgery when I had my last lot of bloods taken for the cholesterol and Hba1c testing, I asked her to include a fasting insulin test as well and got a flat "no" and when asked why she said she'd never been asked by the doctors for that kind of test and said that she didn't know what it was anyway.
I did a lot of research into why my last tests in May were so bad with raised glucose and very high triglycerides and out of whack HDL and LDL. I concluded that I was insulin resistant, and had been for many years which explained how I had developed liver problems some 20 years ago and then went on to becoming Type 2 Diabetic in 2014. As a result of the research I embarked on a time restricted diet and after just 3 months my glucose was down to the pre-diabetic range and the cholesterol and triglycerides were in the normal range and liver readings were OK.
I don't think that GP's will do anything other than dish out the drugs like Metformin rather than catch this disease years earlier by testing for insulin resistance and explaining to the patient just what will happen if they carry on in the same old way.
I did a lot of research into why my last tests in May were so bad with raised glucose and very high triglycerides and out of whack HDL and LDL. I concluded that I was insulin resistant, and had been for many years which explained how I had developed liver problems some 20 years ago and then went on to becoming Type 2 Diabetic in 2014. As a result of the research I embarked on a time restricted diet and after just 3 months my glucose was down to the pre-diabetic range and the cholesterol and triglycerides were in the normal range and liver readings were OK.
I don't think that GP's will do anything other than dish out the drugs like Metformin rather than catch this disease years earlier by testing for insulin resistance and explaining to the patient just what will happen if they carry on in the same old way.
Derek Smith said:
There is no instantaneous solution that will put everything 'right'.
Education might be the answer, but I somehow doubt it. Can anyone in the public eye mention obesity without generating waves of criticism on various social media platforms and risking their career? An accusation of fat-shaming can be a problem. It's lucky the campaigns to reduce road deaths caused by drink-driving didn't start in the era of social media. The tobacco companies put up a stalwart defense (thrusting money at people) against those who, quite rightly, highlighted the dangers of smoking. What chance now?
People will ignore facts that criticise their way of life. The harm alcohol does to the body and the mind have been known of for years, but does that stop anyone who only has a few drinks each week, and refuses to acknowledge the scientifically arrived at limits? Does that stop you?
Fast food tastes nice. It's a day out for many. In my town, the queue for the drive through for MacD's often blocks a roundabout on the main road through town.
Or, to put it another way, I have no idea how to reduce obesity. Nor, it appears, does anyone else. Don't forget, any solution will have to be palatable to those who eat fast foods and indulge in sugary substances. That's not to mention the bigger hurdle of those companies who fund them and various political parties and lobbyists.
Given that nearly 75% of the adult population aren't obese it's safe to say it's not an impossible task and that despite everything the food industry is throwing at us the vast majority are managing to keep a reasonable grip on their waist line.Education might be the answer, but I somehow doubt it. Can anyone in the public eye mention obesity without generating waves of criticism on various social media platforms and risking their career? An accusation of fat-shaming can be a problem. It's lucky the campaigns to reduce road deaths caused by drink-driving didn't start in the era of social media. The tobacco companies put up a stalwart defense (thrusting money at people) against those who, quite rightly, highlighted the dangers of smoking. What chance now?
People will ignore facts that criticise their way of life. The harm alcohol does to the body and the mind have been known of for years, but does that stop anyone who only has a few drinks each week, and refuses to acknowledge the scientifically arrived at limits? Does that stop you?
Fast food tastes nice. It's a day out for many. In my town, the queue for the drive through for MacD's often blocks a roundabout on the main road through town.
Or, to put it another way, I have no idea how to reduce obesity. Nor, it appears, does anyone else. Don't forget, any solution will have to be palatable to those who eat fast foods and indulge in sugary substances. That's not to mention the bigger hurdle of those companies who fund them and various political parties and lobbyists.
So clearly there are plenty of good practice models out there, the sugar tax has done nothing other than increase the amount of industrialised lab derived food additives we're consuming, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that you shouldn't hydrate yourself with diet coke.
Wills2 said:
Given that nearly 75% of the adult population aren't obese it's safe to say it's not an impossible task and that despite everything the food industry is throwing at us the vast majority are managing to keep a reasonable grip on their waist line.
Obesity is the more extreme category of overweight.OHID said:
In 2021 to 2022, 63.8% of adults aged 18 years and over in England were estimated to be overweight or living with obesity. This was an increase from 2020 to 2021 (63.3%).
Wills2 said:
Derek Smith said:
There is no instantaneous solution that will put everything 'right'.
Education might be the answer, but I somehow doubt it. Can anyone in the public eye mention obesity without generating waves of criticism on various social media platforms and risking their career? An accusation of fat-shaming can be a problem. It's lucky the campaigns to reduce road deaths caused by drink-driving didn't start in the era of social media. The tobacco companies put up a stalwart defense (thrusting money at people) against those who, quite rightly, highlighted the dangers of smoking. What chance now?
People will ignore facts that criticise their way of life. The harm alcohol does to the body and the mind have been known of for years, but does that stop anyone who only has a few drinks each week, and refuses to acknowledge the scientifically arrived at limits? Does that stop you?
Fast food tastes nice. It's a day out for many. In my town, the queue for the drive through for MacD's often blocks a roundabout on the main road through town.
Or, to put it another way, I have no idea how to reduce obesity. Nor, it appears, does anyone else. Don't forget, any solution will have to be palatable to those who eat fast foods and indulge in sugary substances. That's not to mention the bigger hurdle of those companies who fund them and various political parties and lobbyists.
Given that nearly 75% of the adult population aren't obese it's safe to say it's not an impossible task and that despite everything the food industry is throwing at us the vast majority are managing to keep a reasonable grip on their waist line.Education might be the answer, but I somehow doubt it. Can anyone in the public eye mention obesity without generating waves of criticism on various social media platforms and risking their career? An accusation of fat-shaming can be a problem. It's lucky the campaigns to reduce road deaths caused by drink-driving didn't start in the era of social media. The tobacco companies put up a stalwart defense (thrusting money at people) against those who, quite rightly, highlighted the dangers of smoking. What chance now?
People will ignore facts that criticise their way of life. The harm alcohol does to the body and the mind have been known of for years, but does that stop anyone who only has a few drinks each week, and refuses to acknowledge the scientifically arrived at limits? Does that stop you?
Fast food tastes nice. It's a day out for many. In my town, the queue for the drive through for MacD's often blocks a roundabout on the main road through town.
Or, to put it another way, I have no idea how to reduce obesity. Nor, it appears, does anyone else. Don't forget, any solution will have to be palatable to those who eat fast foods and indulge in sugary substances. That's not to mention the bigger hurdle of those companies who fund them and various political parties and lobbyists.
So clearly there are plenty of good practice models out there, the sugar tax has done nothing other than increase the amount of industrialised lab derived food additives we're consuming, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that you shouldn't hydrate yourself with diet coke.
Even non rocket-scientists will have read about such problems with alcohol.
Do you think it is possible to reduce the costs, damage, injuries and abuse of alcohol abuse?
I am tee-total. The most difficult hurdle to overcome for those like me is the social pressure to drink. Not that difficult for me as I'm alcohol-intolerant, but for those merely avoiding it because of the harm it can, and probably will, cause it must be very difficult. I would assume there's considerable social pressure for children to conform as well, and Big Macs must be pushed to many by their peers.
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