One for the Oxbridge graduates
Discussion
I am aware that some PHers are graduates of Oxford and Cambridge and I would value some input please.
One of my children was interviewed by a Cambridge college and not offered a place. They have applied for the reason (standard process I gather) but are yet to hear.
Their teachers have all said "you're bright enough, try again next year". They also have a mentor, who has said the same.
They intend to read history and do a law conversion, in London probably. They have four offers from other universities and 3xA* mocks (just completed).
My personal view is that the child is bright and very hard working, but not super, super bright and I am concerned about the volume of work required by Cambridge as opposed to somewhere like Durham / Bristol / Warwick. I want them to enjoy the experience of Uni as much as obtaining a degree.
Also, I am not particularly persuaded that obtaining an Oxbridge degree is going to make a GREAT deal of difference, and a 1st from somewhere else might be as useful, with the added benefit that a year will have been saved if they don't take a year out.
Can anyone with an Oxbridge degree please comment on this?
One of my children was interviewed by a Cambridge college and not offered a place. They have applied for the reason (standard process I gather) but are yet to hear.
Their teachers have all said "you're bright enough, try again next year". They also have a mentor, who has said the same.
They intend to read history and do a law conversion, in London probably. They have four offers from other universities and 3xA* mocks (just completed).
My personal view is that the child is bright and very hard working, but not super, super bright and I am concerned about the volume of work required by Cambridge as opposed to somewhere like Durham / Bristol / Warwick. I want them to enjoy the experience of Uni as much as obtaining a degree.
Also, I am not particularly persuaded that obtaining an Oxbridge degree is going to make a GREAT deal of difference, and a 1st from somewhere else might be as useful, with the added benefit that a year will have been saved if they don't take a year out.
Can anyone with an Oxbridge degree please comment on this?
My son did similar for Oxford. Was turned down.
Went on to get 4xAstar A levels and is reading history at York.
Initially he was a bit disappointed, but now thinks not going to Oxbridge was the best thing ever.
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
Went on to get 4xAstar A levels and is reading history at York.
Initially he was a bit disappointed, but now thinks not going to Oxbridge was the best thing ever.
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
Two factors come into play
1) over seas students pay more so economics comes in
2) many apply and its how the interviewer thinks you might fit in.
End of day others are right no one will care a year or so after graduation. If they want to go into law best advice (applies to any career) get some work experience in the summer holidays relevant to the role. Will make a big difference
1) over seas students pay more so economics comes in
2) many apply and its how the interviewer thinks you might fit in.
End of day others are right no one will care a year or so after graduation. If they want to go into law best advice (applies to any career) get some work experience in the summer holidays relevant to the role. Will make a big difference
Jordie Barretts sock said:
My son did similar for Oxford. Was turned down.
Went on to get 4xAstar A levels and is reading history at York.
Initially he was a bit disappointed, but now thinks not going to Oxbridge was the best thing ever.
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
Yep. They have a couple of mates who are already in Cambridge and both are well along the autistic spectrum. Like Duracell bunnies who enthuse about everything, particularly their subject.Went on to get 4xAstar A levels and is reading history at York.
Initially he was a bit disappointed, but now thinks not going to Oxbridge was the best thing ever.
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
Having Oxbridge on your CV does make a difference.
When I started as a trainee accountant with one of the big 4 there was a new joiner who had been to Cambridge (ironically he also studied History). He stood out as being completely unsuitable for accountancy, even on the first day (he was a lovely guy, just not accountant material). He only lasted a few weeks. Turns out he got the job because the partner that interviewed him had been to the same college and they just chatted about cricket and reminisced about college life.
There is a big difference in teaching at Oxbridge because of the tutorial system. You get your main lectures from the university but then have tutorials with an academic in your college. That could be a leading academic and often class sizes are much smaller. It costs a lot more to teach undergraduates at Oxbridge but the university and colleges can afford it because they have so much accumulated wealth and donations.
Having said that, although Oxbridge opens doors it doesn’t guarantee success or that graduates from the other top universities can’t succeed.
When I started as a trainee accountant with one of the big 4 there was a new joiner who had been to Cambridge (ironically he also studied History). He stood out as being completely unsuitable for accountancy, even on the first day (he was a lovely guy, just not accountant material). He only lasted a few weeks. Turns out he got the job because the partner that interviewed him had been to the same college and they just chatted about cricket and reminisced about college life.
There is a big difference in teaching at Oxbridge because of the tutorial system. You get your main lectures from the university but then have tutorials with an academic in your college. That could be a leading academic and often class sizes are much smaller. It costs a lot more to teach undergraduates at Oxbridge but the university and colleges can afford it because they have so much accumulated wealth and donations.
Having said that, although Oxbridge opens doors it doesn’t guarantee success or that graduates from the other top universities can’t succeed.
Jordie Barretts sock said:
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
Echoing my son's experience too. This parent reckons you shouldn't worry about it. Let your offspring enjoy their first steps of independence. Nobody will care what university they went to by the time they're 30.
He's in his 3rd year of his Masters in Chemistry at Warwick and loves it there. The Oxbridge feedback he/we got in 2021 just made it not feel right for him.
Oxford graduate here. I sympathise with your child's position, as applying and being accepted by Oxbridge is so much harder now than it was in my day (some 30+ years ago). Competition for places is much higher and there are additional criteria being applied, beyond just A-level grades, for offers to be made. There is certainly some merit in the advice to try again a year later, and in particular to try alternative colleges or courses. Each college will have its own strengths - some might have a better reputation in sciences than arts, for example - so simply applying to a different college may yield results. That was certainly the case for me as I was rejected by my first choice college, but offered a place by my second.
My recollection was that there was indeed a large volume of work for my degree course, and a reasonable amount of pressure to succeed, but it certainly didn't affect my enjoyment of the course, and the four years I spent at Oxford were a fantastic and life-changing experience. That said, I don't know anyone at any other university that didn't have an amazing time as an undergraduate!
We are fortunate in the UK to have many excellent universities which rank highly in the league tables of world universities, so arguably the benefit of an Oxbridge degree over the other universities you mention is only marginal. I believe that having a Masters degree from Oxford helped me in the early stages of my career, and does to this day to a certain extent, but of course as one's career progresses, so the significance of the degree (university and class) diminishes and work achievements matter more on the CV.
My recollection was that there was indeed a large volume of work for my degree course, and a reasonable amount of pressure to succeed, but it certainly didn't affect my enjoyment of the course, and the four years I spent at Oxford were a fantastic and life-changing experience. That said, I don't know anyone at any other university that didn't have an amazing time as an undergraduate!
We are fortunate in the UK to have many excellent universities which rank highly in the league tables of world universities, so arguably the benefit of an Oxbridge degree over the other universities you mention is only marginal. I believe that having a Masters degree from Oxford helped me in the early stages of my career, and does to this day to a certain extent, but of course as one's career progresses, so the significance of the degree (university and class) diminishes and work achievements matter more on the CV.
I had/have quite a few Army Officer mates and colleagues that went to both unis (their UOTC's are very well funded, as much money as all the rest put together is what I heard).
There's no differences I can see though by the time they're a few years into their careers, maybe the transition from Uni to Sandhurst is easier when you already come from somewhere that looks like Hogwarts. Not even joking that was probably the biggest difference I saw, I struggled with the etiquette coming from my background whereas it was old hat for them, just remember your FRTs (f
king Red Trousers).
I went to look round Cambridge but never got as far as an interview, I knew it wasn't for me, lucky as I didn't get the grades. Anyway my 1st Class degree was easy in comparison to their degrees which when you're not that arsed about academics was a nice bonus.
There's no differences I can see though by the time they're a few years into their careers, maybe the transition from Uni to Sandhurst is easier when you already come from somewhere that looks like Hogwarts. Not even joking that was probably the biggest difference I saw, I struggled with the etiquette coming from my background whereas it was old hat for them, just remember your FRTs (f
king Red Trousers).I went to look round Cambridge but never got as far as an interview, I knew it wasn't for me, lucky as I didn't get the grades. Anyway my 1st Class degree was easy in comparison to their degrees which when you're not that arsed about academics was a nice bonus.
I went to Sheffield Hallam (former polytechnic) at the age of 28 for a mechanical engineering degree, purely to get a foot in a door for a job. Where I went has ever been an issue. It's all snobbery.
"read" history for example. You never hear that phrase for the more mainstream universities.
"read" history for example. You never hear that phrase for the more mainstream universities.
Jordie Barretts sock said:
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
.
Oxbridge have shorter terms (8 weeks) than other unis, and this is reflected in the pace at which you have to work. Therefore, doing non-uni stuff during term time is that much harder. When I went there (long time ago) no-one did paid work during term time (but then that was pre-tuition fees), except working in the college bar; it probably is still the case that external paid work during term time is forbidden..
But the idea that there are no extra-curricular activities is frankly ********s. Bear in mind that every college is effectively a mini university when it comes to things like sports/drama/music, so there are inter-college competitions for everything, or at least college-specific groups for many activities.
Sounds like the head of sixth form had a chip on their shoulder? If a child is really working hard to get A*s then they may well struggle at Oxbridge, but if they are (very) academic and self-motivated then there's no reason not to go. As a practical matter, I would suggest that if they can find employment for a year , that is relevant to their subject, taking a gap year and applying again is not a bad strategy. Ultimately though, you have to ask yourself whether you trust someone (whoever is making the admissions decision) who sees (and teaches) Oxbridge students day-in, day-out and probably has seen a fair number struggle and drop out after their first year: in the absence of a crystal ball, I think that's the best you can do: struggling in that environment is going to be miserable.
My Stepson is in his 4th year at Oxford, its a fabulous environment to study & I still think that an Oxbridge education will help get a foot in the door at certain places (i.e. the city...). But I would also echo what's been said above, I do beleive that there are a lot of students on the spectrum & that focus helps them get through the volume of work required & from what I see even during the "holidays" there is maybe 3-4 days off over the 6 weeks, with the remainder spent studying from 8am - 6pm in his room.
His brother failed to get in to Oxford & is in his second year at UCL & my daughter didn't bother applying, whilst she may not have got the grades (predicted 2 x A* & 1 x A) she had no interest in the 100% focus on work, hopefully she'll get the results for her first choice of Nottingham. Those two will certainly end up more rounded individuals & better able to function in real life. I'm not sure that being able to cope/thrive in an Oxbridge environment means you are best prepped for the 'outside' world if you catch my drift....
His brother failed to get in to Oxford & is in his second year at UCL & my daughter didn't bother applying, whilst she may not have got the grades (predicted 2 x A* & 1 x A) she had no interest in the 100% focus on work, hopefully she'll get the results for her first choice of Nottingham. Those two will certainly end up more rounded individuals & better able to function in real life. I'm not sure that being able to cope/thrive in an Oxbridge environment means you are best prepped for the 'outside' world if you catch my drift....
Thanks for the replies so far.
Some comments:
When we went to Cambridge to look around it was FULL of oriental parents, some of whom thought the University really was Hogwarts, I think.
One of the friends I mentioned was talking about the workload and mental health. He said that there were a lot of mental health issues at Cambridge, but that as a consequence Cambridge is very good at dealing with them!
The other friend has actually dropped out of Cambridge twice and been invited back. Apparently once you are in you are "in" and 98.5% graduate.
onetwothreefour said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
As his head of Sixth Form said " you don't want to go there, they're all bloody autistic anyway'. Which I think is his way of saying there is too much focus on academia and not enough extra curricular activity. Like having a job (bar, Maccies, etc) is frowned upon or forbidden.
.
Oxbridge have shorter terms (8 weeks) than other unis, and this is reflected in the pace at which you have to work. Therefore, doing non-uni stuff during term time is that much harder. When I went there (long time ago) no-one did paid work during term time (but then that was pre-tuition fees), except working in the college bar; it probably is still the case that external paid work during term time is forbidden..
But the idea that there are no extra-curricular activities is frankly ********s. Bear in mind that every college is effectively a mini university when it comes to things like sports/drama/music, so there are inter-college competitions for everything, or at least college-specific groups for many activities.
Sounds like the head of sixth form had a chip on their shoulder? If a child is really working hard to get A*s then they may well struggle at Oxbridge, but if they are (very) academic and self-motivated then there's no reason not to go. As a practical matter, I would suggest that if they can find employment for a year , that is relevant to their subject, taking a gap year and applying again is not a bad strategy. Ultimately though, you have to ask yourself whether you trust someone (whoever is making the admissions decision) who sees (and teaches) Oxbridge students day-in, day-out and probably has seen a fair number struggle and drop out after their first year: in the absence of a crystal ball, I think that's the best you can do: struggling in that environment is going to be miserable.
Not directly related, but I vaguely recall an American study which found that students who were just about good enough for the very top universities (Harvard/Yale etc) did better if they went to a second tier (where they shone) place rather than being an 'also ran' amongst elite students.
Slowboathome said:
Not directly related, but I vaguely recall an American study which found that students who were just about good enough for the very top universities (Harvard/Yale etc) did better if they went to a second tier (where they shone) place rather than being an 'also ran' amongst elite students.
I think this is subjective to the individuals character traits but can say with some certainty it applied to my education. I work far harder when I’m running at the front whereas if I’m mid tier (or more realistically, the lower quartile in the elite school), my head goes down and I give up. Louis Balfour said:
When we went to Cambridge to look around it was FULL of oriental parents, some of whom thought the University really was Hogwarts, I think
Oriental parents see Oxbridge as the pinnacle and you're a failure if you don't get in. A good YouTube channel to watch is Steven He where he caricatures oriental parents.
Vikingette1 had an offer from Oxford and turned it down in favour of Brumingham-sur-Tarne and absolutely loves student life there. The fallout from her grandparents was biblical. My view was, and still is - her life her choice. She got a first at Brum and is currently doing a Masters there. The first placated the grandparents a little - "but she could have got a first at Oxford..."
Mrs B is an Oxford graduate. She read English, then did a conversion course to Law before embarking on a successful career in the City.
A few years ago, when our son was applying for university, Mrs B actively discouraged him from applying for Oxbridge.
Her argument was that if you're the very best of the best, then Oxbridge is a wonderful opportunity. However, if you're merely very bright, it's a hard slog, with very little down time for socialising.
Our son ignored her advice and applied anyway.
He got turned down. Instead, he gained a first in history at Warwick and had an absolute blast while doing so.
(I know nothing of these things, having completed one year of andrinking Economics & Geography degree at the prestigious Middlesex Polytechnic, before I was encouraged to leave.)
A few years ago, when our son was applying for university, Mrs B actively discouraged him from applying for Oxbridge.
Her argument was that if you're the very best of the best, then Oxbridge is a wonderful opportunity. However, if you're merely very bright, it's a hard slog, with very little down time for socialising.
Our son ignored her advice and applied anyway.
He got turned down. Instead, he gained a first in history at Warwick and had an absolute blast while doing so.
(I know nothing of these things, having completed one year of an
They are looking for if you fit in. Not whether you're from the 'right sort of family old bean', but whether you'll flourish in the teaching environment there. As already mentioned, terms are shorter and you have to do the same amount of work or more than other unis in that time, so it is more intense. Despite that I found time for plenty of stuff outside of my studies.
I can't speak for Law, but in the industry I'm in the old boys network has long since gone, so Oxbridge doesn't open more doors than any other decent uni. I've also not met anyone who has regretted going to the university that they went to, Oxbridge or otherwise. Make sure you visit anywhere you're considering and get a feel for it and then odds are they'll have a great time whether it's Durham, Warwick or Slough*
I can't speak for Law, but in the industry I'm in the old boys network has long since gone, so Oxbridge doesn't open more doors than any other decent uni. I've also not met anyone who has regretted going to the university that they went to, Oxbridge or otherwise. Make sure you visit anywhere you're considering and get a feel for it and then odds are they'll have a great time whether it's Durham, Warwick or Slough*
- ok maybe not Slough...
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