What if defunct manufacturers were still in existence…?
Discussion
Having read Andrew Everett’s piece in the latest Classic World magazine, it has left me thinking about how different the car world would be if certain manufacturers or brands still existed today.
He describes an imagined world where old British Manufacturers still exist Austin/Morris/MG/Rover and so on and what their model ranges and new cars might have been today. It’s definitely thought provoking.
It’s something I often wonder about, (particularly in relation to MG/Rover, Land Rover, Rolls) what would’ve happened if BMW had held onto them all as a collective and not just kept hold of the Rolls Royce and MINI name and spun them into ‘brands’.
I can understand why they got rid of the bits the didn’t want (finances) but ultimately I wonder whether they could have been successful in retaining all brands, juxtaposing them differently as to now outcompete the BMW marque but to complement it and fill in the gaps.
Picture this. The Range Rover developed into a far more reliable car, it had a better engine range than ever before, particularly in terms of diesels, and was in a position in the market as a luxury and capable off road vehicle, but in now ways sporty or exciting to drive: that would’ve been the X5’s bag.
The Defender still looks the same but has offered a straight 6 diesel and now feels less like a tractor.
Then there’s the Rover 75. An evolution of the original 75, now based on a 5 series platform, but with no ‘sporty’ models, just luxury, old man spec available. The 5 series remains popular with those wanting a ‘premium’ car but with a more driver focused feel, and larger engine options are available here over the Rover option. But there’s no MG version, as there was with the old ZT…
That’s because MG offers a much different experience. They have a lightweight sports car still. The BMW Z4 plugs the gap to rival offerings from Mercedes etc, but MG offers a lighter more track focused 2 seater sports car… think MX5 rival. Hot hatches are back and MG have offered the perfect Golf rival, and now a hot super mini option to rival the GR Yaris.
Furthermore, did anyone order a lightweight, mid-engined coupe with an MG badge and BMW knowhow!?
Meanwhile MINI grew much as is true in the ‘real’ world, but retained its genuine credentials as a British car still being under the wings or Rover.
Rolls Royce? Still does big cars in a beautiful and eye-wateringly expensive ways!
I’ve imagined this for some time, as you can probably tell
, as I like BMW and thus their era Rover/LR’s.
What about the other long lost British brands?
Then there’s others too. It’s a shame that Saab is not longer about. Can’t help but think that Saab could have fitted into the Stellantis lineup as the premium brand, instead of their many other brands now trying to be premium.
It’s interesting to think that if GM had ended up with Jaguar and not Ford, and in turn Ford had ended up with Saab, we could be looking at a completely different last decade!
Fantasising over, and some will say that these old brands are gone because they were crap, or better off left behind in their era, but I’m not so sure.
He describes an imagined world where old British Manufacturers still exist Austin/Morris/MG/Rover and so on and what their model ranges and new cars might have been today. It’s definitely thought provoking.
It’s something I often wonder about, (particularly in relation to MG/Rover, Land Rover, Rolls) what would’ve happened if BMW had held onto them all as a collective and not just kept hold of the Rolls Royce and MINI name and spun them into ‘brands’.
I can understand why they got rid of the bits the didn’t want (finances) but ultimately I wonder whether they could have been successful in retaining all brands, juxtaposing them differently as to now outcompete the BMW marque but to complement it and fill in the gaps.
Picture this. The Range Rover developed into a far more reliable car, it had a better engine range than ever before, particularly in terms of diesels, and was in a position in the market as a luxury and capable off road vehicle, but in now ways sporty or exciting to drive: that would’ve been the X5’s bag.
The Defender still looks the same but has offered a straight 6 diesel and now feels less like a tractor.
Then there’s the Rover 75. An evolution of the original 75, now based on a 5 series platform, but with no ‘sporty’ models, just luxury, old man spec available. The 5 series remains popular with those wanting a ‘premium’ car but with a more driver focused feel, and larger engine options are available here over the Rover option. But there’s no MG version, as there was with the old ZT…
That’s because MG offers a much different experience. They have a lightweight sports car still. The BMW Z4 plugs the gap to rival offerings from Mercedes etc, but MG offers a lighter more track focused 2 seater sports car… think MX5 rival. Hot hatches are back and MG have offered the perfect Golf rival, and now a hot super mini option to rival the GR Yaris.
Furthermore, did anyone order a lightweight, mid-engined coupe with an MG badge and BMW knowhow!?
Meanwhile MINI grew much as is true in the ‘real’ world, but retained its genuine credentials as a British car still being under the wings or Rover.
Rolls Royce? Still does big cars in a beautiful and eye-wateringly expensive ways!
I’ve imagined this for some time, as you can probably tell
, as I like BMW and thus their era Rover/LR’s. What about the other long lost British brands?
Then there’s others too. It’s a shame that Saab is not longer about. Can’t help but think that Saab could have fitted into the Stellantis lineup as the premium brand, instead of their many other brands now trying to be premium.
It’s interesting to think that if GM had ended up with Jaguar and not Ford, and in turn Ford had ended up with Saab, we could be looking at a completely different last decade!
Fantasising over, and some will say that these old brands are gone because they were crap, or better off left behind in their era, but I’m not so sure.
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Having read Andrew Everett’s piece in the latest Classic World magazine, it has left me thinking about how different the car world would be if certain manufacturers or brands still existed today.
He describes an imagined world where old British Manufacturers still exist Austin/Morris/MG/Rover and so on and what their model ranges and new cars might have been today. It’s definitely thought provoking.
It’s something I often wonder about, (particularly in relation to MG/Rover, Land Rover, Rolls) what would’ve happened if BMW had held onto them all as a collective and not just kept hold of the Rolls Royce and MINI name and spun them into ‘brands’.
I can understand why they got rid of the bits the didn’t want (finances) but ultimately I wonder whether they could have been successful in retaining all brands, juxtaposing them differently as to now outcompete the BMW marque but to complement it and fill in the gaps.
Picture this. The Range Rover developed into a far more reliable car, it had a better engine range than ever before, particularly in terms of diesels, and was in a position in the market as a luxury and capable off road vehicle, but in now ways sporty or exciting to drive: that would’ve been the X5’s bag.
The Defender still looks the same but has offered a straight 6 diesel and now feels less like a tractor.
Then there’s the Rover 75. An evolution of the original 75, now based on a 5 series platform, but with no ‘sporty’ models, just luxury, old man spec available. The 5 series remains popular with those wanting a ‘premium’ car but with a more driver focused feel, and larger engine options are available here over the Rover option. But there’s no MG version, as there was with the old ZT…
That’s because MG offers a much different experience. They have a lightweight sports car still. The BMW Z4 plugs the gap to rival offerings from Mercedes etc, but MG offers a lighter more track focused 2 seater sports car… think MX5 rival. Hot hatches are back and MG have offered the perfect Golf rival, and now a hot super mini option to rival the GR Yaris.
Furthermore, did anyone order a lightweight, mid-engined coupe with an MG badge and BMW knowhow!?
Meanwhile MINI grew much as is true in the ‘real’ world, but retained its genuine credentials as a British car still being under the wings or Rover.
Rolls Royce? Still does big cars in a beautiful and eye-wateringly expensive ways!
I’ve imagined this for some time, as you can probably tell , as I like BMW and thus their era Rover/LR’s.
What about the other long lost British brands?
Then there’s others too. It’s a shame that Saab is not longer about. Can’t help but think that Saab could have fitted into the Stellantis lineup as the premium brand, instead of their many other brands now trying to be premium.
It’s interesting to think that if GM had ended up with Jaguar and not Ford, and in turn Ford had ended up with Saab, we could be looking at a completely different last decade!
Fantasising over, and some will say that these old brands are gone because they were crap, or better off left behind in their era, but I’m not so sure.
I got halfway through this post and started to feel a sickly dread of dystopian nightmare creeping over me.He describes an imagined world where old British Manufacturers still exist Austin/Morris/MG/Rover and so on and what their model ranges and new cars might have been today. It’s definitely thought provoking.
It’s something I often wonder about, (particularly in relation to MG/Rover, Land Rover, Rolls) what would’ve happened if BMW had held onto them all as a collective and not just kept hold of the Rolls Royce and MINI name and spun them into ‘brands’.
I can understand why they got rid of the bits the didn’t want (finances) but ultimately I wonder whether they could have been successful in retaining all brands, juxtaposing them differently as to now outcompete the BMW marque but to complement it and fill in the gaps.
Picture this. The Range Rover developed into a far more reliable car, it had a better engine range than ever before, particularly in terms of diesels, and was in a position in the market as a luxury and capable off road vehicle, but in now ways sporty or exciting to drive: that would’ve been the X5’s bag.
The Defender still looks the same but has offered a straight 6 diesel and now feels less like a tractor.
Then there’s the Rover 75. An evolution of the original 75, now based on a 5 series platform, but with no ‘sporty’ models, just luxury, old man spec available. The 5 series remains popular with those wanting a ‘premium’ car but with a more driver focused feel, and larger engine options are available here over the Rover option. But there’s no MG version, as there was with the old ZT…
That’s because MG offers a much different experience. They have a lightweight sports car still. The BMW Z4 plugs the gap to rival offerings from Mercedes etc, but MG offers a lighter more track focused 2 seater sports car… think MX5 rival. Hot hatches are back and MG have offered the perfect Golf rival, and now a hot super mini option to rival the GR Yaris.
Furthermore, did anyone order a lightweight, mid-engined coupe with an MG badge and BMW knowhow!?
Meanwhile MINI grew much as is true in the ‘real’ world, but retained its genuine credentials as a British car still being under the wings or Rover.
Rolls Royce? Still does big cars in a beautiful and eye-wateringly expensive ways!
I’ve imagined this for some time, as you can probably tell
, as I like BMW and thus their era Rover/LR’s. What about the other long lost British brands?
Then there’s others too. It’s a shame that Saab is not longer about. Can’t help but think that Saab could have fitted into the Stellantis lineup as the premium brand, instead of their many other brands now trying to be premium.
It’s interesting to think that if GM had ended up with Jaguar and not Ford, and in turn Ford had ended up with Saab, we could be looking at a completely different last decade!
Fantasising over, and some will say that these old brands are gone because they were crap, or better off left behind in their era, but I’m not so sure.
I think that's enough pistonheads for today.
^ quite.
A better future would one like that in which Saab The Innovator /wasn't/ taken over by GM: and their already -in-development engine variable-compression, highly turbocharged lump - /wasn't/ killed by GM / let Saab show a better, more efficient future..: 225hp from 1.6 litres, 25yrs ago, with several million miles of road-testing complete.
yeah - that's 1.6 liter, 5-cylinder engine produced 147 lb.-ft. of torque and 150 horsepower per liter of engine displacement nr 25yrs ago; and damn near ready for Production.
A better future would one like that in which Saab The Innovator /wasn't/ taken over by GM: and their already -in-development engine variable-compression, highly turbocharged lump - /wasn't/ killed by GM / let Saab show a better, more efficient future..: 225hp from 1.6 litres, 25yrs ago, with several million miles of road-testing complete.
yeah - that's 1.6 liter, 5-cylinder engine produced 147 lb.-ft. of torque and 150 horsepower per liter of engine displacement nr 25yrs ago; and damn near ready for Production.
Edited by Huff on Tuesday 23 January 18:25
I'm not aware of Rolls Royce being part of the collective. The nearest connection that I'm aware of being Pressed Steel Ltd who built some bodies for Rolls Royce.
I believe BMW bought the RR name from Rolls Royce Aerospace sidestepping VAG Group who got the Crewe factory, with just the Bentley name.
I think the Honda period may have been Austin Rover's best chance of survival and growth. To my mind BMW weren't interested in much of the company.
Sadly I don't think people buying a hybrid or electric MG suv are thinking about the Morris Garages brand or history. I think their motivation is just getting quite a lot of suv for their money.
Saab probably had too small a market share, ie profit, to continue developing new products. That's regardless of who owned them for the last few years. So what could you do, build Saab badged cars of the parent company ? That would have alienated their existing customer base who liked Saabs because they were different. That was already beginning to happen with the GM based vehicles. Even putting a Saab body 'top hat' on a GM chassis would never recover the development costs or fund the factory in the future.
As you say it's interesting to consider all this stuff, sadly though what's done is done. Lots of brands & peoples employment have been lost unfortunately.
I believe BMW bought the RR name from Rolls Royce Aerospace sidestepping VAG Group who got the Crewe factory, with just the Bentley name.
I think the Honda period may have been Austin Rover's best chance of survival and growth. To my mind BMW weren't interested in much of the company.
Sadly I don't think people buying a hybrid or electric MG suv are thinking about the Morris Garages brand or history. I think their motivation is just getting quite a lot of suv for their money.
Saab probably had too small a market share, ie profit, to continue developing new products. That's regardless of who owned them for the last few years. So what could you do, build Saab badged cars of the parent company ? That would have alienated their existing customer base who liked Saabs because they were different. That was already beginning to happen with the GM based vehicles. Even putting a Saab body 'top hat' on a GM chassis would never recover the development costs or fund the factory in the future.
As you say it's interesting to consider all this stuff, sadly though what's done is done. Lots of brands & peoples employment have been lost unfortunately.
gt40steve said:
.Even putting a Saab body 'top hat' on a GM chassis would never recover the development costs or fund the factory in the future.
I'm not sure what Saab could have done; whatever innovations the home team could dream up they'd waste them in a sloppy, wayward fwd platform!Volvo are doing alright, but then they Geely-prem so it's hard to say what an indie version would look like!
AmyRichardson said:
gt40steve said:
.Even putting a Saab body 'top hat' on a GM chassis would never recover the development costs or fund the factory in the future.
I'm not sure what Saab could have done; whatever innovations the home team could dream up they'd waste them in a sloppy, wayward fwd platform!Volvo are doing alright, but then they Geely-prem so it's hard to say what an indie version would look like!
gt40steve said:
Sadly I don't think people buying a hybrid or electric MG suv are thinking about the Morris Garages brand or history.
A few years ago, before the MG revival took off in the UK, I drove past a showroom in Phnom Penh that was branded "Morris Garages." I was amazed that they had decided to give the full name such prominence, but actually they make a point of referring to it in their marketing as a treasured British brand with nearly a century of heritage. I'd quite like to see what a proper Rover for the 2010s/2020s would be like in an alternate history where they didn't go into a joint venture with Honda (look up the 1993 Honda Crossroad if you don't know what that is) and actually did some proper new designs instead of relying on a shoestring development budget.
New design of V8, obvs. Competition to the V8 5 series, or would it have been the slightly more sophisticated competitor to the Monaro/VXR8?
Also... I'd have Citroen back. No, not rebadged Peugeot. Citroen. They'd still be doing proper whacky Citroen stuff instead of generic bland bleurgh. With proper wifty wafty oleopneumatic suspension instead of the marketing w
k that the DS cars ride on.
New design of V8, obvs. Competition to the V8 5 series, or would it have been the slightly more sophisticated competitor to the Monaro/VXR8?
Also... I'd have Citroen back. No, not rebadged Peugeot. Citroen. They'd still be doing proper whacky Citroen stuff instead of generic bland bleurgh. With proper wifty wafty oleopneumatic suspension instead of the marketing w
k that the DS cars ride on. In 1998, Bernd Pischetsrieder, head of BMW, announced that the Riley marque was to return as a coupe based on the Rover R40 platform and powered by a three litre version of the 24 valve, quad-cam KV6 engine. Fortunately a year or two later he left BMW for VW and the project never went ahead, thankfully.
In 2010 there were rumours that a Riley Elf, based on the MINI was on the cards. It too never progressed.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
In 2010 there were rumours that a Riley Elf, based on the MINI was on the cards. It too never progressed.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
I always thought it was a shame that the BMW Z3 was never released as an Austin Healey.
A brand that has real cachet in the US still.
Straight 6 power in a 2 seater.
The cars used in the TV series Mad Men are all of iconic status, Cadillac, Lincoln Continental, E-Type & Corvette…
A missed opportunity to ‘do a Mini’.
A brand that has real cachet in the US still.
Straight 6 power in a 2 seater.
The cars used in the TV series Mad Men are all of iconic status, Cadillac, Lincoln Continental, E-Type & Corvette…
A missed opportunity to ‘do a Mini’.
Watcher of the skies said:
Triumph is the real sleeping giant, and probably better known than Riley. Sadly strangled like so many other marques by bmw.
If you look at Triumph & BMW in the early 1970’s they were making very similar product.The Triumph 2500PI was the 535i of it’s day.
Handsome, fast, practical.
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