Modified or not? Insurance

[ro250]

I've had my 440i for 3 years now. It has front splitter, side skirts and boot lip spoiler. I'd never consider them 'mods' and never mentioned to insurance.

When using the comparison sites this year, out of curiosity I put them in as mods to see the impact on price. I later went on to buy a policy with them excluded (last night).

This morning I had an email from the new insurer saying they know I'd done a previous search with the mods, is there something I need to tell them...

As the policy doesn't start for a week, in a slight panic I just went online and cancelled it.

I've since dug out the printed spec which BMW provided by email to the dealer I bought the used car from. The "Aerodynamics package" is there.

So are these declarable mods or not? I'm a bit worried that it may look like I'm trying to hide something (even to my current insurer) but I thought if it was on the build sheet it wasn't a mod?

[DaveCWK]

Lots of people say that al factory modifications/options need to be declared... but realistically, what owner of a 10 year old BMW correctly knows what was standard and what wasn't on their 4-owners lost service history car? It must be single digit %'age

Being reasonable, if it's not something some 3rd party has added, I wouldn't declare it.

[QuickQuack]

Are they a factory fit option from new or were they fitted later, either by you or somebody else? Doesn't matter if they're the manufacturer original parts, if they were fitted afterwards, I'd think they count as modifications. With some insurance companies, they might classify even factory options of that kind such as big splitters, wings etc, as modifications as well (Admiral might from memory).

[ro250]

They are "Ordered options". The (non-BMW) dealer requested from BMW and I have a copy of the email which lists this package alongside a huge list of things like alarm system, reverse camera, alloys, security wheel bolts (i.e. stuff which is standard).

I wish I hadn't mentioned them as I'm now pretty convinced as they're on the build sheet they aren't modifications.

[PistonTim]

ro250 said:

They are "Ordered options". The (non-BMW) dealer requested from BMW and I have a copy of the email which lists this package alongside a huge list of things like alarm system, reverse camera, alloys, security wheel bolts (i.e. stuff which is standard).

I wish I hadn't mentioned them as I'm now pretty convinced as they're on the build sheet they aren't modifications.

There are various websites you can search your VIN to see what was fitted to the car from the factory.

If it's been added since original purchase by you or anyone else then it needs to be declared.

[ro250]

PistonTim said:

ro250 said:

They are "Ordered options". The (non-BMW) dealer requested from BMW and I have a copy of the email which lists this package alongside a huge list of things like alarm system, reverse camera, alloys, security wheel bolts (i.e. stuff which is standard).

I wish I hadn't mentioned them as I'm now pretty convinced as they're on the build sheet they aren't modifications.

There are various websites you can search your VIN to see what was fitted to the car from the factory.

If it's been added since original purchase by you or anyone else then it needs to be declared.

Thanks - It can't have been added since as it's on the email from BMW which I have (which will be what was supplied from new).

[vikingaero]

Insurers often had a standard phrase along the lines of: "Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard specification?" or anything similar to that effect.

A factory fitted option is technically a modification as it does not appear on standard cars. The waters are often muddied by some Insurers not bothered about factory options and others going postal on options and wanting to charge additional premiums. The answer is always, if in doubt then declare it.

And even if you declare the factory fitted options and pay an additional premium, some Insurers have a Standard Parts Replacement Clause (Admiral Group) which in which they will only pay for a standard car or part in the event of an accident/theft.

[tomsugden]

Admiral tried to use this as an excuse to avoid paying me when my Audi S1 was stolen. They said the car had lots of options on it which I hadn't declared, such as pano roof, supersport seats. I pointed out that I didn't tick those boxes as I bought the car second hand, and had no idea what was and wasn't standard.

[swisstoni]

tomsugden said:

Admiral tried to use this as an excuse to avoid paying me when my Audi S1 was stolen. They said the car had lots of options on it which I hadn't declared, such as pano roof, supersport seats. I pointed out that I didn't tick those boxes as I bought the car second hand, and had no idea what was and wasn't standard.

Disingenuous anyway. I don’t class manufacturer options as modifications. If they wanted a list of all options they should have asked for it up front.

A modification is something not in the original spec of the vehicle imho.

[UTH]

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

[ro250]

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

It took me by surprise too. The email referred to a quote I ran a few weeks back including the 'mods'. They must have a tool which compares quotes and purchases (Aviva).

I tried to ring them but they said for their online product they don't offer phone support so they've lost a customer. Whilst I'm now confident it's not a declarable mod, I felt too risky with that insurer as they've queried it and I've no means to discuss with them to clarify.

[UTH]

ro250 said:

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

It took me by surprise too. The email referred to a quote I ran a few weeks back including the 'mods'. They must have a tool which compares quotes and purchases (Aviva).

I tried to ring them but they said for their online product they don't offer phone support so they've lost a customer. Whilst I'm now confident it's not a declarable mod, I felt too risky with that insurer as they've queried it and I've no means to discuss with them to clarify.

Blimey. I can sort of see why they're doing it, as I guess perhaps on the odd occasion it does flag that someone is lying about what they have? But how are they going to follow that up exactly? Send someone round to inspect your car? Surely more often than not like in your case they're just going to lose a customer rather than save the world by stopping someone with a third part carbon splitter having their car insured. Strange.

[alscar]

ro250 said:

I've had my 440i for 3 years now. It has front splitter, side skirts and boot lip spoiler. I'd never consider them 'mods' and never mentioned to insurance.

When using the comparison sites this year, out of curiosity I put them in as mods to see the impact on price. I later went on to buy a policy with them excluded (last night).

This morning I had an email from the new insurer saying they know I'd done a previous search with the mods, is there something I need to tell them...

As the policy doesn't start for a week, in a slight panic I just went online and cancelled it.

I've since dug out the printed spec which BMW provided by email to the dealer I bought the used car from. The "Aerodynamics package" is there.

So are these declarable mods or not? I'm a bit worried that it may look like I'm trying to hide something (even to my current insurer) but I thought if it was on the build sheet it wasn't a mod?

If various options were put on the car at the factory then they are not modifications.
If you are the first owner then you would simply answer any such question with “ nothing fitted that wasn’t fitted originally at the factory “.
Second owners obviously more difficult to know perhaps except as you have the options and build sheet you could answer similarly.

[alscar]

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

When you insured your car did you give the address where it normally is though ?

[geeks]

UTH said:

ro250 said:

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

It took me by surprise too. The email referred to a quote I ran a few weeks back including the 'mods'. They must have a tool which compares quotes and purchases (Aviva).

I tried to ring them but they said for their online product they don't offer phone support so they've lost a customer. Whilst I'm now confident it's not a declarable mod, I felt too risky with that insurer as they've queried it and I've no means to discuss with them to clarify.

Blimey. I can sort of see why they're doing it, as I guess perhaps on the odd occasion it does flag that someone is lying about what they have? But how are they going to follow that up exactly? Send someone round to inspect your car? Surely more often than not like in your case they're just going to lose a customer rather than save the world by stopping someone with a third part carbon splitter having their car insured. Strange.

I had to provide pictures of my car once for similar reasons, turns out previous owner had a body kit fitted that they had removed before selling, I by chance had insured the car with the same insurer as the previous owner and they had it down as being modified which was news to me. A few pictures cleared things up in my instance.

[UTH]

alscar said:

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

When you insured your car did you give the address where it normally is though ?

Yeah, it was insured where it stays. It's now SORNED indefinitely so doesn't matter either way, but I do wonder if I'd have had a similar email for just searching about maybe moving it to where I lived?

[ro250]

UTH said:

ro250 said:

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

It took me by surprise too. The email referred to a quote I ran a few weeks back including the 'mods'. They must have a tool which compares quotes and purchases (Aviva).

I tried to ring them but they said for their online product they don't offer phone support so they've lost a customer. Whilst I'm now confident it's not a declarable mod, I felt too risky with that insurer as they've queried it and I've no means to discuss with them to clarify.

Blimey. I can sort of see why they're doing it, as I guess perhaps on the odd occasion it does flag that someone is lying about what they have? But how are they going to follow that up exactly? Send someone round to inspect your car? Surely more often than not like in your case they're just going to lose a customer rather than save the world by stopping someone with a third part carbon splitter having their car insured. Strange.

I suppose it comes into play should I ever claim? It's very Big Brother as I didn't think for a moment that running quotes I didn't go on to buy would be looked at by anyone.

[alscar]

UTH said:

Yeah, it was insured where it stays. It's now SORNED indefinitely so doesn't matter either way, but I do wonder if I'd have had a similar email for just searching about maybe moving it to where I lived?

Yup it did sound either very coincidental timing or they are using sophisticated tracking on their systems ?!
I guess putting a search in as a new customer with a different postcode ( very close match obviously ) is perhaps the way to do it ?

[UTH]

ro250 said:

UTH said:

ro250 said:

UTH said:

I'm intrigued to know what that email said exactly? Are they really following up on things like that? What's to say you're not looking to buy a new car and looking at various options, one of which is modded and one isn't? Seems a fair thing to compare, no? I must say, it's quite astute of them, but also it seems a bit much!

I currently have a car that doesn't stay where I live. If I ever wanted to move it to where I live, I'd do a search on insurance with this new address and see if it changed the premium. If it did, I might just not bother. Would I then get an email asking if there's something I want to tell them about where the car is?!

It took me by surprise too. The email referred to a quote I ran a few weeks back including the 'mods'. They must have a tool which compares quotes and purchases (Aviva).

I tried to ring them but they said for their online product they don't offer phone support so they've lost a customer. Whilst I'm now confident it's not a declarable mod, I felt too risky with that insurer as they've queried it and I've no means to discuss with them to clarify.

Blimey. I can sort of see why they're doing it, as I guess perhaps on the odd occasion it does flag that someone is lying about what they have? But how are they going to follow that up exactly? Send someone round to inspect your car? Surely more often than not like in your case they're just going to lose a customer rather than save the world by stopping someone with a third part carbon splitter having their car insured. Strange.

I suppose it comes into play should I ever claim? It's very Big Brother as I didn't think for a moment that running quotes I didn't go on to buy would be looked at by anyone.

Yeah that's what does surprise me. Surely it only matters if you have a big prang, try and make a claim, and then at that point they see your car wasn't as described and they walk away laughing?

[EmilA]

I've updated my policy and changed cars. They asked if the vehicle has parts fitted by someone other than the manufacturer, since the answer was no it ended there. A change on wording but it would apply to you, therefore not a modification IMO.