Stupidity of Surrey Police: Part II
Discussion
Accident on A3 Sunday evening between Oxshott and Hook.
Positive: sign on northbound carriageway before M25 saying "A3 closed after A244".
Slight negative: if they'd said "A244 (Oxshott)" we'd have known where they meant and more of us might have left the A3 at Cobham.
But much worse...
Problem: Very long jam on A3 northbound between Cobham and Oxshott junctions - close to an hour just to get off at the A244 (Oxshott) junction.
Exacerbation: Despite the off clip road at the A244 having two lanes, the police force three lanes of traffic to merge into one lane about 50 yards before the junction, right before it widens to two lanes againn on the slip road. Talk about creating a bottleneck!
Oh well, at least there was some sort of advance warning. Can't remember the vast number of times police have only been at the point of a road closure and have put up no signs anywhere to discourage traffic from heading towards that point... but most of my experiences with that have been with the Met.
Positive: sign on northbound carriageway before M25 saying "A3 closed after A244".
Slight negative: if they'd said "A244 (Oxshott)" we'd have known where they meant and more of us might have left the A3 at Cobham.
But much worse...
Problem: Very long jam on A3 northbound between Cobham and Oxshott junctions - close to an hour just to get off at the A244 (Oxshott) junction.
Exacerbation: Despite the off clip road at the A244 having two lanes, the police force three lanes of traffic to merge into one lane about 50 yards before the junction, right before it widens to two lanes againn on the slip road. Talk about creating a bottleneck!
Oh well, at least there was some sort of advance warning. Can't remember the vast number of times police have only been at the point of a road closure and have put up no signs anywhere to discourage traffic from heading towards that point... but most of my experiences with that have been with the Met.
You'll find the reason there is often no warning of closures before they happen is because there simply isn't anyone to do it or they are at the actual scene of the incident ! In time Highways people come out with signs but ..... it does take time.
.... more trafpol, less cameras spring to mind but I would say that as it's what I do......
One example that completely frustrated me was about a year ago just near the same spot of the accident you refer to when I had to deal with a 3 car serious accident which blocked the A3 northbound at Hook. The scene had to be preserved as it was looking like a fatal, we had to get people warned that the A3 was shut, close 3 slip roads and get Surrey to put in a total closure at Esher to stop people getting completely stuck. All the cars and lorries stuck 'in the middle' had to be turned around and taken the wrong way up the A3 to the last exit. To add to matters the Air Ambulance was going to land on the A3 itself as there was nowhere else. That required a temporary closure of the carraigeway in the other direction as well whilst it landed (people look at the helicopter and then crash into each other!).
To do all this I had 2 traffic cars + me ...... it was impossible and though we did our best I still got a complaint about the congestion and lack of warnings. I can understand normal drivers getting frustrated and I've sat in many a jam caused by accidents. The frustrating bit was the only complaint was from another police officer (off duty) who should have had a bit more of an understanding ..... no one else at all complained once they could see what we were dealing with.
I can't answer for why they closed the road down to one lane by the off slip as I wasn't there ...... it is possible that the closure was not put in by police - we only do a temporary one pending the arrival of the Highways companies with a lorry and lots of cones and signs.... a long 'ish closure like the one you mention would be handled by them after an initial closure by police.
Ultimately though, the slip would be totally clogged very quickly, as the 2 lanes only lead to a roundabout so letting 2 or 1 lane run into the slip wouldn't have made much difference in the long run.
The local radio said that numerous people were trapped in cars at this accident and two air ambulances were on scene so I guess it was not a pretty sight !
>> Edited by john57 on Wednesday 7th September 12:41
.... more trafpol, less cameras spring to mind but I would say that as it's what I do......
One example that completely frustrated me was about a year ago just near the same spot of the accident you refer to when I had to deal with a 3 car serious accident which blocked the A3 northbound at Hook. The scene had to be preserved as it was looking like a fatal, we had to get people warned that the A3 was shut, close 3 slip roads and get Surrey to put in a total closure at Esher to stop people getting completely stuck. All the cars and lorries stuck 'in the middle' had to be turned around and taken the wrong way up the A3 to the last exit. To add to matters the Air Ambulance was going to land on the A3 itself as there was nowhere else. That required a temporary closure of the carraigeway in the other direction as well whilst it landed (people look at the helicopter and then crash into each other!).
To do all this I had 2 traffic cars + me ...... it was impossible and though we did our best I still got a complaint about the congestion and lack of warnings. I can understand normal drivers getting frustrated and I've sat in many a jam caused by accidents. The frustrating bit was the only complaint was from another police officer (off duty) who should have had a bit more of an understanding ..... no one else at all complained once they could see what we were dealing with.
I can't answer for why they closed the road down to one lane by the off slip as I wasn't there ...... it is possible that the closure was not put in by police - we only do a temporary one pending the arrival of the Highways companies with a lorry and lots of cones and signs.... a long 'ish closure like the one you mention would be handled by them after an initial closure by police.
Ultimately though, the slip would be totally clogged very quickly, as the 2 lanes only lead to a roundabout so letting 2 or 1 lane run into the slip wouldn't have made much difference in the long run.
The local radio said that numerous people were trapped in cars at this accident and two air ambulances were on scene so I guess it was not a pretty sight !
>> Edited by john57 on Wednesday 7th September 12:41
Yes, it did sound like a nasty one. Sorry if it sounds like a whinge with a lack of understanding. My points were quite specific though.
The sign warning us before we reached the M25 was electronic - it wouldn't have taken more manpower to have added the extra word.
The slip with the coned area leading to it was manned by two policemen and their traffic car. They were the ones who had control over forcing everyone into one lane.
As for the two lanes leading to a roundabout, thus causing congestion at that point, that ought to be quite easy to solve: force the left lane to turn left at the roundabout and force the right lane to turn right or return down the A3 - that way nobody would be trying to merge lanes on the roundabout.
When I mention no advance warning from the Met, that has been on occasions (in central London) when there have been a LOT of policemen on the scene directing traffic away from the closed road but none at all a few hundred yards away to discourage traffic from going to clog the area up further.
Thanks for your response though; clearly under-manning can be an issue. I too would be happier seeing more policemen out on the roads (and streets) and fewer filling in forms, as well as fewer automated criminalisation machines.
The sign warning us before we reached the M25 was electronic - it wouldn't have taken more manpower to have added the extra word.
The slip with the coned area leading to it was manned by two policemen and their traffic car. They were the ones who had control over forcing everyone into one lane.
As for the two lanes leading to a roundabout, thus causing congestion at that point, that ought to be quite easy to solve: force the left lane to turn left at the roundabout and force the right lane to turn right or return down the A3 - that way nobody would be trying to merge lanes on the roundabout.
When I mention no advance warning from the Met, that has been on occasions (in central London) when there have been a LOT of policemen on the scene directing traffic away from the closed road but none at all a few hundred yards away to discourage traffic from going to clog the area up further.
Thanks for your response though; clearly under-manning can be an issue. I too would be happier seeing more policemen out on the roads (and streets) and fewer filling in forms, as well as fewer automated criminalisation machines.
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