Vintage Rolex Explorer 1016 -where to get an honest price?

[GuigiaroBertone]

Posting under a new profile because I'm paranoid!


A relative has inherited a vintage Rolex explorer. To be specific it looks like a late 1960s Rolex Explorer I ref.1016 Mark 2

As a watch nerd I've been sent a few pictures- but we haven't been able to take the bracelet off to check the serial number. However I knew the original owner and I know for certain it is a one owner genuine model, purchased for a couple of hundred £ when he was in the Royal Navy.

On the downside, the box and papers are currently missing, plus the watch is engraved with the owners name on the back of the case.

The relative has no interest in keeping it as they have no interest in watches and need to split the proceeds with their sibling. As it looks like a very rare Rolex I have recommended they do not just take it to a high street Rolex AD for a value- I'd worry they would be taken advantage of.

I already know first hand about buying and selling Rolexes online via Watchfinder, Watchmaster, Blowers, Chrono24 etc, but this seems to be quite specialist.

Once we have the serial number, what next? Who can we trust to give my relatives a fair price?

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Wednesday 13th December 14:09

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Wednesday 13th December 16:10

[gregs656]

A reputable auction house would be a good place to start.

There are lots of these around so you could also research and see what they have been selling for.

[GuigiaroBertone]

Good idea thanks, but which ones are reputable- for vintage Rolexes?

What are their fees? Does my relative end up giving some podgy pretend toff with a pinkie ring & garish second hand Savile row suit 25% fo rnot really doing very much?

What’s to stop it becoming like one of my eBay auctions where I seem to end up selling things worth hundreds for mere pounds.

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Wednesday 13th December 14:10

[GCH]

You could try HQmilton or Tropical Watch (owned by one of the former parters of HQMilton), or 10pastTen. They are all in the US but that shouldn't be that much of an issue, and they are all highly respected dealers of vintage rolex. You need the serial numbers though. You'll more than likely get far more from them than any auction house once they take their hefty cut, and less hassle.

Edited by GCH on Tuesday 12th December 23:17

[gregs656]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Good ide thanks, but which ones are reputable- for vintage Rolexes?

What are their fees? Does my relative end up giving some podgy pretend toff with a pinkie ring & garish second hand Savile row suit 25% fo rnot really doing very much?

What’s to stop it becoming like one of my eBay auctions where I seem to end up selling things worth hundreds for mere pounds.

Edited by GuigiaroBertone on Tuesday 12th December 22:12

Christie’s, southebys and Phillips are the major players I think.

Watchcollecting you could list it your self.

How ever you sell it you’re probably going to take a hit on the retail value because you’re not a retailer of vintage watches and that goes a long way in that world. Getting it into a major auction gives it a lot of exposure.

I’d also research vintage dealers and see what comes up. Eric Wind (Wind Vintage) is a well know person for example.

[GuigiaroBertone]

I've contacted Christies and one of the US based experts. There is interest form the latter, but they want more photos and a serial number, which I'll work on getting.

For a faster & perhaps more tangible/physical valuation is it worth my relative making an appointment to take it into the local AD?

Is there even a minimal risk with an AD that they could take it out the back of the shop for an inspection and remove the dial- which is where the value really is? Also a risk they would convince my relative to part with it on the spot for a lower than market value? e.g. I've seen Porsche OPC do this with wheels and I have no reason to automatically trust what is a glorified high street jeweller.

I know a Rolex AD *should* be reputable, but at the end of the day the typical AD retail worker is just an individual with a meagre basic income. Trust needs to be earned and ADs aren't necessarily known for looking after the customer's best interests.

[Mercdriver]

Take care with auction house I was charged ten percent of watch value for insuring the watch while they had it. It used to cost me a tenner on my house insurance for the year.

Never again!

[Gladers01]

GuigiaroBertone said:

I've contacted Christies and one of the US based experts. There is interest form the latter, but they want more photos and a serial number, which I'll work on getting.

For a faster & perhaps more tangible/physical valuation is it worth my relative making an appointment to take it into the local AD?

Is there even a minimal risk with an AD that they could take it out the back of the shop for an inspection and remove the dial- which is where the value really is? Also a risk they would convince my relative to part with it on the spot for a lower than market value? e.g. I've seen Porsche OPC do this with wheels and I have no reason to automatically trust what is a glorified high street jeweller.

I know a Rolex AD *should* be reputable, but at the end of the day the typical AD retail worker is just an individual with a meagre basic income. Trust needs to be earned and ADs aren't necessarily known for looking after the customer's best interests.

Find out the serial number first so it can be dated accurately and then comparing like for like check the prices on eBay as a guideline, then decide whether to sell privately or to sell via a dealer. Have always found Watchfinder to be good, they usually have an expert on hand to authenticate the watch rather than dealing with a sales person only

[Mr Pointy]

Try Miltons or the Old Watch Shop - both are highly reputable:

https://www.miltonsjewellers.com/
http://www.theoldwatchshop.com/

[gregs656]

GuigiaroBertone said:

For a faster & perhaps more tangible/physical valuation is it worth my relative making an appointment to take it into the local AD?

Research it your self - there is a liquid market for these. They were in production for a long time, they are popular, there is lots written about the nuances over the production run.

[GuigiaroBertone]

gregs656 said:

Research it your self - there is a liquid market for these. They were in production for a long time, they are popular, there is lots written about the nuances over the production run.

Believe me- I've gone deep into the 1016 rabbit warren over the past 24hrs and know all the matte dial variations throughout production.The mk2 dial is apparently one of most attractive dials and also the rarest- being made in only within the year 1969.

Because it's so rare it's hard to pin down a value. It seems to be a "what the buyer is prepared to pay" scenario. I've had one response from a dealer saying that whilst the mk2 is very nice, but the market does not distinguish based on this- only on condition. They would say that wouldn't they?

Then I see other dealers advertising slightly less desirable mk I "frogfoot" dial models at double the price of the most common mark III, IV and V dials.

So I now have a decent idea of what a dealer will advertise it for but no idea what they are prepared to pay- or who I can trust. As mentioned- the whole object here is to get my relative the best deal possible without being taken advantage of by a dealer/auctioneer.

[Mr Pointy]

Miltons will look at your watch if you send them pictures:

https://www.miltonaires.com/selling-us-a-watch

[Maxf]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Believe me- I've gone deep into the 1016 rabbit warren over the past 24hrs and know all the matte dial variations throughout production.The mk2 dial is apparently one of most attractive dials and also the rarest- being made in only within the year 1969.

Because it's so rare it's hard to pin down a value. It seems to be a "what the buyer is prepared to pay" scenario. I've had one response from a dealer saying that whilst the mk2 is very nice, but the market does not distinguish based on this- only on condition. They would say that wouldn't they?

Then I see other dealers advertising slightly less desirable mk I "frogfoot" dial models at double the price of the most common mark III, IV and V dials.

I think the dealer probably isn’t too far from the truth - unless it’s a gilt dial or space dweller, anybody other than a hardcore completist would probably be more interested in the condition of the watch (and dial) and year of manufacture.

I bought a frogfoot earlier in the year - no papers and paid about £11k I think (I actually returned it as the crown was a bit wonky) - that’s was from watchfinder. Subdial have a 1979 full set for sale currently. I believe they will do commission sales.

[gregs656]

GuigiaroBertone said:

Because it's so rare it's hard to pin down a value. It seems to be a "what the buyer is prepared to pay" scenario. I've had one response from a dealer saying that whilst the mk2 is very nice, but the market does not distinguish based on this- only on condition. They would say that wouldn't they?

Explore past auction catalogues etc

Condition is king for vintage. It makes sense because the ones in pristine condition are the rarest now even if they were produced in large numbers at the time.

[Tabs]

Have a look on hodinkee.com
A 1016 sold on the Japanese Market, and called a Space Dweller has just sold for $190,500 in New York.