School buses

[hunton69]

In 2009 it became illegal for children to stand on a home to school bus.

This practice however still goes on as some operators are registering the school route as a registered bus route so they can sell more passes than there are seats. This now means some children must stand as they don’t have a seat. These buses will not pick up anyone else up you must have a pass which is sold prior to the parents.
Registered bus routes still allow children to stand on a bus.

I would have thought that this loop hole is illegal as the service is still a home to school service.

Schools don’t seam to care and I’ve been told the local county council are ok with this practice.
What was the point of changing the law in 2009 as it’s pointless.

I’m interested in opinions or if anyone has an expert knowledge.

Edited by hunton69 on Sunday 10th December 18:38

[Pica-Pica]

hunton69 said:

In 2009 it became illegal for children to stand on a home to school bus.

This practice however still goes on as some operators are registering the school route as a registered bus route. These buses will not pick up anyone else up you must have a pass which is sold prior to the parents.
Registered bus routes still allow children to stand on a bus.

I would have thought that this loop hole is illegal as the service is still a home to school service.

Schools don’t seam to care and I’ve been told the local county council are ok with this practice.
What was the point of changing the law in 2009 as it’s pointless.

I’m interested in opinions or if anyone has an expert knowledge.

Once out of the school gate, I would argue that it is not their responsibility, schools can’t be responsible for everything (some parents seem to think so). I would not say schools ‘don’t seem to care’; i would suggest it is just that they can neither influence, monitor, nor have the responsibility of the bus journey.

If a teenager stands to let an elderly person have a seat (yes, it still happens), what is the driver to do?

[ScoobyChris]

Are they standing because buses are over subscribed? Where I live, they apparently limit the number of seats per route and you apply for a “seat” each year. Our son says he never has to stand and drivers are quite hot at checking passes (at least until they’re not )

Chris

[ScoobyChris]

Pica-Pica said:

If a teenager stands to let an elderly person have a seat (yes, it still happens), what is the driver to do?

My assumption is he is talking about the school children only buses - shouldn’t be any elderly people on them!!

Chris

[Super Sonic]

Pica-Pica said:

If a teenager stands to let an elderly person have a seat (yes, it still happens), what is the driver to do?

No elderly persons will be getting on the bus.

[hunton69]

The county council installed the bus lane which only serves this school.
There are teachers who control the area these are school buses the operator has registered them just to get around the 2009 law change.

I always thought that the responsibility does stop as they leave the school gates.

If you get out of a cab and immediately get hurt you can claim of the cab driver as there responsibility dies stop the second you get out.

[Caddyshack]

Kids should be reminded to sit down and taught why by parents. The bus company can only do so much and kids can be quick to spout their rights to a bud driver.

[hunton69]

ScoobyChris said:

Are they standing because buses are over subscribed? Where I live, they apparently limit the number of seats per route and you apply for a “seat” each year. Our son says he never has to stand and drivers are quite hot at checking passes (at least until they’re not )

Chris

They’re standing because the bus operator wants to make as much money as possible as the parents pay for the service.
The bus has 40 seats but they can sell 60

They also have a double decker which works the same way.

[hunton69]

Caddyshack said:

Kids should be reminded to sit down and taught why by parents. The bus company can only do so much and kids can be quick to spout their rights to a bud driver.

I’m not sure I explained it correctly they stand because they have to not because they want to.
40 seat bus 60 kids.

This as I said is now illegal

[Caddyshack]

hunton69 said:

Caddyshack said:

Kids should be reminded to sit down and taught why by parents. The bus company can only do so much and kids can be quick to spout their rights to a bud driver.

I’m not sure I explained it correctly they stand because they have to not because they want to.
40 seat bus 60 kids.

This as I said is now illegal

Sorry, got that wrong.

Then it should be formal complaints to the operator and regulator I guess. I understand that it is a tough business to make money at so they are probably reluctant to lay on extra transport.

[blueST]

hunton69 said:

Caddyshack said:

Kids should be reminded to sit down and taught why by parents. The bus company can only do so much and kids can be quick to spout their rights to a bud driver.

I’m not sure I explained it correctly they stand because they have to not because they want to.
40 seat bus 60 kids.

This as I said is now illegal

You could try contacting the Office of the Traffic Commissioner for your area. They are responsible for ensuring bus and truck operators are held to account if they operate in breach of law, their license etc. They have a lot of power over the operating companies. They might be interested if they feel the bus company is not properly following the rules. I would write to them being very specific about the bus operating company, the nature of the problem, days, times etc when the issue arises. However if the issue is a genuine loophole, then there may not be much to be done in the short term, but worth rating it as common practise.

[Vasco]

You need to double check. You say that the bus company has registered it - in which case ordinary passengers (and standing) should be allowed.

You then say that the driver will only allow those with passes.

I'm guessing that the driver *will* allow on board any ordinary passenger who just wishes to pay, it's just that he usually only gets the school kids.

Ask the bus company to explain if necessary.

[hunton69]

Vasco said:

You need to double check. You say that the bus company has registered it - in which case ordinary passengers (and standing) should be allowed.

You then say that the driver will only allow those with passes.

I'm guessing that the driver *will* allow on board any ordinary passenger who just wishes to pay, it's just that he usually only gets the school kids.

Ask the bus company to explain if necessary.

They have registered it to allow the kids to stand but no one else is allowed onboard.
A member of the public has no idea it’s a registered bus as there are no signs and no makings on the bus and a different colour.

Even if they did the driver wouldn’t let anyone on with a pass which the driver does not sell.

[Vasco]

hunton69 said:

Vasco said:

You need to double check. You say that the bus company has registered it - in which case ordinary passengers (and standing) should be allowed.

You then say that the driver will only allow those with passes.

I'm guessing that the driver *will* allow on board any ordinary passenger who just wishes to pay, it's just that he usually only gets the school kids.

Ask the bus company to explain if necessary.

They have registered it to allow the kids to stand but no one else is allowed onboard.
A member of the public has no idea it’s a registered bus as there are no signs and no makings on the bus and a different colour.

Even if they did the driver wouldn’t let anyone on with a pass which the driver does not sell.

Sounds wrong. Check with the Traffic Commissioner (above).

[NFT]

48k said:

I never knew this was a law. So a kid is breaking the law by standing on a school bus on their way to/from school, but could go in to town on a Saturday and stand on the bus and not break the law?

I think its a kids made to stand due to bus being too small for the contract with schools law/problem, makes me wonder why schools haven't noticed lack of seats and put a stop to it though.

[48k]

hunton69 said:

In 2009 it became illegal for children to stand on a home to school bus.

I never knew this was a law. Have you got a link to the legislation? So a kid is breaking the law by standing on a school bus on their way to/from school, but could go in to town on a Saturday and stand on the bus and not break the law?

[hunton69]

48k said:

I never knew this was a law. Have you got a link to the legislation? So a kid is breaking the law by standing on a school bus on their way to/from school, but could go in to town on a Saturday and stand on the bus and not break the law?

I have no idea how to do that on my phone.
If you google can children stand on a school bus there’s loads of information.

I wouldn’t say the children are breaking the law the operator must make sure each child has a seat.

Yes you’re correct on a standard bus going into town they can.

That is why some operators are registering their home to school bus services as a registered bus service.

It makes a mockery of the 2009 change

[Vasco]

hunton69 said:

48k said:

I never knew this was a law. Have you got a link to the legislation? So a kid is breaking the law by standing on a school bus on their way to/from school, but could go in to town on a Saturday and stand on the bus and not break the law?

I have no idea how to do that on my phone.
If you google can children stand on a school bus there’s loads of information.

I wouldn’t say the children are breaking the law the operator must make sure each child has a seat.

Yes you’re correct on a standard bus going into town they can.

That is why some operators are registering their home to school bus services as a registered bus service.

It makes a mockery of the 2009 change

I still believe that something is wrong with all this, it doesn't sound right and I'm not aware of it being a general issue.
This may be a small independent bus operator, in just a small local area. It won't be one of the major operators.

[hunton69]

Vasco said:

I still believe that something is wrong with all this, it doesn't sound right and I'm not aware of it being a general issue.
This may be a small independent bus operator, in just a small local area. It won't be one of the major operators.

Last week I spoke to someone from a coach trade body who admitted it does happen.

I am sure it is the minority of operators but it does happen.

I have an issue with the school which is one of the best state schools in this area they do not care and they told me the two county councils (schools on a boarder) have vetted the businesses.

The reason there allowing it is due to money that the parents pay.

[48k]

hunton69 said:

48k said:

I never knew this was a law. Have you got a link to the legislation? So a kid is breaking the law by standing on a school bus on their way to/from school, but could go in to town on a Saturday and stand on the bus and not break the law?

I have no idea how to do that on my phone.
If you google can children stand on a school bus there’s loads of information.

I wouldn’t say the children are breaking the law the operator must make sure each child has a seat.

Yes you’re correct on a standard bus going into town they can.

That is why some operators are registering their home to school bus services as a registered bus service.

It makes a mockery of the 2009 change

There are lots of things that come up on Google, for example an end to "3 on 2" seating in Northern Ireland, but nothing I can find that is a specific law in England and seeing as you stated it is illegal for children to stand on a school bus and mentioned a 2009 change to the law I was hoping you'd be able to link the legislation so that I could have a gander and try and figure out what loophole the bus company might be using.