Advice needed: Engine went within 6 months of purchase
Discussion
I purchased a 2017 1.4 TFSI A1, 6 June 2023 from Wimbledon Audi with 1 year extended warranty.
The mileage was around 23,500.
It had a cambelt done at 22,900 in Feb 2023
It had a service down at 23,300 min April 2023
All the work was done by themselves.
I had no issues with the car until 1 December when the engine suddenly cut out, and it wouldn’t start again. Mileage was clocked at 24,900.
Called Audi Assist and the AA technician stated it was the cambelt and that it needed to be towed to a garage.
The workshop at Wimbledon Audi are currently going through renovations and couldn’t accept the car, so after calling around I managed to book it in to Coulsdon Audi for 21 December, who are under the same franchise ownership.
They got back to me this week and stated that they couldn’t get the car to start, and couldn’t diagnose the fault without stripping the engine.
The only thing he said was it didn’t appear to be the cambelt as it was still intact and that the problem seemed to be no compression going through the cylinders.
He said 5 hours of labour was needed to strip the engine just to diagnose the fault alone and this was quoted at around £1200.
The problem is, he couldn’t guarantee that whatever the problem is, would be covered under the extended warranty. So I could be liable for this.
I only had the car for 6 months and driven it less than 1500 miles when it broke down.
It fell within the 6 months under the Consumer Rights Act, so I understand that the onus is on them to prove there were no issues when the car was sold?
Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar experience or whether any advice can be given as to the best route to take at this point as I’m currently stuck in limbo.
I tried to speak to sales guy I purchased the car from, but he’s currently on leave until Jan 3.
The mileage was around 23,500.
It had a cambelt done at 22,900 in Feb 2023
It had a service down at 23,300 min April 2023
All the work was done by themselves.
I had no issues with the car until 1 December when the engine suddenly cut out, and it wouldn’t start again. Mileage was clocked at 24,900.
Called Audi Assist and the AA technician stated it was the cambelt and that it needed to be towed to a garage.
The workshop at Wimbledon Audi are currently going through renovations and couldn’t accept the car, so after calling around I managed to book it in to Coulsdon Audi for 21 December, who are under the same franchise ownership.
They got back to me this week and stated that they couldn’t get the car to start, and couldn’t diagnose the fault without stripping the engine.
The only thing he said was it didn’t appear to be the cambelt as it was still intact and that the problem seemed to be no compression going through the cylinders.
He said 5 hours of labour was needed to strip the engine just to diagnose the fault alone and this was quoted at around £1200.
The problem is, he couldn’t guarantee that whatever the problem is, would be covered under the extended warranty. So I could be liable for this.
I only had the car for 6 months and driven it less than 1500 miles when it broke down.
It fell within the 6 months under the Consumer Rights Act, so I understand that the onus is on them to prove there were no issues when the car was sold?
Just wanted to see if anyone has had a similar experience or whether any advice can be given as to the best route to take at this point as I’m currently stuck in limbo.
I tried to speak to sales guy I purchased the car from, but he’s currently on leave until Jan 3.
Why the cambelt change so soon at just 22k miles ? is Audi service spec 6 year's time, or mileage dependent?
This 'got to strip the motor for diagnostics' line doesn't sound very enlightened. Did they actually do a compression test or leakdown test before the 'no compression' diagnosis.
could it be a snapped camshaft,, or tensioner failure so the cam timing has jumped?
any problems in this area within 1500 miles of a timing belt change points to either pre-exisiting problems or a sub standard parts and/or fitting.
irrespective, surely this is a warranty repair?
Ok this might help:
Advice as Suggested on another forum:
Advice as Suggested on another forum:
said:
If when you lift the bonnet you see an oil fiter top left front of the engine(above alternator) and turbo near the front of the car then it is the old EA111 cam chain engine
If the oil filter is at the bottom of the engine and the turbo/exhaust is between the engine and the bulkhead then it's the later EA211 cam belt engine
The cam belt change interval is 5 years or 120,000 miles whichever come first. The belt should also be checked every 20,000 miles from 60,000 onwards for wear/damage and replaced if needed.
If the oil filter is at the bottom of the engine and the turbo/exhaust is between the engine and the bulkhead then it's the later EA211 cam belt engine
The cam belt change interval is 5 years or 120,000 miles whichever come first. The belt should also be checked every 20,000 miles from 60,000 onwards for wear/damage and replaced if needed.
Have you reported all this to the selling dealer? If you are claiming it was sold with an inherent fault then you should be dealing directly with them, the fact they haven't got a working service dept is IMO immaterial.
It seems you have gone down the warranty route and are effectively absolving the selling dealer from any involvement or responsibility so you are on the hook for any costs up to the point it becomes a valid warranty claim.
I would go back to the selling dealer and assuming they are in the loop expect them to authorise the investigation costs but suspect you are on the hook for the investigation costs.
It seems you have gone down the warranty route and are effectively absolving the selling dealer from any involvement or responsibility so you are on the hook for any costs up to the point it becomes a valid warranty claim.
I would go back to the selling dealer and assuming they are in the loop expect them to authorise the investigation costs but suspect you are on the hook for the investigation costs.
I thought Audi extended warranty was per the standard 3 year warranty so any mechanical fault that isn't caused by wear and tear was covered? I say this as my sister bought an A3 that had it, there was a fault with the satnav/head unit etc lots of diagnosis and eventually new unit supplied and fitted, total cost was £3k plus.
Leasenewbie123 said:
If you’ve only had it 6 months and it was bought with a one year AUC warranty you shouldn’t be paying anything plus you should have an Audi provided courtesy car.
The AUC warranty is typically an insurance policy where the policy holder has to demonstrate a valid claim at their cost but when proven the warranty picks up the investigation costs so there is an element of risk. This is different to a new car warranty.Tyrell Corp said:
Why the cambelt change so soon at just 22k miles ? is Audi service spec 6 year's time, or mileage dependent?
This 'got to strip the motor for diagnostics' line doesn't sound very enlightened. Did they actually do a compression test or leakdown test before the 'no compression' diagnosis.
could it be a snapped camshaft,, or tensioner failure so the cam timing has jumped?
any problems in this area within 1500 miles of a timing belt change points to either pre-exisiting problems or a sub standard parts and/or fitting.
irrespective, surely this is a warranty repair?
Before purchasing the car, the salesman showed me the car's full service history, of which I have printouts of. This 'got to strip the motor for diagnostics' line doesn't sound very enlightened. Did they actually do a compression test or leakdown test before the 'no compression' diagnosis.
could it be a snapped camshaft,, or tensioner failure so the cam timing has jumped?
any problems in this area within 1500 miles of a timing belt change points to either pre-exisiting problems or a sub standard parts and/or fitting.
irrespective, surely this is a warranty repair?
He mentioned that the car had the cambelt changed at 22,958 in Feb 2023. Reason being is since they're a main dealer, before they can put any cars onto the forecourt, they have to check for any necessary work. Given that the Audi recommended interval for a cambelt change is 5 years, they had to do it.
Just to clarify, toothed belt is the cam belt right?
The Service Advisor originally called me on 22nd December to tell me they had looked at the car. Couldn't start it, and that the cambelt seemed intact. I believe she did mention that they did a compression test and that no compression was going through any of the cylinders, and at this stage the only way to determine the fault was to strip the engine.
When I asked if it would be covered under warranty she stated that is should because when she spoke with the technician, they couldn't see how I could have affected the fault.
So the car was booked in for the second week of January to have the engine stripped and diagnosed.
Today however, I received a call from another guy, who confirmed what the Service Advisor said, but also stated that he couldn’t guarantee that after stripping the engine that the fault would be covered by the warranty.
As it stands, the car is still booked in for the second week of Jan to get the engine stripped. Although he will wait for me to confirm before they go ahead.
I will probably have to speak to him again to see exactly what tests were done to the car as I was at work earlier and couldn't speak for long.
Leasenewbie123 said:
If you’ve only had it 6 months and it was bought with a one year AUC warranty you shouldn’t be paying anything plus you should have an Audi provided courtesy car.
Audi Assist did arrange a courtesy car through Enterprise, problem is the guy is saying he can't guarantee the fault would be covered by warrantyFMOB said:
Have you reported all this to the selling dealer? If you are claiming it was sold with an inherent fault then you should be dealing directly with them, the fact they haven't got a working service dept is IMO immaterial.
It seems you have gone down the warranty route and are effectively absolving the selling dealer from any involvement or responsibility so you are on the hook for any costs up to the point it becomes a valid warranty claim.
I would go back to the selling dealer and assuming they are in the loop expect them to authorise the investigation costs but suspect you are on the hook for the investigation costs.
When the car broke down on December 1st, I called the supplying dealer and he said they couldn’t take the car in because their workshop is currently under renovations (I believe this is true, as when I spoke to someone at Audi UK, they did mention this as well.)It seems you have gone down the warranty route and are effectively absolving the selling dealer from any involvement or responsibility so you are on the hook for any costs up to the point it becomes a valid warranty claim.
I would go back to the selling dealer and assuming they are in the loop expect them to authorise the investigation costs but suspect you are on the hook for the investigation costs.
He instead gave me 2 other dealerships close by that I could I try since they were all under the Marshall Motor Group.
So car was booked in to a sister dealership.
Car was booked in for December 21st and on the 22nd, I was told the engine needed to be stripped and that the work would be covered under warranty.
It was then booked in for the second week of January.
Today however, another guy called me up to say that after stripping the engine, he can't guarantee the fault would be covered by warranty.
So as things stand, the car is still booked in for next week, but he will confirm with me before going ahead.
Called the supplying dealer to try and speak to the guy who sold me the car, unfortunately he's off until January 3rd. The guy I spoke to instead suggested I speak with someone in his service department since they only dealt with sales. He then proceeded to transfer me to whom I thought was their own service department, only to find out it was the Audi UK Central Service bookings office.
Will either call in again tomorrow, or make the 1 hour drive to speak with a manager.
So the problem I have is, I don’t want to tell the sister dealership to strip the engine only to find out that it’s not covered by warranty, yet the supplying dealer is unable to take the car in because their workshop is under renovation.
So, is the best option at this point to just claim under the CRA?
This whole saga beggars belief. You buy a low mileage approved used Audi which has a major engine fault and you are left scrabbling around with some doubt as to whether it’s covered.
A brief check from the ECU will presumably establish whether you overrevved it or something. If not, then it’s a fault with the car and the warranty co needs to sort it.
Strongly worded letter to dealer, copied to Audi UK then go to the press if no joy.
A brief check from the ECU will presumably establish whether you overrevved it or something. If not, then it’s a fault with the car and the warranty co needs to sort it.
Strongly worded letter to dealer, copied to Audi UK then go to the press if no joy.
danipannn said:
I believe she did mention that they did a compression test and that no compression was going through any of the cylinders, and at this stage the only way to determine the fault was to strip the engine.
.
"No compression was going through any of the cylinders".
I'll leave this here for discussion. Custard.
t situation, but I’d probably just let them crack on.I'd want some sort of written initial diagnostics report rather than just hearsay relayed between technician and receptionist.
"Your" problem here is that you'll soon be presented with a useless car in lots of bits, and with a big bill for diagnostics including storage, irrespective of whether they can even fix it.
Don't know Audis but Cambelts (the fat toothed belt yes) generally needs careful tensioning with special tools, some engines are 'interference' ; if the belt slips a tooth/few teeth you get some bent intake and/or exhaust valves, possible piston crown damage but other motors have more generous clearances.
This could be the difference between just retiming /tensioning the cambelt, or cylinder head off and replacing valves etc.
Imagine getting a cambelt failure on your own car within 6 month/1500 miles of a main dealer replacement -or even on a new car? Unthinkable even on a race tuned engine.
I suspect someone has dropped the ball here, and they want you to pick it up.
Also what if they find a belt tensioner loose- are they going to 'fess up to their mistake?
Don't be a pussy here or they will try to dodge their responsibility.
My experience of VW Group is they’re always hesitant about extended warranty coverage as VW are pretty harsh - I think the dealer has to make the decision and then hope VW will cover it.
In practice, with VW, SEAT and Skoda in the family we’ve never had something not be covered, although the SEAT dealer is notable for saying no in the first instance, then backing down. But that’s the same dealer who ‘forgot’ to apply a 5yr warranty to the car when new, knew about but didn’t tell us and kept the money.
In the OPs case I’d be trying to get hold of the Audi brand manager / director at the dealer group level.
In practice, with VW, SEAT and Skoda in the family we’ve never had something not be covered, although the SEAT dealer is notable for saying no in the first instance, then backing down. But that’s the same dealer who ‘forgot’ to apply a 5yr warranty to the car when new, knew about but didn’t tell us and kept the money.
In the OPs case I’d be trying to get hold of the Audi brand manager / director at the dealer group level.
Skyedriver said:
danipannn said:
I believe she did mention that they did a compression test and that no compression was going through any of the cylinders, and at this stage the only way to determine the fault was to strip the engine.
.
"No compression was going through any of the cylinders".
I'll leave this here for discussion. Custard.
My brother for instance has no clue, just gets in and drives, yet is a very clever man in his own "accademic" field.
Might be wrong tho
I had a recent pre-existing issue in a used approved I had only recently bought. Not an engine failure but something I was being advised was approx 5k worth of fix.
Local main dealer advised not covered by warranty. Went back to the seller dealer who got it rectified, advising they had more motivation to argue the warranty claim as i was their customer. No idea if it went through warranty or they just footed the bill.
Not sure if it was what helped, but that angered me somewhat, as the idea was I would use the local main dealer for any servicing, fixes or warranty items. So I firmly but respectfully gave them two options - get it fixed or I would be happy to accept a full refund of the purchase price so I could buy an alternative elsewhere.
My first warranty claim ever, but taught me they basically do not want to do the work / want you to pay for it, and will push back as far as they can or you allow
Local main dealer advised not covered by warranty. Went back to the seller dealer who got it rectified, advising they had more motivation to argue the warranty claim as i was their customer. No idea if it went through warranty or they just footed the bill.
Not sure if it was what helped, but that angered me somewhat, as the idea was I would use the local main dealer for any servicing, fixes or warranty items. So I firmly but respectfully gave them two options - get it fixed or I would be happy to accept a full refund of the purchase price so I could buy an alternative elsewhere.
My first warranty claim ever, but taught me they basically do not want to do the work / want you to pay for it, and will push back as far as they can or you allow
I had a similar problem with my BMW 530d bought from a main dealer which, after about 2 months of driving needed a new engine due to big end failure. I initially used a local dealer (the dealer I got the car from was the other side of London) who said pretty much the same to me as you’re being told. I contacted the supplying dealer who recovered the car and did the diagnosis, again with the same caveat.
It seems they are all trained to cover themselves no matter what the circumstance. In your case I would suggest that if the fault is not covered by the warranty it will be covered by the Sale of Goods Act so either way you’re not liable. The only problem is getting a service minion to acknowledge this. As previously advised I’d be talking to the Service Manager as a minimum (in my case I had to go through the General Sales Manager because sales would have to ‘pay’ for the repair if not covered by warranty - internal accounting).
Follow up every telephone conversation by email confirming what was said / agreed; you may need it later.
In my case, once I’d begun talking to people with the appropriate authority common sense prevailed and the work done without protest. I now have a new engine.
It seems they are all trained to cover themselves no matter what the circumstance. In your case I would suggest that if the fault is not covered by the warranty it will be covered by the Sale of Goods Act so either way you’re not liable. The only problem is getting a service minion to acknowledge this. As previously advised I’d be talking to the Service Manager as a minimum (in my case I had to go through the General Sales Manager because sales would have to ‘pay’ for the repair if not covered by warranty - internal accounting).
Follow up every telephone conversation by email confirming what was said / agreed; you may need it later.
In my case, once I’d begun talking to people with the appropriate authority common sense prevailed and the work done without protest. I now have a new engine.
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