My time has come... Speed Six sadness...
Discussion
After owning my 2000 Tuscan for just over 14 months, my time has come for the engine rebuild. It started idling ever slower to the point where it would frequently stall. It's now in at Henley Heritage, who have reported the worst. There is talk of worn valve guides, valve clearances out of adjustment, issues with the throttle bodies, and the compression test showing 4 cylinders in the red and 2 just outside.
The engine has had a previous rebuild at TVR Power under the previous owner. The service history is imprecise in terms of what was carried out (I'm trying to discover precisely what was done from TVR Power). Henley inform me it has new cam and finger followers, but does not appear to have had any valve work carried out - whether this was a cost-saving issue on the part of the previous owner, I don't know - if it ain't broken don't fix it maybe?
In a nutshell, I'm looking for some advice:
1. I have little engineering knowledge and am unsure what to ask to make sure I don't get unnecessary work done.
2. I only want to do this once (don't we all), so how do I best guarantee this. Who do I entrust the rebuild to:
a. Enginetech who are on site at Henley Heritage?
b. TVRCraft/AutoCraft with their redesigned components?
c. TVR Power?
d. TVR Engineering?
Anyone know what the differences are in the above options, that would help me make an educated decision?
Anyone have a rebuild by one of the above on the road? How was it for you?
Any help would be much appreciated.
BTW, Henley Heritage have approximated £5k for the rebuild less ~ £1k because I already have uprated cam and finger followers. Reasonable or not?
The engine has had a previous rebuild at TVR Power under the previous owner. The service history is imprecise in terms of what was carried out (I'm trying to discover precisely what was done from TVR Power). Henley inform me it has new cam and finger followers, but does not appear to have had any valve work carried out - whether this was a cost-saving issue on the part of the previous owner, I don't know - if it ain't broken don't fix it maybe?
In a nutshell, I'm looking for some advice:
1. I have little engineering knowledge and am unsure what to ask to make sure I don't get unnecessary work done.
2. I only want to do this once (don't we all), so how do I best guarantee this. Who do I entrust the rebuild to:
a. Enginetech who are on site at Henley Heritage?
b. TVRCraft/AutoCraft with their redesigned components?
c. TVR Power?
d. TVR Engineering?
Anyone know what the differences are in the above options, that would help me make an educated decision?
Anyone have a rebuild by one of the above on the road? How was it for you?
Any help would be much appreciated.
BTW, Henley Heritage have approximated £5k for the rebuild less ~ £1k because I already have uprated cam and finger followers. Reasonable or not?
Hi,
I am not sure if this was intentional, but the problems that have been reported such as valve clearances which need to be adjusted and wear etc, are probably so a certain extent symptoms of a lot of SP6 engines, whether they have problems with idling or not.
I am not in any way implying that this is the case, but it would be very easy to summarise how the Speed Six wears without even looking at it. The work would be beneficial, and would also mean £5k of business for the repairer.
Again, I stress I am in no position to comment on your case as not only have I not seen your car or spoken to the garage, furthermore I am not an engineer.
If it were me I would be tempted to get a second opinion. It may cost a little for the exploratory work, but may save thousands in the long run.
I am not sure if this was intentional, but the problems that have been reported such as valve clearances which need to be adjusted and wear etc, are probably so a certain extent symptoms of a lot of SP6 engines, whether they have problems with idling or not.
I am not in any way implying that this is the case, but it would be very easy to summarise how the Speed Six wears without even looking at it. The work would be beneficial, and would also mean £5k of business for the repairer.
Again, I stress I am in no position to comment on your case as not only have I not seen your car or spoken to the garage, furthermore I am not an engineer.
If it were me I would be tempted to get a second opinion. It may cost a little for the exploratory work, but may save thousands in the long run.
Worn valve guides sounds credible but needn't be spectacularly expensive. Low compression implies very worn bores and/or broken rings and/or leaking valves. We don't often hear of worn bores and it doesn't sound like normal wear and tear to me at that sort of mileage. If the bores are worn you could be looking at a full strip and rebuild which could get very expensive (in labour) very quickly. Valve clearances out of tolerance may mean that something has worn out of the normal range of adjustment ... or it could just be a sign that it is due for a service (which might also account for the other problems you mention). Problems with the throttle bodies sound very minor in the scheme of things. I guess it is just worn spindle bushes?
Based on what you've said so far it isn't clear what the scope of their proposed work is, and it isn't clear that the problems require £5k to correct. In your position I would most definitely get a second opinion before committing that sort of money, and I'd also want a proper explanation of what they think the problems are and exactly what they propose to do about it.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 6th September 00:14
Based on what you've said so far it isn't clear what the scope of their proposed work is, and it isn't clear that the problems require £5k to correct. In your position I would most definitely get a second opinion before committing that sort of money, and I'd also want a proper explanation of what they think the problems are and exactly what they propose to do about it.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 6th September 00:14
This sounds similar to whay happened with mine, and was down to streached valves/valve seats pulling into the cylinder head.Some of the valves were no longer closing properly which will cause compression loss & generally poor tickover,running & misfiring.
If the engine has already had camshaft & follower replacement and as long as there is no wear in these then you are looking at valves,valve seats & valve guides/seals.£4K seems a lot to do this I would give TVR Power a call.
If the engine has already had camshaft & follower replacement and as long as there is no wear in these then you are looking at valves,valve seats & valve guides/seals.£4K seems a lot to do this I would give TVR Power a call.
Have to agree with the others, you should DEFINITELY get a second opinion before handing over that amount of money! Because of the 'known issues' with the S6, its very easy for us to be 'scared' into having the work done without questioning it. If it were me, I'd ask TVR Power to take a look, as I'm sure they're busy enough without wanting extra work that doesn't need doing (IF that does turn out to be the case). 
Definitely get a second opinion.
If there were none of the other symptoms of engine issues (heavy tapping noises, blue smoke, bad running, heavy oil usage etc) then I definitely would not be paying out 5k without being sure.
Even if there are engine problems it is NOT always necessary to have a full rebuild.
I feel very strongly that some garages are taking advantage of the speed six situations to charge for a full rebuild when it is really not required.
Please keep us all informed of the outcome.
If there were none of the other symptoms of engine issues (heavy tapping noises, blue smoke, bad running, heavy oil usage etc) then I definitely would not be paying out 5k without being sure.
Even if there are engine problems it is NOT always necessary to have a full rebuild.
I feel very strongly that some garages are taking advantage of the speed six situations to charge for a full rebuild when it is really not required.
Please keep us all informed of the outcome.
Agree 100%. kipper_ said:
Definitely get a second opinion.
If there were none of the other symptoms of engine issues (heavy tapping noises, blue smoke, bad running, heavy oil usage etc) then I definitely would not be paying out 5k without being sure.
Even if there are engine problems it is NOT always necessary to have a full rebuild.
I feel very strongly that some garages are taking advantage of the speed six situations to charge for a full rebuild when it is really not required.
Please keep us all informed of the outcome.
As I mentioned above, I completely agree, I was trying to imply the same thing although what you put in says it in a much more 'realistic' way!
>> Edited by justinp1 on Tuesday 6th September 15:28
NCE 61 said:
This sounds similar to whay happened with mine, and was down to streached valves/valve seats pulling into the cylinder head.Some of the valves were no longer closing properly which will cause compression loss & generally poor tickover,running & misfiring.
If the engine has already had camshaft & follower replacement and as long as there is no wear in these then you are looking at valves,valve seats & valve guides/seals.£4K seems a lot to do this I would give TVR Power a call.
This has happened to mine, I had a rebuild at Power at the end of last year for worn followers. I took the car to HH in June for a service and because it was running bad and stalling, they told me it was the valves not closing properly, so would need another rebuild (under warrenty just), it has now been over 3 months and I think I will get the car back next week.
What mileage has it done since the first rebuild. Mine was rebuilt at just over 4,000 miles (under warranty) and then again at about 30,000 miles (paid for by me) due to worn valve guides – I had the same idling problems you describe prior to worn guides being diagnosed.
Depending on the severity of the wear it may be possible to adjust the valves to mask the problem until you can get it booked in for a rebuild – this is what I had done on mine. That way you won’t loose the car for months while it sits in a rebuild queue.
£4K seems very expensive if it’s just worn valve guides.
Depending on the severity of the wear it may be possible to adjust the valves to mask the problem until you can get it booked in for a rebuild – this is what I had done on mine. That way you won’t loose the car for months while it sits in a rebuild queue.
£4K seems very expensive if it’s just worn valve guides.
Problem is (and the techies on here know what I'm on about) the cascade effect, one failure leads to weakening of other components, which then lead to other components etc etc etc and so forth.
The heads are one big interconnected mechnical thingy-bobs, you get one thing done today to save a few pennies, rest-assured there'll be a time sooner or later you'll need to fix the next thing and so on.
Engine builders wont mind you taking this approach, they might get repeat custom from you
Remember, you get charged for:
* Engine Removal (in most cases)
* Strip Down
* Clean up
* Investigation
* Replace parts
* Close up
* Engine refitting
In the interests of good sleep and being a decent honest chap, would you tell the next buyer that the rebuild was a 'budget' rebuild just to get her running again? Exactly.
An engine rebuild stamped on the books is not enough to prove to the prospective buyer that the car is good and a sound purchase, this REALLY needs to be advertised more.
If you walk into ownership of a used Speed 6 engined car, IMO, you should have a copy of the worksheet listing the work done at rebuild time, be it under warranty or independant.
I personally would say, if you're like JustinBaker (another thread), then do what you want, you have the stomach for working on your own engine then fairplay to you, but if, you're like me and would rather pay someone else who knows what they're doing for the work, you might as well be able to sleep at night and get the whole thing done.
Obviously many wont agree with me, but I'm a firm believer of, if shes open, do as much as is possible, who cares if you're gone over-budget, I love my cars and would not go 'budget' on them at any time.
IMO, Melling + TVRCraft are the way forward, because they've engineered their own upgrade, which technically is solid. Also, pricing is similar to a regular rebuild offered by the other indies.
Goodluck with whatever you decide, I dont own a Speed 6, but as a fellow TVR nut and automotive enthusiast, I would suggest you do it 'all' in one go.
The heads are one big interconnected mechnical thingy-bobs, you get one thing done today to save a few pennies, rest-assured there'll be a time sooner or later you'll need to fix the next thing and so on.
Engine builders wont mind you taking this approach, they might get repeat custom from you
Remember, you get charged for:
* Engine Removal (in most cases)
* Strip Down
* Clean up
* Investigation
* Replace parts
* Close up
* Engine refitting
In the interests of good sleep and being a decent honest chap, would you tell the next buyer that the rebuild was a 'budget' rebuild just to get her running again? Exactly.
An engine rebuild stamped on the books is not enough to prove to the prospective buyer that the car is good and a sound purchase, this REALLY needs to be advertised more.
If you walk into ownership of a used Speed 6 engined car, IMO, you should have a copy of the worksheet listing the work done at rebuild time, be it under warranty or independant.
I personally would say, if you're like JustinBaker (another thread), then do what you want, you have the stomach for working on your own engine then fairplay to you, but if, you're like me and would rather pay someone else who knows what they're doing for the work, you might as well be able to sleep at night and get the whole thing done.
Obviously many wont agree with me, but I'm a firm believer of, if shes open, do as much as is possible, who cares if you're gone over-budget, I love my cars and would not go 'budget' on them at any time.
IMO, Melling + TVRCraft are the way forward, because they've engineered their own upgrade, which technically is solid. Also, pricing is similar to a regular rebuild offered by the other indies.
Goodluck with whatever you decide, I dont own a Speed 6, but as a fellow TVR nut and automotive enthusiast, I would suggest you do it 'all' in one go.
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