Sheared Locking Wheel Nut

[irc]

So a relative had her car in at a garage with a slow puncture. Got phoned and told the locking wheel nut had sheared off. Told on phone that it had been very tight. Told he was using a 6 feet extension and swinging on it until it snapped and he fell and hurt his leg.

So this garage are denying responsibility saying it was the garage that put the wheel back on last time was to blame for over tightening.

So she had lodged a complaint with the garage that broke it. Leaving aside liability presumably this happens from time to time and there is a fix.

Glasgow area if anyone has any suggestions.

[Athlon]

Just drill if off, centre punch a dot in the centre, pilot drill then keep going up in size until the head comes off, wheel off, unscrew what's left.

[irc]

Thanks. Don't think I have a drill capable of that. Any suggestions of a good place in Glasgow welcome.

[Rough101]

Nuts off or freewheel Glasgow offer a mobile service - and I’d get them to remove all four

[stevieturbo]

There could be an element of blame in various directions, but although McGard would be one of the stronger locking wheel nuts.

But if put on too tight, or if tool not securely seated before trying to undo, or there's the massive whopper ( grey area ? ) of people insisting never to grease wheel bolts, they can all easily lead to failures.

It is a case of suck it up, have them removed, and just get normal wheel bolts or nuts as appropriate unless you deem yourself at high risk of wheel theft..

Whether that is a drill, die grinder, weld, smash socket on....various methods.

[irc]

Thanks for replies. I agree with replacing all 4. In fact when I got all seasons put on my wife's car I replaced the locking nuts on her car.

IMO unless you are in a high risk area the chances of wheel theft are minimal. More of an issue back in the day when many cars still came with steel wheels and alloys were a bit prestige.

[valiant]

Feel your pain op.

Just literally sorted out the same problem on my car today. Slow puncture and a knackered locking wheel nut. Had the garage replace all the locking bolts with normal ones and when they were replacing another one, it sheared as well. Glad I did and willing to take the risk of theft with the added peace of mind if I have to change the wheel beside the road.

When chatting to the mechanic they said they see an awful lot of this type of thing. When tyres are replaced (mainly at fast fit centres) they just air gun it to the max and far too tight and then snap the next time you need to change a wheel.

No help where you are unfortunately.

[stevieturbo]

valiant said:

When chatting to the mechanic they said they see an awful lot of this type of thing. When tyres are replaced (mainly at fast fit centres) they just air gun it to the max and far too tight and then snap the next time you need to change a wheel.

No help where you are unfortunately.

It is also largely down to most never greasing wheel nuts, always preaching never to do such things.

I have never seen a wheel nut/bolt that has had a little grease on it seize or break. I have seen many dry ones seize or break. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Any time I buy any car, it's one of the first tasks I do, ensure all wheel bolts are good and not seized. As I do not want stuck at the roadside some day for something so stupid and avoidable in the event of a puncture
As well of course as making sure the spare wheel itself is good and accessible. Especially if it's one under the vehicle, where any release mechanisms can often be very corroded too.

[Chris32345]

stevieturbo said:

It is also largely down to most never greasing wheel nuts, always preaching never to do such things.

I have never seen a wheel nut/bolt that has had a little grease on it seize or break. I have seen many dry ones seize or break. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Any time I buy any car, it's one of the first tasks I do, ensure all wheel bolts are good and not seized. As I do not want stuck at the roadside some day for something so stupid and avoidable in the event of a puncture
As well of course as making sure the spare wheel itself is good and accessible. Especially if it's one under the vehicle, where any release mechanisms can often be very corroded too.

I've never seen one sieze period

Plenty's of story's and pics of them snapping after being overtighten

[S13_Alan]

Rough101 said:

Nuts off or freewheel Glasgow offer a mobile service - and I’d get them to remove all four

Yea, Nuts Off were good to deal with, and dealers call them in to remove them when needed too.

https://www.wheelnutremoval.co.uk

Based near me, and were great when I discovered I didn't have they key after buying a new car.

I'd echo the remove them and re-fit standard ones, they just cause more problems than they solve.

They'll likely be able to provide replacements if needed, did for me.

[stevieturbo]

Chris32345 said:

I've never seen one sieze period

Plenty's of story's and pics of them snapping after being overtighten

You may be new to the game, but it's hardly a rare occurrence.

Whether it's deemed overtightening or seized, the end result is the same. It will not come undone before whatever tool fixture it uses breaks.

[tapkaJohnD]

I'm very ready to believe the garage that the nuts were previously overtightened.

I wanted to remove a wheel and found that electrolytic corrosion between steel hub and alloy wheel had frozen it on. It was due for a dealer service so asked them to remove all the wheels and check them. They did, but when I went to apply some antisieze to avoid a recurrence, found that ALL the nuts had been tightened to two or three times the quoted torque!

I complained, and had an apology and recompense from the dealer, with the assurance that their 'technicians' would receive training in the proper use of the impact wrench!

John

[ScoobyChris]

Chris32345 said:

Plenty's of story's and pics of them snapping after being overtighten

I managed to sheer one of mine (never over tightened!) when I undid it with a standard telescopic wheel brace. BMW picked up the tab after I complained, but I switched them over to non-locking ones anyway.

Chris

[GreenV8S]

I would assume that the torque settings in the manual were for clean dry threads unless they say otherwise. If you oil the threads and then tighten to the dry spec, it'll be substantially over torqued.

I'm amazed it was possible to over tighten by a factor of two or three without snapping, stripping or stretching the threads. The difference between too loose to secure the wheel and so tight it damages the stud is often quite small.

[TwinKam]

GreenV8S said:

......
I'm amazed it was possible to over tighten by a factor of two or three without snapping, stripping or stretching the threads. The difference between too loose to secure the wheel and so tight it damages the stud is often quite small.

This. I have measured the torque on some ridiculously overtightened wheel nuts/studs, not the breakaway torque as that's different, but the torque required to return that loosened nut/stud to the same place it started from. I've seen 190Nm where it should have been 110, but never as much as double.
The training suggested previously needs to start with 'minimum setting on the duggadugga when spinning on', and progress up to torque wrench tuition; it seems many oiks have no concept of how it works and what it's telling them.

[Driver101]

It does sound like a very plausible excuse. Garages do overtightened the locking wheel nuts.

It doesn't look like a good design of locking nut. They would break quite easily if they had been overtightened.

[vikingaero]

irc said:

So a relative had her car in at a garage with a slow puncture. Got phoned and told the locking wheel nut had sheared off. Told on phone that it had been very tight. Told he was using a 6 feet extension and swinging on it until it snapped and he fell and hurt his leg.

So this garage are denying responsibility saying it was the garage that put the wheel back on last time was to blame for over tightening.

So she had lodged a complaint with the garage that broke it. Leaving aside liability presumably this happens from time to time and there is a fix.

Glasgow area if anyone has any suggestions.

Ah! The lovely and useless McGard petal style locking wheel nut, made from soft Philadelphia cheese.

It may not even be the recent garages that did anything wrong. All you need is someone early on in the cars life to bodge the removal and weaken it for all future fitters.

[Smint]

I've never torqued wheels up on a car or 4x4, used common sense and i'm another who puts a barely there wipe of coppaslip or similar on the wheelbolts and the wheel spigot, never had a wheelnut come lose or had one snap off in well over 50 years working on cars.

Back in the days of trucking when lorry drivers changed our own wheels at the side of the road, we always oiled the threads (taper seats on bolts) and bolt tapers, those which were oiled seated better in practice and never came loose, those refitted dry and rusty didn't seat the same and were always the ones that gave trouble later on.
No it wasn't the approved method as such but it worked better in practice than to trying to seat bolt tapers onto a film of rust, on a rubbish transfer operation a mate and i once worked for 3 years we had multiple punctures to deal with and kept spare tyres on wheels jacks etc at the two sites, we could change wheels using basic tools quicker than the tyre bay.

[irc]

So a happy ending. My relative e-mailed the branch of the national chain where her car had been. Got a reply from the manager who had been on a day off on the day in question. Result - took car back. All 4 locking wheel nuts replaced with standard bolts.A nail removed from a tyre and repair done. No charge.

Can't argue with that for customer service.

[Acuity30]

Just ordered some normal nuts the other day because the locking ones on my car were looking a bit tired and corroded. No one steals alloys anymore unless it's an exotic car. Wouldn't bother with locking ones these days. No need to grease them just set them to the correct torque which is typically 110-130Nm