Germans and Nazism
Discussion
Just finished watching the final season of Das Boot and I just wondered did most Germans actively support Nazism?
There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
Personally I have always been of the view that the financial issues Germany had pre WW2 were the main reason the general population went along with it.
I think most people were in such a bad place that they were like, f&ck it what we got to lose.
There was also a lot of downward pressure put on the people, there was a lot of militia type groups. They could make life miserable if they wanted too. German politics back then was more of a mafia than you might think. The "normies" resisted Hitler for years but eventually he had enough clout to basically use force to take over.
Once they got a few people behind them it was just humans being humans and following the crowd.
I might be wrong. But thats my view.
I think most people were in such a bad place that they were like, f&ck it what we got to lose.
There was also a lot of downward pressure put on the people, there was a lot of militia type groups. They could make life miserable if they wanted too. German politics back then was more of a mafia than you might think. The "normies" resisted Hitler for years but eventually he had enough clout to basically use force to take over.
Once they got a few people behind them it was just humans being humans and following the crowd.
I might be wrong. But thats my view.
Germany didn't just wake up one day and find everyone was a Nazi and ovens had appeared.
It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Germany didn't just wake up one day and find everyone was a Nazi and ovens had appeared.
It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
Exactly this. In hindsight, the 1919 Treaty of Versailles financially stuffed the Germans, and when people are poor, they look to blame easy targets, and "others", those that aren't like you, are always an easy target.It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
We see it today, and the stuff about immigrants and stopping the boats. We hear the language of 30s Germany all the time. Millions of people in this country thought they are poor because of untrustworthy Europeans. So we got shot of the EU and they are still poor. So now it's small boats that are making them poor. But it's not people in small boats that are making them poor, it's people in private jets and yachts.
The PM refuses to go after the co directors who scammed £4.3bn in fake covid loans, because it's not cost effective. But we can send 5 police cars to arrest a fare dodger or shop lifter, which isn't cost effective. I actually think we should deal with £10 shoplifters and £5 fare dodgers, but also Michelle Moan and her ilk. This govt aren't tough on crime, but tough on working class crime.
If pounds were seconds, we know what 10 seconds is, but 4.3 billion seconds is 136 years. (probably got that wrong, but it's a long time
)People love a winner and they also like scapegoats to hate and abuse. In the early years Hitler gave the German people both.
However there was already a deep vein of antisemitism in Germany and Eastern Europe and he got enthusiastic support for punishing the Jews (although of course not all would have supported the final solution had they known about it).
I read this book many years ago:
Hitler's Willing Executioners
Book by Daniel Goldhagen
Actually I only made it half way through. I was losing what faith I had left in humanity so gave up.
However there was already a deep vein of antisemitism in Germany and Eastern Europe and he got enthusiastic support for punishing the Jews (although of course not all would have supported the final solution had they known about it).
I read this book many years ago:
Hitler's Willing Executioners
Book by Daniel Goldhagen
Actually I only made it half way through. I was losing what faith I had left in humanity so gave up.
nuyorican said:
People are much more educated these days. It's a trick of the left to say that people are thick and racist and are blaming immigrants for their problems.
People in general don't blame immigrants, they're only trying to better their lot in life for them and their family by moving to a rich western country. Nobody blames them for that. But the unlimited and uncontrolled nature of it causes problems in the new countries, and the blame for that is purely the fault of the government and the useful idiots on the left.
Are they?People in general don't blame immigrants, they're only trying to better their lot in life for them and their family by moving to a rich western country. Nobody blames them for that. But the unlimited and uncontrolled nature of it causes problems in the new countries, and the blame for that is purely the fault of the government and the useful idiots on the left.
Go look in NP&E at some of the utter filth that comes up on threads about migrants.
I'm really not convinced.
NRG1976 said:
Just finished watching the final season of Das Boot and I just wondered did most Germans actively support Nazism?
There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
There was nothing unique in the German people or Nazism. Goebbels explained fairly plainly how it was done - propaganda, mostly fear. The population was made to feel fear and then given a scapegoat to blame, which they gladly and viciously turned on. There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
nuyorican said:
People are much more educated these days. It's a trick of the left to say that people are thick and racist and are blaming immigrants for their problems.
People in general don't blame immigrants, they're only trying to better their lot in life for them and their family by moving to a rich western country. Nobody blames them for that.
This has got to be sarcasm, surely? People in general don't blame immigrants, they're only trying to better their lot in life for them and their family by moving to a rich western country. Nobody blames them for that.
NRG1976 said:
Just finished watching the final season of Das Boot and I just wondered did most Germans actively support Nazism?
There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
You don't need a historian, you just need to look back over the past 4 years to see how easy it for people to be manipulated.There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
Individually, everyone single person can review their actions and thoughts over the past 4 years and they will know if they would have been manipulated to support Nazism.
There are many examples we could use but if you were out on a Thursday evening banging pans in 'support' of the NHS, you would have been the person supporting the authorities in 1930's Germany.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Germany didn't just wake up one day and find everyone was a Nazi and ovens had appeared.
It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free The Germans 1933 -45It was a slow steady drip drip of poison persuading normal people like you and me that other people were to blame for all of their problems.
It's why when people caution against politicians using "the language of 1930's Germany" they don't literally mean putting on Jackboots they mean the language and rhetoric that led to what happened.
"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
Read this book -
It gives a very good account of what life was like in Germany in the years 1933 to 1939 and how outsiders (mainly Brits and Americans) saw what was going on in Germany in those years. By and large, the impression was favourable.
As an 18 year old, Eric Brown (the famous test pilot) was very impressed with what was going on - until he began to realise there was an underlying evil at work behind the glitz, the pomp, the national pride and the (apparent) improvement in the economy.
It gives a very good account of what life was like in Germany in the years 1933 to 1939 and how outsiders (mainly Brits and Americans) saw what was going on in Germany in those years. By and large, the impression was favourable.
As an 18 year old, Eric Brown (the famous test pilot) was very impressed with what was going on - until he began to realise there was an underlying evil at work behind the glitz, the pomp, the national pride and the (apparent) improvement in the economy.
Today’s nudge politics is the modern equivalent of Goebbels’ propaganda.
Don’t forget that what Goebbels was doing was new, people hadn’t seen it before and weren’t savvy to the techniques.
So when the News tells them something, or a Minister says that something is true, they were unlikely to question the validity of the statement.
The best trick that the Nazi regime used was to keep a close watch on how the message was received, again a pretty new tactic. The Ministry of Reich Propaganda pushed in a direction which the public were broadly receptive to:
It’s not your fault, it’s the Jewish conspiracy that snatched victory in WW1 from us & then imposed the treaty of Versailles on us.
And then threw in a logical fallacy:
And see Mr. Goldberg, he isn’t poor. Yet you are!
Ignoring that Mr. Goldberg wasn’t rich because he was Jewish but because he was careful with his money and hard working.
Seductive isn’t it.
Easy rhetoric with obvious scapegoats & simple solutions.
Today’s nudge politics works the same way, albeit to less nefarious ends.
The push for diesel cars & the scrappage scheme which has now been replaced with the push for EV’s & the demonisation of Diesel. You think you are too smart to fall for it, but look at the bulk of the population of thus country.
If the Holocaust was repeated in any other modern western country, using comparable modern propaganda techniques including social media & government experts & celebrities it would work.
No-one would question or care why that hotel in Margate that was full of immigrants who made you feel uncomfortable when you walked by was now empty & was being refurbished to become an NHS old people’s home.
No-one would care that the homeless had disappeared from our city streets, or that the Border Force personnel were now armed.
A few would care that the gay clubs were closed & that pride week was cancelled, but it’s all swept up under the carpet of ‘War on Woke’. As would the new classes on social responsibility in school that praise a monogamous man+woman+children family unit and demonise Isalm.
We think it could never happen here and the the German people of 1939-1945 are an aberration.
It could, they aren’t.
Thankfully there is no political ideology in this country that even comes close, including Reform UK btw.
But we embrace the delusion that Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China or East Germany’s Stasi couldn’t happen to us at our peril.
Don’t forget that what Goebbels was doing was new, people hadn’t seen it before and weren’t savvy to the techniques.
So when the News tells them something, or a Minister says that something is true, they were unlikely to question the validity of the statement.
The best trick that the Nazi regime used was to keep a close watch on how the message was received, again a pretty new tactic. The Ministry of Reich Propaganda pushed in a direction which the public were broadly receptive to:
It’s not your fault, it’s the Jewish conspiracy that snatched victory in WW1 from us & then imposed the treaty of Versailles on us.
And then threw in a logical fallacy:
And see Mr. Goldberg, he isn’t poor. Yet you are!
Ignoring that Mr. Goldberg wasn’t rich because he was Jewish but because he was careful with his money and hard working.
Seductive isn’t it.
Easy rhetoric with obvious scapegoats & simple solutions.
Today’s nudge politics works the same way, albeit to less nefarious ends.
The push for diesel cars & the scrappage scheme which has now been replaced with the push for EV’s & the demonisation of Diesel. You think you are too smart to fall for it, but look at the bulk of the population of thus country.
If the Holocaust was repeated in any other modern western country, using comparable modern propaganda techniques including social media & government experts & celebrities it would work.
No-one would question or care why that hotel in Margate that was full of immigrants who made you feel uncomfortable when you walked by was now empty & was being refurbished to become an NHS old people’s home.
No-one would care that the homeless had disappeared from our city streets, or that the Border Force personnel were now armed.
A few would care that the gay clubs were closed & that pride week was cancelled, but it’s all swept up under the carpet of ‘War on Woke’. As would the new classes on social responsibility in school that praise a monogamous man+woman+children family unit and demonise Isalm.
We think it could never happen here and the the German people of 1939-1945 are an aberration.
It could, they aren’t.
Thankfully there is no political ideology in this country that even comes close, including Reform UK btw.
But we embrace the delusion that Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China or East Germany’s Stasi couldn’t happen to us at our peril.
Enhance the life / wealth / structure of a population of very poor uneducated people even, if the ideology behind it is self serving and twisted, the masses will vote for you.
See Russia today under Putin and what they and the Chinese are doing in Africa and parts of the Middle East
India is ripe for it too,
Nobody in the modern Western nations has experienced real poverty.
I do understand that many Germans were highly educated but the premise is valid.
See Russia today under Putin and what they and the Chinese are doing in Africa and parts of the Middle East
India is ripe for it too,
Nobody in the modern Western nations has experienced real poverty.
I do understand that many Germans were highly educated but the premise is valid.
The Gauge said:
Robert Carlisle's 'Rise of Evil' is a brilliant watch covering Hitlers rise and how he got there.
Yes it is. Very good performance from all. I particularly like the story arc of Ernst Hanfstaengl and his wife. Not 100% accurate but shows how seductive the whole thing was. NRG1976 said:
Just finished watching the final season of Das Boot and I just wondered did most Germans actively support Nazism?
There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
If you disagreed you were killed weren't you. I guess most Germans just tried to ignore it all.There were a few higher ranking officials who took exception to AH but that seemed to be when it was becoming clear they were losing the war, so self preservation was probably at play.
Did a whole nation really just lose their minds and moral compass and think nazism was a great idea, or was it just a pure manipulation on the part of a few crazy people and an obtuse population?
Any good historians on here who could answer this question please?
TX.
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