An experienced ear required - Please help??
Discussion
Hi guys, wonder if anyone in the bristol (or surrounding area) can help.
My car has generated an unwanted noise for some time now, and the noise, though not as loud as it is now, was present at my last annual service in March and didnt cause concern for the boys at TVR bodyshop...
Now however it seems to be much louder, it is a mettallic ticking sound that is not unlike tappet noise but its more distinct/mettalic and is coming from the N/S rear of the engine... the noise can be heard right through the rev range butdoesnt get louder, and also heard inside the car with the windows shut. The oil level is good and still clean, oil pressure good, and there is no loss of performance. There is no smell of exhaust fumes as if there were a crack in the manifold.
If i check outside the car, the noise is most prominent at the N/S front wheel arch
I am thinking of laying the car up soon for winter and would like an opinion on the possible nature of this noise as i want it fixed next service... and need to anticipate the costr of engine work. I would be eternally grateful if anybody with extensive RV8 knowledge could lend an ear... I will come to you if you are local to Bristol, and it would also be good to have a chinwag with a fellow Tiv owner.
I was hoping to go to the haynes charity trackday in October but am now a little worried about the significance of the noise.
Thanks in advance guys.
Shorty :D
My car has generated an unwanted noise for some time now, and the noise, though not as loud as it is now, was present at my last annual service in March and didnt cause concern for the boys at TVR bodyshop...
Now however it seems to be much louder, it is a mettallic ticking sound that is not unlike tappet noise but its more distinct/mettalic and is coming from the N/S rear of the engine... the noise can be heard right through the rev range butdoesnt get louder, and also heard inside the car with the windows shut. The oil level is good and still clean, oil pressure good, and there is no loss of performance. There is no smell of exhaust fumes as if there were a crack in the manifold.
If i check outside the car, the noise is most prominent at the N/S front wheel arch
I am thinking of laying the car up soon for winter and would like an opinion on the possible nature of this noise as i want it fixed next service... and need to anticipate the costr of engine work. I would be eternally grateful if anybody with extensive RV8 knowledge could lend an ear... I will come to you if you are local to Bristol, and it would also be good to have a chinwag with a fellow Tiv owner.
I was hoping to go to the haynes charity trackday in October but am now a little worried about the significance of the noise.
Thanks in advance guys.
Shorty :D
chassis 33 said:
Sounds very much like it could be a leaky exhaust gastket...TADTS!!!
Good news, if it is parts are cheap
Bad news, its a right bugger to get to especially the rear cylinders, but it is do-able with patience. There was a thread on it about a fortnght ago.
Regards
Iain
Thanks Ian, it would be good to qualify that diagnosis so i have an idea of costs and timescale... and maybe find someone who can do the job other than dealer service.
Anybody??
I'd tend to agree with Chassis33. Mine had exactly the same noise as yours and it turned out to be a cracked manifold on the passenger side bank. A very common problem with them.
I had no smell of exhaust gasses etc, just a very annoying ticking sound.
You may be lucky and find it's just the gasket but I'd get both checked out.
I had no smell of exhaust gasses etc, just a very annoying ticking sound.
You may be lucky and find it's just the gasket but I'd get both checked out.
tvrbob said:
Sounds very much like it could be a leaky exhaust gastket...TADTS!!!
Agreed. I have this sound on mine. I'm going to take the opportunity to exchange the manifolds for ACT units with the pre-cats removed.
Bob, how much are you expecting to pay for the ACT units? sounds like a sensible time to do this if this is the problem.
shorty123 said:
chassis 33 said:
Sounds very much like it could be a leaky exhaust gastket...TADTS!!!
Agreed. I have this sound on mine. I'm going to take the opportunity to exchange the manifolds for ACT units with the pre-cats removed.
Bob, how much are you expecting to pay for the ACT units? sounds like a sensible time to do this if this is the problem.
I had mine replaced with ACT de-cats and IIRC they were around £540 for the pair. A very good deal when you consider that std replacement maifolds are around £450 plus VAT EACH
zippee said:
shorty123 said:
tvrbob said:
chassis 33 said:
Sounds very much like it could be a leaky exhaust gastket...TADTS!!!
Agreed. I have this sound on mine. I'm going to take the opportunity to exchange the manifolds for ACT units with the pre-cats removed.
Was that stainless polished or mild steel? TA
Bob, how much are you expecting to pay for the ACT units? sounds like a sensible time to do this if this is the problem.
I had mine replaced with ACT de-cats and IIRC they were around £540 for the pair. A very good deal when you consider that std replacement maifolds are around £450 plus VAT EACH
Was that stainless polished or mild steel? TA
>> Edited by shorty123 on Tuesday 6th September 11:35
Yep. Either gaskets or manifolds (they always go where the four pipes join together). Sometime they can be welded, but that won't last as long as new ones.
Tim at ACT is very helpful, but does have a lead time if he hasn't got any on the shelf. Zippee's price is about right ex-VAT.
The decatted ones are cheaper because they are made without cats. To cat them they then need cutting, cats adding and re-welding.
Edited to refer to the right person
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Tuesday 6th September 12:28
Tim at ACT is very helpful, but does have a lead time if he hasn't got any on the shelf. Zippee's price is about right ex-VAT.
The decatted ones are cheaper because they are made without cats. To cat them they then need cutting, cats adding and re-welding.
Edited to refer to the right person
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Tuesday 6th September 12:28
V8 Archie said:
Yep. Either gaskets or manifolds (they always go where the four pipes join together). Sometime they can be welded, but that won't last as long as new ones.
Tim at ACT is very helpful, but does have a lead time if he hasn't got any on the shelf. Bobs price is about right ex-VAT.
The decatted ones are cheaper because they are made without cats. To cat them they then need cutting, cats adding and re-welding.
Cool i'll give em a ring, get em in and have them fitted at or just before next service.
The ACT items look trick too, any performance benefits?
shorty123 said:
Bob, how much are you expecting to pay for the ACT units? sounds like a sensible time to do this if this is the problem.
I was told these were exchange parts costing £100. One of the NETVRCC bods has just completed this job and £100 was what he paid plus a few pound for gaskets.
Edited to include:
I've just confirmed the price for exchange de-catted and sleeved units. £195+vat + £12 carriage for the pair.
>> Edited by tvrbob on Tuesday 6th September 13:00
Hi, I live in Bath so might be able to help/ lend an ear!
My first Griff made this noise and it turned out to be the exhaust manifold gaskets - a very common problem and hopefully what you have. Unless you have lots of money or are after freeer flowing cats/more shiny bits, you don't need new manifolds, just gaskets (hopefully!).
There are lots of makes of gaskets about, but I got a thicker, high spec set from wedge automotive (now called RT Racing) for not a lot of cash mail order.
As the engine heats up, the metal gaskets expands and makes the gap either bigger or smaller depending on where it is. So, the ticking can change in volume depending upon throttle position and engine temp.
There is a chap in Bath who did mine. He fixes a lot of TIVs in the area and is very good mechanic indeed. His name is Gary at Bath Parformance Cars, near Sainsburys on the Lower Bristol road.
Karl
My first Griff made this noise and it turned out to be the exhaust manifold gaskets - a very common problem and hopefully what you have. Unless you have lots of money or are after freeer flowing cats/more shiny bits, you don't need new manifolds, just gaskets (hopefully!).
There are lots of makes of gaskets about, but I got a thicker, high spec set from wedge automotive (now called RT Racing) for not a lot of cash mail order.
As the engine heats up, the metal gaskets expands and makes the gap either bigger or smaller depending on where it is. So, the ticking can change in volume depending upon throttle position and engine temp.
There is a chap in Bath who did mine. He fixes a lot of TIVs in the area and is very good mechanic indeed. His name is Gary at Bath Parformance Cars, near Sainsburys on the Lower Bristol road.
Karl
I had a similar noise, had to replace both manifolds.
Use a tube stick it to your ear and press the other end against each exhaust outlet, then listen. Also listen to the noise at the collector (4 pipes meet into one). You should be able to tell where the noise is coming from.
In my case it was both sides at the collectors.
So I changed them to the ACT manifolds which are half the price. There was a delay of about 4 weeks for the manifolds but I understand that this was due to holiday season. I don't know what it is normally.
Dave
Use a tube stick it to your ear and press the other end against each exhaust outlet, then listen. Also listen to the noise at the collector (4 pipes meet into one). You should be able to tell where the noise is coming from.
In my case it was both sides at the collectors.
So I changed them to the ACT manifolds which are half the price. There was a delay of about 4 weeks for the manifolds but I understand that this was due to holiday season. I don't know what it is normally.
Dave
Thanks guys for all the help, tonight i had a good listen, it defo seems to be the NS manifold and there was also a faint smell of hot exhaust, no obvious cracks though. so i guess thats good news?!?
Anyhoo i think i will buy the ACT units next month and get em fitted after christmas, it may be time to put the car away.
Ta again guys
Anyhoo i think i will buy the ACT units next month and get em fitted after christmas, it may be time to put the car away.
Ta again guys
parrot of doom said:
Have you tried disconnecting each cylinder in turn to eliminate the noise?
Agree with all of the above and good idea to isolate the HT lead on each cylinder in turn and listen for a change in sound which would tend to confirm the exhaust leak theory which is most likely (but bear in mind that the whole manifold is pressurised to by each cylinder firing also). Equally if it is the exhaust it should get louder under load and stop on the over-run so blipping the throttle should be informative.
Shorty you said the sound doesn't change much in character with different engine speeds , does that mean also when under load and off load, if so you might have a valve gear problem - in particular the steel pads can come off the rockers on the valve stem end and cause ticking from the top end (it is a recognised vulnerability). Stethoscope, steel bar / extension bar held on the rocker cover and to the ear will help identify noises.
I had the exhaust manifold leak earlier this year at the junction of the 4 pipes at the collector but was able to open up the collector and MIG weld it all up with no further probs.
tahiti450 said:
Have you tried disconnecting each cylinder in turn to eliminate the noise?
Agree with all of the above and good idea to isolate the HT lead on each cylinder in turn and listen for a change in sound which would tend to confirm the exhaust leak theory which is most likely (but bear in mind that the whole manifold is pressurised to by each cylinder firing also). Equally if it is the exhaust it should get louder under load and stop on the over-run so blipping the throttle should be informative.
Shorty you said the sound doesn't change much in character with different engine speeds , does that mean also when under load and off load, if so you might have a valve gear problem - in particular the steel pads can come off the rockers on the valve stem end and cause ticking from the top end (it is a recognised vulnerability). Stethoscope, steel bar / extension bar held on the rocker cover and to the ear will help identify noises.
I had the exhaust manifold leak earlier this year at the junction of the 4 pipes at the collector but was able to open up the collector and MIG weld it all up with no further probs.
I notice the sound from cold at low to medium revs most, anything above 3k is hard to hear due to the engine/exhaust note. The noise quietens down somewhat (but not much) when the engine is warm. Also i can smell exhaust fumes when i get my head right down near the rocker cover.
Hope its not valve gear, seems to point towards exhaust.
Shorty
shorty123 said:
parrot of doom said:
Have you tried disconnecting each cylinder in turn to eliminate the noise?
Agree with all of the above and good idea to isolate the HT lead on each cylinder in turn and listen for a change in sound which would tend to confirm the exhaust leak theory which is most likely (but bear in mind that the whole manifold is pressurised to by each cylinder firing also). Equally if it is the exhaust it should get louder under load and stop on the over-run so blipping the throttle should be informative.
Shorty you said the sound doesn't change much in character with different engine speeds , does that mean also when under load and off load, if so you might have a valve gear problem - in particular the steel pads can come off the rockers on the valve stem end and cause ticking from the top end (it is a recognised vulnerability). Stethoscope, steel bar / extension bar held on the rocker cover and to the ear will help identify noises.
I had the exhaust manifold leak earlier this year at the junction of the 4 pipes at the collector but was able to open up the collector and MIG weld it all up with no further probs.
I notice the sound worst from cold at low to medium revs most, anything above 3k is hard to hear due to the engine/exhaust note. The noise quietens down somewhat (but not much) when the engine is warm. Also i can smell exhaust fumes when i get my head right down near the rocker cover.
could imply broken gasket expansion at higher temps maybe.
Hope its not valve gear, seems to point towards exhaust.
Shorty
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