Owners of V8V SportShift with twin-plate clutch - help

[LTP]

Looking for some information/feedback from owners of V8 VH Vantages who have had a twin-plate clutch modification made to their SportShift cars, preferably 4.7 SSII.

I have a 2015 4.7 V8V (non-S) SSII car with about 15k miles on it. I have read of the improvement that fitting a twin-plate clutch makes to these cars (sometimes accompanied with a lighter flywheel, although that can bring increased gear chatter in some cases). I have also spoken to Peter Martin of Martin's Aston Services, as Peter made a video for AMOC that included his enthusiasm for this mod, which they they undertake for their customers.

I am contemplating having a twin-plate clutch added to my car and am wondering if the improvement is significant enough to have to mod done before the current single-plate wears out, which could take until 50k miles and a good few years.

So to help my deliberations I'd like to ask those who have had the mod done:

• Was there a significant improvement in the way the car drove? In what way?
• Was this to fix a worn-out clutch? Or was it just to improve the car?
• Did you have a lightened flywheel fitted at the same time?
• Did you have any other mods made at the same time that may have influenced the final perceived result?
• Did you have the "clutch count" disabled, as advocated by Bamford Rose?
• When was your car built? Did you have to have a modified/exchange torque tube?
• What make of clutch was fitted?
• Who did the work?
• Any other comments?

I am aware that the V12 SSIII has a twin-plate as standard and I have driven one, but I think the significant difference in the driveline would mask improvements from just the clutch

Thanks in anticipation for your help - as I know you all like talking about your cars

[johns355]

I bought my 2014 V8s ss2 21 months ago with 49k on it- no record of a clutch change anywhere so I bought it knowing I was getting the clutch upgraded asap. Let’s face it when I come to sell the car on after x years the new owner will knock the price if there’s no history of a clutch change, so I thought get it done so I get the use out of it plus it’s a good selling tool when I move the car on. After research I got BR to do it, it makes a noticeable difference especially the remap, the sounds she makes are very intoxicating, with added quickness on the gear change up and down. Yes a bit of chatter at low speed but soon goes. Definitely worth doing, John

[Calinours]

Happy to help. Mine was done by BR and included the two plates and the light flywheel. 2011 V8S with SSII

LTP said:

Looking for some information/feedback from owners of V8 VH Vantages who have had a twin-plate clutch modification made to their SportShift cars, preferably 4.7 SSII.

• Was there a significant improvement in the way the car drove? In what way?

Changes are faster and the clunk is considerably reduced. Very sweet changes under heavy acceleration and high engine speed, now like a dual clutch.

• Was this to fix a worn-out clutch? Or was it just to improve the car?

Both. Clutch not fully worn out but the car shuddered when pulling away in a car park on lock.

• Did you have a lightened flywheel fitted at the same time?

yes

• Did you have any other mods made at the same time that may have influenced the final perceived result?

yes, the switchable dampers, the stainless manifolds, the 200cell cats. But the effect of each is quite easy to isolate.

• Did you have the "clutch count" disabled, as advocated by Bamford Rose?

yes. I can tell when a clutch is starting to slip/worn out, as I suspect all typical Vantage owners can.

• When was your car built? Did you have to have a modified/exchange torque tube?

2011, no.

• What make of clutch was fitted?

Just the BR designed/supplied clutch assembly and flywheel, didn’t ask what make as the clutch plates themselves are likely to be pretty generic

• Who did the work?

BR

• Any other comments?

I was very happy with it. The car is very useable and has a great shift now with just the right level of driver interaction. It’s probably the best serious (more than a grand) upgrade you can do for the V8, esp SSII. The only competition is the suspension upgrade and geo set up.

I am aware that the V12 SSIII has a twin-plate as standard and I have driven one, but I think the significant difference in the driveline would mask improvements from just the clutch

What difference? the driveline is the same. The only difference is the engine. A V12 is much smoother so there is no chance of the driveline chatter you get with the V8 at lower rpms - the reason why AM left the heavy Jag flywheel in place. Mine chatters a bit at low rpm, but I know why that is and it doesn’t bother me a jot as I love the increased engine responsiveness.

By way of further explanation an I6 and a V12 has perfect primary AND secondary force and moment balance. It’s the reason these engine configs are silky smooth. A V8 does not. A V8 will therefore induce the sort of chatter we hear of. It’s why OEMs so often add a heavy flywheel to dampen it down. Remove the mass from the flywheel to improve engine response and you are going to see driveline resonance if the system has not been originally designed to suit the input from the engine. Like so much NVH it is harmless but it either bothers you or it doesn’t.

Thanks in anticipation for your help - as I know you all like talking about your cars

Moi?

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 2nd January 18:32

[Damianos]

I did it recently in my 2009 4.7 Sportshift, due to a worn out clutch, including the lighter flywheel. I had done the remap a about a year ago, so there were no other changes to the car, and there is a difference, albeit a small one.

I mainly noticed a change in slow speed manoeuvring, which is now easier, as well as full throttle gear changes. I did not see any substancial difference in how freely it revs or in throttle response (the remap had a noticeable effect on the later).

Retrospectively, and considering the cost, i would personally only do it if the original clutch needed replacing.

[chalkyrabbit]

Was there a significant improvement in the way the car drove? In what way?
Yes much better throttle response, and faster smother changes
Was this to fix a worn-out clutch? Or was it just to improve the car?
Just an improvement
Did you have a lightened flywheel fitted at the same time?
Yes
Did you have any other mods made at the same time that may have influenced the final perceived result?
Yes 200 cell GT4 cats
Did you have the "clutch count" disabled, as advocated by Bamford Rose?
Had this done previously at BR but a worthwhile mod
When was your car built? Did you have to have a modified/exchange torque tube?
2010 SS and Nope
What make of clutch was fitted?
Velocity AP
Who did the work?
David Appleby, who were absolutely first class.
Any other comments?
I've messed about with cars all my life but never had a better improvement than the twinplate clutch and flywheel change to the V8V, you won't regret it if you get it done. The CAT change releases noticable extra power and noise, which I moderate with the remote switchable exhaust mod.

[LTP]

Thanks for all replies so far

[tom-4hcey]

If you don’t mind me asking what is a rough cost to replace the clutch with a twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel on a sport shift 2 car? Mines a 2013 so unsure if it will require a torque tube?

[LTP]

tom-4hcey said:

If you don’t mind me asking what is a rough cost to replace the clutch with a twin plate clutch and lightweight flywheel on a sport shift 2 car? Mines a 2013 so unsure if it will require a torque tube?

I've not checked prices recently, but in my head I have a number of about £5k. As far as your torque tube goes then I think the answer is "possibly", as I believe the change was made around the 12.25MY updates, along with other changes.

In case you aren't aware, before the modification all V8V SportShift torque tubes had a spacer, as they were originally designed for a twin-plate clutch (common, I believe to the DB9 - but I could be wrong). Anyway, for years AML were accepting the cost of an additional part in every car until they realised they could save money by having the torque tube casting modified to remove the need for the spacer. What this means is that I (and possibly you) will need an exchange torque tube that has been machined back to the original condition, my torque tube being then recycled by being machined ready for the next car. This means my twin-plate clutch will cost more than the earlier cars.

I will admit I'm not sure if this also affects manual cars that want a twin-plate clutch fitted.

[JA.Aston]

Torque tube change is 14MY onwards, exchange is possible with those well equipped specialists. £495 + vat @ DAE

Sportshift (ASM) twin plate clutch kit including fitting £2,995 + vat @ DAE

Manual twin plate clutch kit including fitting £2,800 + vat at DAE

[LTP]

JA.Aston said:

Torque tube change is 14MY onwards, exchange is possible with those well equipped specialists. £495 + vat @ DAE

Sportshift (ASM) twin plate clutch kit including fitting £2,995 + vat @ DAE

Manual twin plate clutch kit including fitting £2,800 + vat at DAE

Thanks for the info and corrections. So I'm looking at £4,188 if I go DAE (which was always one of my options).

[Calinours]

Sounds about right.

Based on what your driveline is like today, and your own preferences, you may be offered different options for flywheel mass to achieve the optimum compromise between low rpm driveline chatter and engine responsiveness.

[LTP]

Calinours said:

Sounds about right.

Based on what your driveline is like today, and your own preferences, you may be offered different options for flywheel mass to achieve the optimum compromise between low rpm driveline chatter and engine responsiveness.

I've heard about that. I quite like the "GT" qualities of my V8V and I don't think I have any driveline chatter but, before I made a decision, I'd like an expert who has done a few cars to listen to mine and give me an opinion if it would get a chatter with a lightweight flywheel.

I would quite like a better throttle response but not at the expense of more noise - I understand Mike at BR has different flywheels depending on what the owner wants and the chatter already in evidence - I don't know if DAE have similar. One factor in BR's favour is that they will disable the clutch wear count - I cannot understand why AML implemented such a bloody stupid system that could leave you stranded mid-journey with no prior warnings. When I spoke to DAE at one of the AMHT events this is not something that they said they do.

[Dewi 2]

LTP said:

I've heard about that. I quite like the "GT" qualities of my V8V and I don't think I have any driveline chatter but, before I made a decision, I'd like an expert who has done a few cars to listen to mine and give me an opinion if it would get a chatter with a lightweight flywheel.

Most Vantages have gear chatter under certain circumstances, but with a few cars it can be more pronounced than average.
Those are the cars which should retain a standard weight flywheel.

Drive your car at a lower speed than usual in 2nd gear, then you may hear gear chatter. Slight acceleration and revs increase will stop the chatter. Cars with excessive chatter, may also reveal chatter at tickover. If you do that test, you might even notice a difference with air conditioning On/Off.

My manual 4.7 Vantage had the twin plate / lightened flywheel fitted by BR. There was an increase in chatter, but interestingly it had noticeably reduced after covering 1,000 miles. Now it rarely occurs at idle.

[LTP]

Dewi 2 said:

Most Vantages have gear chatter under certain circumstances, but with a few cars it can be more pronounced than average.
Those are the cars which should retain a standard weight flywheel.

Drive your car at a lower speed than usual in 2nd gear, then you may hear gear chatter. Slight acceleration and revs increase will stop the chatter. Cars with excessive chatter, may also reveal chatter at tickover. If you do that test, you might even notice a difference with air conditioning On/Off.

It's a pity I read your post after I got back from a run today as I could have tried your tests. I tend to keep mine above 2000 rpm to compensate for the (relative) lack of low-down torque, unless cruising in the higher gears. I'll try next time I'm out, but I've never noticed any chatter in over 10,000 miles

Dewi 2 said:

My manual 4.7 Vantage had the twin plate / lightened flywheel fitted by BR. There was an increase in chatter, but interestingly it had noticeably reduced after covering 1,000 miles. Now it rarely occurs at idle.

Interesting. Did you have other mods at the same time? As my original post indicated, I'm getting opinions as to whether it's worth getting the twin-plate before my original one is worn out and, other than deactivating the clutch count, I wasn't planning to get any other mods from the exotic menus of either DAE or BR.

[Dewi 2]

LTP said:

It's a pity I read your post after I got back from a run today as I could have tried your tests. I tend to keep mine above 2000 rpm to compensate for the (relative) lack of low-down torque, unless cruising in the higher gears. I'll try next time I'm out, but I've never noticed any chatter in over 10,000 miles.

On that basis, I expect your car is one of the very low chatter examples. In which case, any increase in chatter with a twin plate, should not be of much/any concern.
Chatter can be noticeable on V8 but not V12, because of the much better balance and smoothness of V12 (and also inline 6) engines.

LTP said:

Did you have other mods at the same time? As my original post indicated, I'm getting opinions as to whether it's worth getting the twin-plate before my original one is worn out and, other than deactivating the clutch count, I wasn't planning to get any other mods from the exotic menus of either DAE or BR.

No, not at the same time.
First was the clutch replacement, because of failure at 15,000 miles.
Later Michelin PS4S.
Then exhaust and inlet mods.

Nothing else is planned. It is now the perfect Aston Martin for me and visually (both on top and underneath) appears entirely original.

The clutch change probably provides even more benefit to drivers of manual cars, because the pedal is so much lighter and the bite point is not so sudden. A twin plate should last longer, because the total friction surfaces are greater.

[LTP]

Dewi 2 said:

No, not at the same time.
First was the clutch replacement, because of failure at 15,000 miles.
Later Michelin PS4S.
Then exhaust and inlet mods.

Nothing else is planned. It is now the perfect Aston Martin for me and visually (both on top and underneath) appears entirely original.

The clutch change probably provides even more benefit to drivers of manual cars, because the pedal is so much lighter and the bite point is not so sudden. A twin plate should last longer, because the total friction surfaces are greater.

Thanks David. Is your a manual?

[Dewi 2]

LTP said:

Thanks David. Is yours a manual?

Yes.
Model Year 2009. Grigio Titanio - Ferrari (1 of 7 UK Coupes in that colour).
It still gives pleasure during winter hibernation, as a work of art.

[LTP]

Dewi 2 said:

Yes.
Model Year 2009. Grigio Titanio - Ferrari (1 of 7 UK Coupes in that colour).
It still gives pleasure during winter hibernation, as a work of art.

Ah, sorry. I should have remembered from your other posts. It also explains part of your comment - you can't make a SportShift labour in too high a gear at low revs to expose a tendency for gear chatter as the gearbox will change down - it's one of their slightly annoying traits as if you roll up to a junction on overrun and decide to go for a gap in the traffic at the same moment the car decides it wants a lower gear it can leave you mid-change with no power and a truck looming. Or if you and the car both decide you want to change down at the same time, the car unexpectedly drops two gears rather than the one you anticipated. Both of which can be...exciting. The moral soon learned? Always think ahead of your SportShift

[johns355]

LTP said:

Ah, sorry. I should have remembered from your other posts. It also explains part of your comment - you can't make a SportShift labour in too high a gear at low revs to expose a tendency for gear chatter as the gearbox will change down - it's one of their slightly annoying traits as if you roll up to a junction on overrun and decide to go for a gap in the traffic at the same moment the car decides it wants a lower gear it can leave you mid-change with no power and a truck looming. Or if you and the car both decide you want to change down at the same time, the car unexpectedly drops two gears rather than the one you anticipated. Both of which can be...exciting. The moral soon learned? Always think ahead of your SportShift

The remap in the clutch upgrade when u paddle shift down to a junction it’s almost instant so that issue pretty much disappeared!
I also had an 08 4.3 V8R manual previously which works done the twin plate/lightened flywheel upgrade- I was one one of the first to get this done apparently. Sold that to get my S 21 months ago