Mediation - Child Custody/Time
Discussion
Hi all, I just wondered if anyone had first hand experience of using mediators to assist in the custody of a child with an ex partner. How did it go? Was it costly? Were they any good?
I'll try and keep it brief but here is the background, I'll try and keep it brief.
Daughter is over 10 and me and her mother have been separated for 10 years. Both moved on, she is married. I have been with my partner a similar length of time and have two children (6/2). My ex chose to move back home (Gloucestershire) as her mum offered £100k towards a house if she moved back, making my daughter 120 miles away.
First year we made this work fairly well, then when old enough my daughter would come to me every other weekend from early Saturday to Sunday evening. When my second child was born, my ex waited until she was about 8-10 weeks old and then e-mailed me to say she was no longer taking responsibility of the driving meaning I spent the last 6 years covering 500 miles every weekend I had my eldest, pick up on a Friday evening and drop off on a Sunday evening. Coincidentally my ex moved back to Gloucestershire when my eldest was a similar age, certainly a coincidence. Anyway.
Fast forward to September this year and we have relocated, my middle one changed schools and we moved to a property walking distance from my eldest. No more 5 hour round trips, reduction in cost of fuel and wear and tear on the car.
Since my ex caught wind of our move, she badgered me to know where it was, I was told by her and husband it was, 'mind games' not telling them. It was simply none of their business until my move went through. Since that point my ex has been making my eldest feel very very uneasy over it. To the extent my daughter now lies to avoid any kind of interaction, even bringing things home from my house makes her uneasy. Perish the thought we have to pick up a different pair of shoes from her mums, my daughter goes into a panic.
I dread to think what has been said in front of her but it's eroded the relationship I had with her but of course her mother denies anything. That's if she bothers speaking to me. First weekend here I ended up in a confrontation with her husband due to, 'What I'd done'. Yet refused to tell me. I assume it was my refusal to be told when my daughter was being picked up not at 16.30 but 18.00 after we'd had dinner. The same time she'd been home for years.
I tried meeting up with her mum, I even bought her (and her husband who had to come along) a coffee and tried to open up the discussion. They won't discuss any of their feelings on anything, just evasive and tried to talk about my daughter which is fine but there is still a lot going on behind the scenes.
I'm not finding it harder and harder to see my daughter beyond the set Friday-Sunday. I have to justify any additional time, it seems I'm dissuaded from picking up from school, and have to make a case for any extra time or almost bargain for it. I was unable to take her away last Summer because every weekend they had her, she had plans and in turn I couldn't book a weekend to weekend break. Just grossly unreasonable.
Sorry for the long thread.
So, has anyone successfully used a mediator to resolve such issues? I want to put forward the notion of Friday to Monday (school), an additional day in between and more access during the holidays. My ex has a habit of going, 'I'll ask' our daughter. Who is permanently torn with letting her mum down, her mum is narcissistic and I have had my daughter quote, 'Mummy is always right'.
I was hoping the move would ease things, which it has in one respect yet I'm really on edge with this situation now.
I'll try and keep it brief but here is the background, I'll try and keep it brief.
Daughter is over 10 and me and her mother have been separated for 10 years. Both moved on, she is married. I have been with my partner a similar length of time and have two children (6/2). My ex chose to move back home (Gloucestershire) as her mum offered £100k towards a house if she moved back, making my daughter 120 miles away.
First year we made this work fairly well, then when old enough my daughter would come to me every other weekend from early Saturday to Sunday evening. When my second child was born, my ex waited until she was about 8-10 weeks old and then e-mailed me to say she was no longer taking responsibility of the driving meaning I spent the last 6 years covering 500 miles every weekend I had my eldest, pick up on a Friday evening and drop off on a Sunday evening. Coincidentally my ex moved back to Gloucestershire when my eldest was a similar age, certainly a coincidence. Anyway.
Fast forward to September this year and we have relocated, my middle one changed schools and we moved to a property walking distance from my eldest. No more 5 hour round trips, reduction in cost of fuel and wear and tear on the car.
Since my ex caught wind of our move, she badgered me to know where it was, I was told by her and husband it was, 'mind games' not telling them. It was simply none of their business until my move went through. Since that point my ex has been making my eldest feel very very uneasy over it. To the extent my daughter now lies to avoid any kind of interaction, even bringing things home from my house makes her uneasy. Perish the thought we have to pick up a different pair of shoes from her mums, my daughter goes into a panic.
I dread to think what has been said in front of her but it's eroded the relationship I had with her but of course her mother denies anything. That's if she bothers speaking to me. First weekend here I ended up in a confrontation with her husband due to, 'What I'd done'. Yet refused to tell me. I assume it was my refusal to be told when my daughter was being picked up not at 16.30 but 18.00 after we'd had dinner. The same time she'd been home for years.
I tried meeting up with her mum, I even bought her (and her husband who had to come along) a coffee and tried to open up the discussion. They won't discuss any of their feelings on anything, just evasive and tried to talk about my daughter which is fine but there is still a lot going on behind the scenes.
I'm not finding it harder and harder to see my daughter beyond the set Friday-Sunday. I have to justify any additional time, it seems I'm dissuaded from picking up from school, and have to make a case for any extra time or almost bargain for it. I was unable to take her away last Summer because every weekend they had her, she had plans and in turn I couldn't book a weekend to weekend break. Just grossly unreasonable.
Sorry for the long thread.
So, has anyone successfully used a mediator to resolve such issues? I want to put forward the notion of Friday to Monday (school), an additional day in between and more access during the holidays. My ex has a habit of going, 'I'll ask' our daughter. Who is permanently torn with letting her mum down, her mum is narcissistic and I have had my daughter quote, 'Mummy is always right'.
I was hoping the move would ease things, which it has in one respect yet I'm really on edge with this situation now.
Alex_225 said:
Since my ex caught wind of our move, she badgered me to know where it was, I was told by her and husband it was, 'mind games' not telling them. It was simply none of their business until my move went through.
At this point I was siding with the OP's ex, it's not unreasonable to know where your kids are sleeping. But as I got further in the mad as a box of frogs grew stronger.Mediation can't hurt, and as to cost; what price for your daughter's sanity?
I have mediated with my ex.
The issue is that they need to be willing to attend mediation and or go along with what is decided.
Mine would basically deny there was an agreement , say the mediator was bullying her ( no one in the planet can bully my ex ) etc etc and then just refused to attend.
Given the age of your child to be frank I would just go for a court order.
Courts in general go with the status quo on the basis that it used to work so it will in the future, so if you go this route make efforts to keep the status quo you seek.
To be frank you seem to have been difficult to her so she is returning the favour. Why not tell her where you are moving to.
The new husband being involved is not helpful but I don't see what you can do.
The thing to bear in mind is a court order will involve social services reports etc which are traumatic and come to questionable conclusions.
The child will get some degree of voice but this then makes them to some extent take sides which is also traumatic.
Based on my own experience it is generally not likely to improve hence my suggestion given they are relatively young to go for a court order.
The thing you want to ask yourself is if you have done ok ( ish ) for 10 years why now ? What is your part. Neither party are likely to be blameless.
The issue is that they need to be willing to attend mediation and or go along with what is decided.
Mine would basically deny there was an agreement , say the mediator was bullying her ( no one in the planet can bully my ex ) etc etc and then just refused to attend.
Given the age of your child to be frank I would just go for a court order.
Courts in general go with the status quo on the basis that it used to work so it will in the future, so if you go this route make efforts to keep the status quo you seek.
To be frank you seem to have been difficult to her so she is returning the favour. Why not tell her where you are moving to.
The new husband being involved is not helpful but I don't see what you can do.
The thing to bear in mind is a court order will involve social services reports etc which are traumatic and come to questionable conclusions.
The child will get some degree of voice but this then makes them to some extent take sides which is also traumatic.
Based on my own experience it is generally not likely to improve hence my suggestion given they are relatively young to go for a court order.
The thing you want to ask yourself is if you have done ok ( ish ) for 10 years why now ? What is your part. Neither party are likely to be blameless.
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
The thing you want to ask yourself is if you have done ok ( ish ) for 10 years why now ? What is your part. Neither party are likely to be blameless.
This is what struck me. When I split with my ex 15 years ago it was initially horrendous trying to get time with my son. Mediation failed because she simply refused to attend. With hindsight I should have gone through the courts, but time has moved on and things are now fine. For things to have been ok for 10 years (including numerous significant life events such as new partners for both of you, and further children) but now things have taken a nosedive? makes me think there is more to this story.
riskyj said:
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
The thing you want to ask yourself is if you have done ok ( ish ) for 10 years why now ? What is your part. Neither party are likely to be blameless.
This is what struck me. When I split with my ex 15 years ago it was initially horrendous trying to get time with my son. Mediation failed because she simply refused to attend. With hindsight I should have gone through the courts, but time has moved on and things are now fine. For things to have been ok for 10 years (including numerous significant life events such as new partners for both of you, and further children) but now things have taken a nosedive? makes me think there is more to this story.
k all to do with anything other than the fact our OP has seemingly been a bit sneaky in moving close to where they live.*Although it's 'none of their business' its deffo going to ruffle a few feathers in the relationship between his ex and her husband.
They would have been comfortable knowing he was 120 miles away; out of sight out of mind etc and now he's popped up around the corner and its caught them off guard. With assumingly the real possibility of bumping into one another.
In the eyes of his ex and her husband he's back in their lives etc whereas before his intrusion into their life was regulated and predicable.
They are now being a bit t
tty with our OP for rocking the boat imho.- not my view, just verbalising the likely thoughts of the ex and husband.
It strikes me that where the OP lives is the ex's business insofar as it doesn't seem unreasonable that she should know where the child is staying when the child is not with her, unless there are some other issues here undisclosed such as the OP is concerned his ex or partner will cause trouble at his house, but if that was the case then I would assume the OP would not have moved within walking distance of his ex partner.
It seems that the issues are caused by the OP being secretive about his address which is putting stress on the child who is stuck in the middle of it
It seems that the issues are caused by the OP being secretive about his address which is putting stress on the child who is stuck in the middle of it
Jamescrs said:
It strikes me that where the OP lives is the ex's business insofar as it doesn't seem unreasonable that she should know where the child is staying when the child is not with her, unless there are some other issues here undisclosed such as the OP is concerned his ex or partner will cause trouble at his house, but if that was the case then I would assume the OP would not have moved within walking distance of his ex partner.
It seems that the issues are caused by the OP being secretive about his address which is putting stress on the child who is stuck in the middle of it
OP doesn't seem to be saying that he hasn't told his ex where they've moved to, just that he didn't want to tell until everything had been finalised.It seems that the issues are caused by the OP being secretive about his address which is putting stress on the child who is stuck in the middle of it
Ex didn't need to know where the child was going to be staying until such time as it was going to happen.
Just for clarity, my ex knew I was moving nearby that's all I said until I exchanged. The reason I refrained from telling her where exactly the house was, is because I wanted to minimise the amount of time she had to completely spoil it for my daughter. When I first mentioned the notion of us moving closer she was genuinely excited. She clearly told her mum and the next time I had her, she was completely different, didn't want to speak about it etc. I didn't need the inevitable grief in the lead up to the move. So I told her the day we exchanged contracts.
Please keep in mind that she moved in with her now husband, with my daughter 6 or so months before telling me. Despite my daughter telling me, when asked her mother for some reason denied it. There have been plenty of other occasions where the truth has been avoided on her side. This was is the first time I have kept something close to my chest as the stress of moving is enough, without an ex trying to upset your daughter over it.
Also, the genuine anger my ex has will be nothing to do with the proximity of our house. Perhaps a tiny percentage but she is a narcissist and the fact that we have now moved to an area she can't criticise and being hyper competitive, it will bother her the house is bigger etc. Really really petty stuff. Her husband enables this and she by her own words is, 'Always right'. And she means it.
I have tried, to be extremely balanced. Would never comment negatively in front of my daughter about her mum or that side of the family. I'll ask how everyone is etc. Basically be a decent human being.
I tried to open up a line of communication, offered to meet up with my ex over a coffee (husband, daughter and dog were brought along though) and I asked her if she was perturbed by us moving nearer. She evaded answering as I was willing to reassure her that I'm not there to rock the boat. I just wanted to be closer to my daughter rather than the 120 miles previous, and I also feel the area offers a better life for my other two children.
There are other indicators that they are somewhat of a toxic pairing but the real decline I think came during the Covid lockdown. I followed the guidelines but by law I was still allowed to have my daughter. They became and still are extremely paranoid about Covid (having my daughter vaccinated without my consent paranoid) and certainly her husband you could visibly see was angered by my insistence on seeing my daughter. I think they have got in their heads that anything I do by simply living my live is done intentionally to annoy them.
So mediation.......Looking like it might be a possible and has worked for others. The main reason they will want to avoid court is cost and potential for a reduction in child maintenance (currently £420 p/m). They are extremely money centric and combine that with a lack of control being told by a court what will happen, they will avoid at all costs. I don't think they would go with mediation out of good will put it that way.
Please keep in mind that she moved in with her now husband, with my daughter 6 or so months before telling me. Despite my daughter telling me, when asked her mother for some reason denied it. There have been plenty of other occasions where the truth has been avoided on her side. This was is the first time I have kept something close to my chest as the stress of moving is enough, without an ex trying to upset your daughter over it.
Also, the genuine anger my ex has will be nothing to do with the proximity of our house. Perhaps a tiny percentage but she is a narcissist and the fact that we have now moved to an area she can't criticise and being hyper competitive, it will bother her the house is bigger etc. Really really petty stuff. Her husband enables this and she by her own words is, 'Always right'. And she means it.
I have tried, to be extremely balanced. Would never comment negatively in front of my daughter about her mum or that side of the family. I'll ask how everyone is etc. Basically be a decent human being.
I tried to open up a line of communication, offered to meet up with my ex over a coffee (husband, daughter and dog were brought along though) and I asked her if she was perturbed by us moving nearer. She evaded answering as I was willing to reassure her that I'm not there to rock the boat. I just wanted to be closer to my daughter rather than the 120 miles previous, and I also feel the area offers a better life for my other two children.
There are other indicators that they are somewhat of a toxic pairing but the real decline I think came during the Covid lockdown. I followed the guidelines but by law I was still allowed to have my daughter. They became and still are extremely paranoid about Covid (having my daughter vaccinated without my consent paranoid) and certainly her husband you could visibly see was angered by my insistence on seeing my daughter. I think they have got in their heads that anything I do by simply living my live is done intentionally to annoy them.
So mediation.......Looking like it might be a possible and has worked for others. The main reason they will want to avoid court is cost and potential for a reduction in child maintenance (currently £420 p/m). They are extremely money centric and combine that with a lack of control being told by a court what will happen, they will avoid at all costs. I don't think they would go with mediation out of good will put it that way.
Alex_225 said:
Just for clarity, my ex knew I was moving nearby that's all I said until I exchanged. The reason I refrained from telling her where exactly the house was, is because I wanted to minimise the amount of time she had to completely spoil it for my daughter. When I first mentioned the notion of us moving closer she was genuinely excited. She clearly told her mum and the next time I had her, she was completely different, didn't want to speak about it etc. I didn't need the inevitable grief in the lead up to the move. So I told her the day we exchanged contracts.
Please keep in mind that she moved in with her now husband, with my daughter 6 or so months before telling me. Despite my daughter telling me, when asked her mother for some reason denied it. There have been plenty of other occasions where the truth has been avoided on her side. This was is the first time I have kept something close to my chest as the stress of moving is enough, without an ex trying to upset your daughter over it.
Also, the genuine anger my ex has will be nothing to do with the proximity of our house. Perhaps a tiny percentage but she is a narcissist and the fact that we have now moved to an area she can't criticise and being hyper competitive, it will bother her the house is bigger etc. Really really petty stuff. Her husband enables this and she by her own words is, 'Always right'. And she means it.
I have tried, to be extremely balanced. Would never comment negatively in front of my daughter about her mum or that side of the family. I'll ask how everyone is etc. Basically be a decent human being.
I tried to open up a line of communication, offered to meet up with my ex over a coffee (husband, daughter and dog were brought along though) and I asked her if she was perturbed by us moving nearer. She evaded answering as I was willing to reassure her that I'm not there to rock the boat. I just wanted to be closer to my daughter rather than the 120 miles previous, and I also feel the area offers a better life for my other two children.
There are other indicators that they are somewhat of a toxic pairing but the real decline I think came during the Covid lockdown. I followed the guidelines but by law I was still allowed to have my daughter. They became and still are extremely paranoid about Covid (having my daughter vaccinated without my consent paranoid) and certainly her husband you could visibly see was angered by my insistence on seeing my daughter. I think they have got in their heads that anything I do by simply living my live is done intentionally to annoy them.
So mediation.......Looking like it might be a possible and has worked for others. The main reason they will want to avoid court is cost and potential for a reduction in child maintenance (currently £420 p/m). They are extremely money centric and combine that with a lack of control being told by a court what will happen, they will avoid at all costs. I don't think they would go with mediation out of good will put it that way.
Blimey mate, you seemingly can't do right for doing wrong can you!?Please keep in mind that she moved in with her now husband, with my daughter 6 or so months before telling me. Despite my daughter telling me, when asked her mother for some reason denied it. There have been plenty of other occasions where the truth has been avoided on her side. This was is the first time I have kept something close to my chest as the stress of moving is enough, without an ex trying to upset your daughter over it.
Also, the genuine anger my ex has will be nothing to do with the proximity of our house. Perhaps a tiny percentage but she is a narcissist and the fact that we have now moved to an area she can't criticise and being hyper competitive, it will bother her the house is bigger etc. Really really petty stuff. Her husband enables this and she by her own words is, 'Always right'. And she means it.
I have tried, to be extremely balanced. Would never comment negatively in front of my daughter about her mum or that side of the family. I'll ask how everyone is etc. Basically be a decent human being.
I tried to open up a line of communication, offered to meet up with my ex over a coffee (husband, daughter and dog were brought along though) and I asked her if she was perturbed by us moving nearer. She evaded answering as I was willing to reassure her that I'm not there to rock the boat. I just wanted to be closer to my daughter rather than the 120 miles previous, and I also feel the area offers a better life for my other two children.
There are other indicators that they are somewhat of a toxic pairing but the real decline I think came during the Covid lockdown. I followed the guidelines but by law I was still allowed to have my daughter. They became and still are extremely paranoid about Covid (having my daughter vaccinated without my consent paranoid) and certainly her husband you could visibly see was angered by my insistence on seeing my daughter. I think they have got in their heads that anything I do by simply living my live is done intentionally to annoy them.
So mediation.......Looking like it might be a possible and has worked for others. The main reason they will want to avoid court is cost and potential for a reduction in child maintenance (currently £420 p/m). They are extremely money centric and combine that with a lack of control being told by a court what will happen, they will avoid at all costs. I don't think they would go with mediation out of good will put it that way.
It sounds like a real tough situation and one I have been in myself when my now 28yr old daughter was six too.
Very very similar situation except the new fella was the narcissistic idiot and the mother easily led.
If you want a private chat from an old hand the email me anytime
lord trumpton said:
Blimey mate, you seemingly can't do right for doing wrong can you!?
It sounds like a real tough situation and one I have been in myself when my now 28yr old daughter was six too.
Very very similar situation except the new fella was the narcissistic idiot and the mother easily led.
If you want a private chat from an old hand the email me anytime
Sadly, it seems the more effort I put in and the more of a decent dad I strive to be the more competitive and manipulative she becomes. It sounds like a real tough situation and one I have been in myself when my now 28yr old daughter was six too.
Very very similar situation except the new fella was the narcissistic idiot and the mother easily led.
If you want a private chat from an old hand the email me anytime
We suspect my eldest daughter is neuro divergent but her mum (who works as a SENDCO) who knows everything of course thinks she doesn't need any additional help. It concerns me as struggles with change and particular ways of doing things means she is entirely dependent on her mum and takes what her mum says entirely literally. I'd like that assessed so it would be something I'd try and organise via mediation.
Thank you mate, I'll try on here the e-mail I have on here isn't one I use at all now so I need to work out changing that so watch this space. Thank you mate.
Strikes me that your ex and her husband were quite happy with you being 120 miles away and a part-time Dad and are now a bit narked that you're closer and wanting more access, disrupting the setup they like.
TBH, I don't see an issue with telling them where you live. It's a safe place (I assume) and you've nothing to hide. She'll rightly want to know where her child is and if it was reversed, you'd want the same basic info. It's not like you have to invite her round for dinner.
Is the new husband the jealous type? Some men can be jealous when an ex moves nearby - like you're moving in on his territory or some such other 'alpha' bullst.
I would only advise being open, honest and friendly (which it sounds like you are)
Explain calmly and friendly that you want more access to your daughter and are in a geographical position now to achieve it. Explain that you can do this the easy way or the hard way and you'd much prefer the easy way
If they're dependent on your child support and know which side their bread is buttered on, they may see sense.
If not, mediation first then court order - at each time giving them the outlet to the easy way.
TBH, I don't see an issue with telling them where you live. It's a safe place (I assume) and you've nothing to hide. She'll rightly want to know where her child is and if it was reversed, you'd want the same basic info. It's not like you have to invite her round for dinner.
Is the new husband the jealous type? Some men can be jealous when an ex moves nearby - like you're moving in on his territory or some such other 'alpha' bulls
t.I would only advise being open, honest and friendly (which it sounds like you are)
Explain calmly and friendly that you want more access to your daughter and are in a geographical position now to achieve it. Explain that you can do this the easy way or the hard way and you'd much prefer the easy way
If they're dependent on your child support and know which side their bread is buttered on, they may see sense.
If not, mediation first then court order - at each time giving them the outlet to the easy way.
Seems to me that they are threatened by your proximity and the potential (real or percieved) impacts that could have.
Keeping the conversations going is the only route you have, I'd avoid getting anything "official" involved if at all possible - it will only increase the bad feeling.
My situation had some similarities - plenty of time has now passed and things are very different.
Outside of the weekend meet ups, how often do you talk to your daughter?
Something that worked wonders for me was a call every day after school - somedays it was a 10sec chat, others a 20min chat. Usually her mum picked up the phone, and over time that little bit of extra "no pressure" communication worked wonders for us all.
Like you, I made a point of never being negative about anything and only saying positive things in front of her.
Was it awkward and maddening at times? Absolutely! However we got there in end.
Keeping the conversations going is the only route you have, I'd avoid getting anything "official" involved if at all possible - it will only increase the bad feeling.
My situation had some similarities - plenty of time has now passed and things are very different.
Outside of the weekend meet ups, how often do you talk to your daughter?
Something that worked wonders for me was a call every day after school - somedays it was a 10sec chat, others a 20min chat. Usually her mum picked up the phone, and over time that little bit of extra "no pressure" communication worked wonders for us all.
Like you, I made a point of never being negative about anything and only saying positive things in front of her.
Was it awkward and maddening at times? Absolutely! However we got there in end.
From personal experience it will all be about cash. They will thinking that your intention is to split the caring 50/50 and for them to be £400 a month worse off. As soon as you tell them that you have no intention of reducing the money, they won’t bother how much time you spend with her.
Muzzer79 said:
Strikes me that your ex and her husband were quite happy with you being 120 miles away and a part-time Dad and are now a bit narked that you're closer and wanting more access, disrupting the setup they like.
TBH, I don't see an issue with telling them where you live. It's a safe place (I assume) and you've nothing to hide. She'll rightly want to know where her child is and if it was reversed, you'd want the same basic info. It's not like you have to invite her round for dinner.
Is the new husband the jealous type? Some men can be jealous when an ex moves nearby - like you're moving in on his territory or some such other 'alpha' bullst.
I would only advise being open, honest and friendly (which it sounds like you are)
Explain calmly and friendly that you want more access to your daughter and are in a geographical position now to achieve it. Explain that you can do this the easy way or the hard way and you'd much prefer the easy way
If they're dependent on your child support and know which side their bread is buttered on, they may see sense.
If not, mediation first then court order - at each time giving them the outlet to the easy way.
I did tell her, once I'd exchanged the exact address so that was two weeks before we moved. Agreed, she should know and I had no intention of not telling her. I just wanted to minimise the amount of time for my ex to really disrupt my daughter over it, so left it as long as I could. Also keep in mind I didn't get told where my daughter was living (in their current house) until after they'd moved in and that was with a push. Sadly the respect doesn't go both ways. TBH, I don't see an issue with telling them where you live. It's a safe place (I assume) and you've nothing to hide. She'll rightly want to know where her child is and if it was reversed, you'd want the same basic info. It's not like you have to invite her round for dinner.
Is the new husband the jealous type? Some men can be jealous when an ex moves nearby - like you're moving in on his territory or some such other 'alpha' bulls
t.I would only advise being open, honest and friendly (which it sounds like you are)
Explain calmly and friendly that you want more access to your daughter and are in a geographical position now to achieve it. Explain that you can do this the easy way or the hard way and you'd much prefer the easy way
If they're dependent on your child support and know which side their bread is buttered on, they may see sense.
If not, mediation first then court order - at each time giving them the outlet to the easy way.
To give you an idea, the first weekend I had my daughter after the move her mum was trying to arrange a time she'd be home. Now usually we'd be in the car from 3.30pm and wouldn't get back to her mums until 6.30pm or so. So I had dinner lined up with a plan for her to be home the usual time. Her mum insisted 5pm, if we'd be having dinner it would be 4pm. When I stood firm and insisted 6pm, I was greeted by her husband mid-way down to their house. He had a face like thunder and told me he didn't appreciate the tone of my message and that I was upsetting his wife.
I asked him to explain the issue, he just kept saying, "You know, you know" and refused to answer a thing. When I raised my voice in frustration my daughter got a bit upset and he goes, 'You should stop that, you're upsetting the child'.
So all that fuss over me standing my ground over 90 minutes, asking for another couple of nights a month will likely be worse and the ex avoids all conversation so it will have to be over e-mail anyway.
Also, keep in mind that all my e-mails or texts are written in a way that anyone could read them without a tone. I write them in a way I'd write at work, so if HR read them, they couldn't claim there was a tone or attitude or anger behind them. I would readily print off all my e-mails or texts and show them to anyone who wishes to read them.
BrettMRC said:
Seems to me that they are threatened by your proximity and the potential (real or percieved) impacts that could have.
Keeping the conversations going is the only route you have, I'd avoid getting anything "official" involved if at all possible - it will only increase the bad feeling.
My situation had some similarities - plenty of time has now passed and things are very different.
Outside of the weekend meet ups, how often do you talk to your daughter?
Something that worked wonders for me was a call every day after school - somedays it was a 10sec chat, others a 20min chat. Usually her mum picked up the phone, and over time that little bit of extra "no pressure" communication worked wonders for us all.
Like you, I made a point of never being negative about anything and only saying positive things in front of her.
Was it awkward and maddening at times? Absolutely! However we got there in end.
In terms of contacting my daughter it's really hard. I bought her an iPod touch so I could iMessage her and Facetime but the frequency got less and less. Her mum wouldn't encourage her to charge it or pick up and text me. This year her mum bought her a proper phone, she also bought her a smart watch which she's encouraged her to not take off, 'to count her steps'. Keeping the conversations going is the only route you have, I'd avoid getting anything "official" involved if at all possible - it will only increase the bad feeling.
My situation had some similarities - plenty of time has now passed and things are very different.
Outside of the weekend meet ups, how often do you talk to your daughter?
Something that worked wonders for me was a call every day after school - somedays it was a 10sec chat, others a 20min chat. Usually her mum picked up the phone, and over time that little bit of extra "no pressure" communication worked wonders for us all.
Like you, I made a point of never being negative about anything and only saying positive things in front of her.
Was it awkward and maddening at times? Absolutely! However we got there in end.
Her mum would proceed to relentlessly text her which of course she'd know about as the watch would buzz, she'd rush to get the phone. On one weekend she left the phone upstairs, her mum set off some emergency alarm via some family app on the phone. I had to call her out on it and tell her it's invasive and if there was a problem, I would let her know but to refrain from hounding her whilst she's with me. I have also caught out my ex b!tching about me/my partner to my daughter via texts. Which I called her out on and to my knowledge has stopped.
Unfortunately her mum makes my daughter feel very awkward about being happy with us. My daughter is affectionate and will hug and tell us she loves us. As soon as her mum is in sight, totally different child and you can see she feels uncomfortable showing it in front of her mum.
By contrast, I will actively ask how everyone is on that side, what's been going on and show an interest because understandably they're important to my daughter. My opinion is irrelevant and not for her to be troubled with, it absolutely doesn't go the other way round though.
Sorry for the long replies and thank you for the replies, knowing others have experienced similar is reassuring. I'm just desperate not to lose the relationship I have with my daughter and at the moment that's how it feels.
All I want to do is go from Friday to Sunday every other week is pick up from school Friday, take to school Monday morning every other week and see her a night somewhere inbetween. I will bet money on them not wanting to let me do that.
Alex_225 said:
lord trumpton said:
Blimey mate, you seemingly can't do right for doing wrong can you!?
It sounds like a real tough situation and one I have been in myself when my now 28yr old daughter was six too.
Very very similar situation except the new fella was the narcissistic idiot and the mother easily led.
If you want a private chat from an old hand the email me anytime
Sadly, it seems the more effort I put in and the more of a decent dad I strive to be the more competitive and manipulative she becomes. It sounds like a real tough situation and one I have been in myself when my now 28yr old daughter was six too.
Very very similar situation except the new fella was the narcissistic idiot and the mother easily led.
If you want a private chat from an old hand the email me anytime
We suspect my eldest daughter is neuro divergent but her mum (who works as a SENDCO) who knows everything of course thinks she doesn't need any additional help. It concerns me as struggles with change and particular ways of doing things means she is entirely dependent on her mum and takes what her mum says entirely literally. I'd like that assessed so it would be something I'd try and organise via mediation.
Thank you mate, I'll try on here the e-mail I have on here isn't one I use at all now so I need to work out changing that so watch this space. Thank you mate.
I think personally from what you have written and the way you describe them then the best way to communicate and to arrange things would be within a formal and legal framework
I would seek advice on how to crystalise arrangements for daughter time that details holidays, term time, weekends etc and also travel arrangements
Its clear the relationship you have with them is poor and they are not going to suddenly become reasonable
Do your homework, find out how to do the above then discuss the formal route you are considering with them and then also offer mediation as an option.
Something has got to change as the only people who will suffer is your daughter and you and your wife. Don't forget her in this as it's likely more annoying to her than she lets on.
In my personal experience:
If you try and go directly for a court order before mediation the court will want to see that you have tried to mediate beforehand and will question why you haven't.
Mediation in my experience was good and useful; it was all done via Zoom. I didn't have to see or hear my ex and in fact most times it was done at different times to each other. I got the impression the mediator had been around the block a bit and was very experienced in the games people play in these situations. I think mediation lasted about 7 or 8 sessions and in the end avoided having to go to court at all. You get back what you're prepared to put into mediation. Obviously if one or both sides aren't going to be prepared to compromise then it won't work, but you might be surprised surprised at how well it works,I was.
Not all mediators are the same though, some are better than others. The mediator I used was recommended to me by my family solicitor.
Good luck!
If you try and go directly for a court order before mediation the court will want to see that you have tried to mediate beforehand and will question why you haven't.
Mediation in my experience was good and useful; it was all done via Zoom. I didn't have to see or hear my ex and in fact most times it was done at different times to each other. I got the impression the mediator had been around the block a bit and was very experienced in the games people play in these situations. I think mediation lasted about 7 or 8 sessions and in the end avoided having to go to court at all. You get back what you're prepared to put into mediation. Obviously if one or both sides aren't going to be prepared to compromise then it won't work, but you might be surprised surprised at how well it works,I was.
Not all mediators are the same though, some are better than others. The mediator I used was recommended to me by my family solicitor.
Good luck!
lord trumpton said:
No worries chief.
I think personally from what you have written and the way you describe them then the best way to communicate and to arrange things would be within a formal and legal framework
I would seek advice on how to crystalise arrangements for daughter time that details holidays, term time, weekends etc and also travel arrangements
Its clear the relationship you have with them is poor and they are not going to suddenly become reasonable
Do your homework, find out how to do the above then discuss the formal route you are considering with them and then also offer mediation as an option.
Something has got to change as the only people who will suffer is your daughter and you and your wife. Don't forget her in this as it's likely more annoying to her than she lets on.
Sadly I think it does need to be formalised. Things that were easily arranged in previous years, such as going on holidays etc. Have now become tricky and I have to justify time beyond more usual weekends now. I think personally from what you have written and the way you describe them then the best way to communicate and to arrange things would be within a formal and legal framework
I would seek advice on how to crystalise arrangements for daughter time that details holidays, term time, weekends etc and also travel arrangements
Its clear the relationship you have with them is poor and they are not going to suddenly become reasonable
Do your homework, find out how to do the above then discuss the formal route you are considering with them and then also offer mediation as an option.
Something has got to change as the only people who will suffer is your daughter and you and your wife. Don't forget her in this as it's likely more annoying to her than she lets on.
I completely agree, something does have to change and I'm not sure they'll willingly adapt to a change. I suspect the 'threat' of mediation may force their hand but not from a decency perspective but a cost perspective.
Sadly my daughter is struggling, she enjoys her time with us, we make a fuss of her and my other two kids think she is the best. I just think she spends her time feeling guilty toward her mum.
CarlosSainz100 said:
In my personal experience:
If you try and go directly for a court order before mediation the court will want to see that you have tried to mediate beforehand and will question why you haven't.
Mediation in my experience was good and useful; it was all done via Zoom. I didn't have to see or hear my ex and in fact most times it was done at different times to each other. I got the impression the mediator had been around the block a bit and was very experienced in the games people play in these situations. I think mediation lasted about 7 or 8 sessions and in the end avoided having to go to court at all. You get back what you're prepared to put into mediation. Obviously if one or both sides aren't going to be prepared to compromise then it won't work, but you might be surprised surprised at how well it works,I was.
Not all mediators are the same though, some are better than others. The mediator I used was recommended to me by my family solicitor.
Good luck!
Thanks mate. Yes, that was my understanding is to aim for mediation first and then if that fails or is refused then mediation is the next option. If you try and go directly for a court order before mediation the court will want to see that you have tried to mediate beforehand and will question why you haven't.
Mediation in my experience was good and useful; it was all done via Zoom. I didn't have to see or hear my ex and in fact most times it was done at different times to each other. I got the impression the mediator had been around the block a bit and was very experienced in the games people play in these situations. I think mediation lasted about 7 or 8 sessions and in the end avoided having to go to court at all. You get back what you're prepared to put into mediation. Obviously if one or both sides aren't going to be prepared to compromise then it won't work, but you might be surprised surprised at how well it works,I was.
Not all mediators are the same though, some are better than others. The mediator I used was recommended to me by my family solicitor.
Good luck!
The stupid thing is, I could easily sit in a room with my ex and have no issue discussing things. I have maintained a cool head throughout numerous interactions where they have been ill mannered or dismissive. I used to find it slightly amusing how irritated they seemed to get with me, for literally trying my best to be a good dad.
I think the facelessness of a Zoom or Teams call would be preferred by my ex. One of the things she used to get angry about is that I'm good at thinking and speaking in situations like that, she claims that there are things she agreed to because she claims she was vulnerable but she's never been coerced. Having time to think and respond will work better for her and that's fine.
The only thing is that I don't know what reasoned arguments she can put forward against my daughter having more time. Everyone knows it's positive for a child to have time with both parents and a good father figure is important to children.
It's going to be an interesting few months.
Alex_225 said:
Sadly my daughter is struggling, she enjoys her time with us, we make a fuss of her and my other two kids think she is the best. I just think she spends her time feeling guilty toward her mum.
Bear in mind that a court order or mediation can enable more time with your daughter but it can't stop your ex guilt-tripping a little girl.Your ex sounds insecure and manipulative with your daughter. You will need to find ways to mitigate this and further support your daughter as it's unlikely to change.....
Alex_225 said:
Thanks mate. Yes, that was my understanding is to aim for mediation first and then if that fails or is refused then mediation is the next option.
The stupid thing is, I could easily sit in a room with my ex and have no issue discussing things. I have maintained a cool head throughout numerous interactions where they have been ill mannered or dismissive. I used to find it slightly amusing how irritated they seemed to get with me, for literally trying my best to be a good dad.
I think the facelessness of a Zoom or Teams call would be preferred by my ex. One of the things she used to get angry about is that I'm good at thinking and speaking in situations like that, she claims that there are things she agreed to because she claims she was vulnerable but she's never been coerced. Having time to think and respond will work better for her and that's fine.
The only thing is that I don't know what reasoned arguments she can put forward against my daughter having more time. Everyone knows it's positive for a child to have time with both parents and a good father figure is important to children.
It's going to be an interesting few months.
Just to add, again in my experience:The stupid thing is, I could easily sit in a room with my ex and have no issue discussing things. I have maintained a cool head throughout numerous interactions where they have been ill mannered or dismissive. I used to find it slightly amusing how irritated they seemed to get with me, for literally trying my best to be a good dad.
I think the facelessness of a Zoom or Teams call would be preferred by my ex. One of the things she used to get angry about is that I'm good at thinking and speaking in situations like that, she claims that there are things she agreed to because she claims she was vulnerable but she's never been coerced. Having time to think and respond will work better for her and that's fine.
The only thing is that I don't know what reasoned arguments she can put forward against my daughter having more time. Everyone knows it's positive for a child to have time with both parents and a good father figure is important to children.
It's going to be an interesting few months.
I was told that the courts now are very much of the view that barring any safeguarding issues; it's very much in the interests of the child to see both parents and in fact that would be preferable.
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