BMW C1 & Helmets

[Fer]

Quick question - on my commute today I saw two of these, and one driven by someone with no lid. Have they finally decided that you do not need a helmet, or was the rider just chancing their arm?

[pesty]

last I heard is that one bloke who kept taking it to court lost his case. the bike is still classed a motorbike and helmets still needed.

Its proibably the same bloke he did seem to be a little obsessed.

Pity really because that bike would be a really good way of comuting around a city if you could just jump on it without all the hastle.

[IaHa]

Section 16 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 allows the Secretary of State for Transport to make regulations requiring persons driving or riding (otherwise than in sidecars) on motor cycles to wear protective headgear. Currently, the regulations are the Motor Cycle (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998, which state:
Every person driving or riding on a motor bicycle (other than in a sidecar) on a road-
(a) must wear protective headgear…..

"Motor bicycle"
Means a two-wheeled motor cycle with or without a sidecar attached thereto or not. If the distance between the wheels is less than 460mm, then they shall be counted as one wheel. The BMW - C1 (a recent innovation) which is a motor bicycle where the windscreen extends into a roof which continues behind the rider to form a kind of open sided enclosure of the rider is still a motor bicycle and the Ministry of Transport maintain that there is still a requirement to wear a protective helmet when riding these machines. This view has been confirmed by the High Court on an appeal by the Director of Public Prosecutions in the case of Parker on 7th May 2004 ie there IS a requirement to wear a protective helmet when riding a BMW - C1.

[Joe911]

pesty said:

last I heard is that one bloke who kept taking it to court lost his case. the bike is still classed a motorbike and helmets still needed. Its proibably the same bloke he did seem to be a little obsessed. Pity really because that bike would be a really good way of comuting around a city if you could just jump on it without all the hastle.

How much hassle is it exacly to wear a helmet?
It's a much bigger hassle to dress properly (i.e. leathers) for a bike - the number of kids I see in London riding scooters etc in shorts or a suit and regular shoes (or even with a skimiply dressed girl on the back) - it makes my flesh creep.

I understood that almost everywhere in the world allowed the C1 to be used without a helmet, except the UK - which makes you wonder who actually thought about it (and tested it) and who just said no regardless. The UK is a ferkin' nanny (Nazi) state and going to the dogs more every day - but that's a different rant entirely

>> Edited by Joe911 on Tuesday 6th September 09:27

[john57]

You do have to wear a helmet when riding one of these things ..... the C1 riders tried - and failed.

The argument in court was apparently that our law states you wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle / scooter. The BMW riders claimed it was meant for when you were 'on' a bike but that with the BMW C1 you were 'in' it and strapped in therefore the law didn't apply.

Whatever you think we are apparently the only country in Europe that insists on a helmet being worn with these things!

Personally it will never be a problem for me as I hate them !!!

[Fer]

Thanks for the replies. I must admit it felt strange, seeing this young lady without a lid, when I was sat in my Westfield, wearing one.

[pesty]

Joe911 said:

How much hassle is it exacly to wear a helmet? It's a much bigger hassle to dress properly (i.e. leathers)

To put a helmet on and off is no hassle at all, it takes seconds but thats not the hassle Im talking about.

when you take it off you then have your hair squashed flat on your head like some kind of hippy from the sixites can't imagine any City Businesmen jumping off one of those and going streight into the board room.

The government should put there hand on their sacks and find their balls and allow the bike to be riden as it was meant which is as you say is sans helmet

[Joe911]

pesty said:

when you take it off you then have your hair squashed flat on your head like some kind of hippy from the sixites can't imagine any City Businesmen jumping off one of those and going streight into the board room.

I guess we've got different hair styles then
(or different priorities)

I actually used to motorbike to meetings in London occasionally and turned up to meet board-level people in the leathers (with white shirt and tie) - at no time was the reception poor - in fact it raised quite a bit of interest as there are a lot of keen bikers in the City.

[BliarOut]

I believe BMW designed it to be worn without a helmet and in a crash, the rider is more likely to be injured if he IS wearing one.

This could be drivel, but that's what I heard.

[puggit]

BliarOut said:

I believe BMW designed it to be worn without a helmet and in a crash, the rider is more likely to be injured if he IS wearing one. This could be drivel, but that's what I heard.

That's what I understood too, that there is a fundamental danger from wearing a helmut in one of these contraptions.

[catso]

I think the claim is that because you are held in place by the belts, if you crash and it falls over the weight of the helmet pulls on your neck, causing greater injuries than if not wearing a helmet.

If I rode one I wouldn't wear a helmet but, on the other hand I'd never ride one.

[Joe911]

catso said:

I think the claim is that because you are held in place by the belts, if you crash and it falls over the weight of the helmet pulls on your neck, causing greater injuries than if not wearing a helmet.

I would have thought the arguments about the weight of the helmet are true whenever they are worn (and in cars) - but the benefits outweight the problems - like with seatbelts.

[telecat]

Not really an Issue as BMW dropped the C1 awhile ago.

[Balmoral Green]

telecat said:

Not really an Issue as BMW dropped the C1 awhile ago.

Thats right, and as they also bought back all those they sold and crushed them, its really not relevant is it.

[BliarOut]

Balmoral Green said:

telecat said: Not really an Issue as BMW dropped the C1 awhile ago. Thats right, and as they also bought back all those they sold and crushed them, its really not relevant is it.

Not quite all of them.... I see one on my way to work every day.

[Balmoral Green]

I was being sarcastic

[rsvmilly]

UK Department for Transport Road Safety said:

MOTORCYCLE HELMETS - BMWC1 The BMWC1 is a motorcycle produced by BMW which they claim does not require the wearing of a helmet. It is a motorcycle in the sense of two wheels and controls. But has certain features similar to a car. It has a seatbelt, and it has a roof. The rider is effectively within a cage. A number of European countries have allowed a derogation from helmet wearing. We and Sweden, the two countries with the best road safety records, have not. VSE were not satisfied that the testing undertaken by BMW justified the claims and were in a dialogue with BMW about further testing. However, BMW withdrew from that dialogue and we understand are to cease production of the model. But there are other similar vehicles coming onto the market. Certain BMWC1 owners have been riding without helmets. Bedfordshire police lost a case heard at a Magistrates court. The case hinged upon interpretation of the Motor Cycle (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998. Regulation 4 applies the compulsory wearing of helmets when driving or riding "on" a motor bicycle. The challenge, which was upheld by the magistrates, is that the rider is "in" the vehicle, and so does not require a helmet. However this ruling has since been overturned following a CPS appeal. The position remains, therefore, that riders of these vehicles must wear safety helmets.

As has been said, the additional weight of the helmet on a restrained rider puts huge forces on the rider's neck in the event of a collision. In a car, the movement of the head is generally controlled by an airbag. Imagine no airbags AND a heavier head - serious neck injury.

[BliarOut]

Balmoral Green said:

I was being sarcastic

Double

[catso]

rsvmilly said:

Imagine no airbags AND a heavier head - serious neck injury.

Hence the advent of the Hans device in F1 and other motorsport to help prevent basular (sp?) skull fracture (combined momentum of unrestrained head and Helmet detaching head from restrained body in a crash).

In a conventional Bike crash a rider hitting the road is unrestrained so the helmet doesn't 'pull' his head off and even if it could the risk is far less than mashing yer' brains on the tarmac.

Maybe these BMW 'bikes' need a Hans device?

>> Edited by catso on Tuesday 6th September 22:45