Does the surveillance bother you?
Discussion
Does the surveillance bother you?
The eCall SOS button in your car is connected to GPS and the mobile phone network and can relay your position to the emergency services. It's in your car and sitting there all the time. Your in-car entertainment system can also be connected independently to the various networks and most people take their phone with them in the car.
In your personal life your mobile phone and computers are all hooked up.
With cash now accounting for such a small percentage of transactions it's fair to say every purchase you make is recorded.
I requested Google send me all the data they have for me... every place I looked at on Google maps, every Google search I've carried out, hardware profiles of all the phones I've owned, some of my photos (not all of them, just a random lump of them from a few years ago) and every comment I made on any YouTube video (not many, but they're all there).
When you walk down the street your movements are being recorded on private CCTV systems in shops, domestic CCTV and doorbells.
All your messages and phone calls are all stored and accessible.
I don't generally break the rules but I do feel like there's a bit too much of this! Am I alone?
The eCall SOS button in your car is connected to GPS and the mobile phone network and can relay your position to the emergency services. It's in your car and sitting there all the time. Your in-car entertainment system can also be connected independently to the various networks and most people take their phone with them in the car.
In your personal life your mobile phone and computers are all hooked up.
With cash now accounting for such a small percentage of transactions it's fair to say every purchase you make is recorded.
I requested Google send me all the data they have for me... every place I looked at on Google maps, every Google search I've carried out, hardware profiles of all the phones I've owned, some of my photos (not all of them, just a random lump of them from a few years ago) and every comment I made on any YouTube video (not many, but they're all there).
When you walk down the street your movements are being recorded on private CCTV systems in shops, domestic CCTV and doorbells.
All your messages and phone calls are all stored and accessible.
I don't generally break the rules but I do feel like there's a bit too much of this! Am I alone?
You can opt out of having a mobile phone, not use Google, choose an old car without an SOS system etc...etc... So the options are there v's the acceptance that there's some level of connectivity.
Aside of say Google on its own (which, granted, is a lot of 'stuff'), you have to consider i) are they really tracking you in a way that they're using / abusing their position; ii) to be extreme, the notion that all of that which you mentioned could be connected to a Govt agency to provide a full insight into your life is a stretch given the general level of competence of Govt - but if they did, it's probably because you're up to no good in a pretty extreme way.
I get where you're coming from on a general basis of not wanting to be a part of a highly observed centralised Chinese-style police state, and at times e.g. past proposal to introduce a National ID card without any reason given, things can be a bit disturbing. But then there are also other things closer to home and more immediate to worry about in life!
Aside of say Google on its own (which, granted, is a lot of 'stuff'), you have to consider i) are they really tracking you in a way that they're using / abusing their position; ii) to be extreme, the notion that all of that which you mentioned could be connected to a Govt agency to provide a full insight into your life is a stretch given the general level of competence of Govt - but if they did, it's probably because you're up to no good in a pretty extreme way.
I get where you're coming from on a general basis of not wanting to be a part of a highly observed centralised Chinese-style police state, and at times e.g. past proposal to introduce a National ID card without any reason given, things can be a bit disturbing. But then there are also other things closer to home and more immediate to worry about in life!
No
I use Google maps tracking history frequently to find photos and places I've been and enjoyed.
I use my CCTV system to alert me when things arrive.
The tiles help me get tea ready for my kids.
I'd find it helpful if I had more access to tracked data, and would quite happily be monitored 24/7.
I use Google maps tracking history frequently to find photos and places I've been and enjoyed.
I use my CCTV system to alert me when things arrive.
The tiles help me get tea ready for my kids.
I'd find it helpful if I had more access to tracked data, and would quite happily be monitored 24/7.
egor110 said:
So if your worried revert back to the 70's 80's.
Leave your mobile at home , pay cash , don't have a modern car that's constantly connected to your phone.
You would still be seen everywhere you go on CCTV of various types. Conventional phone lines are being phased out so in the future all phones will be going through the digital infrastructure and therefore more easily intercepted / recorded. Leave your mobile at home , pay cash , don't have a modern car that's constantly connected to your phone.
Richard-390a0 said:
"All this surveillance" & yet they can't find matey with half his face burnt, so I think I could safely say they'd struggle to find me as a generic average white bloke amongst the sea of similar people around me assuming phone off etc...
What you're exposing with that comment, quite rightly... is that the authorities are now so heavily reliant on digital systems that when somebody goes off grid they find it really difficult to track them down. BigR said:
You can opt out of having a mobile phone, not use Google, choose an old car without an SOS system etc...etc... So the options are there v's the acceptance that there's some level of connectivity.
Aside of say Google on its own (which, granted, is a lot of 'stuff'), you have to consider i) are they really tracking you in a way that they're using / abusing their position; ii) to be extreme, the notion that all of that which you mentioned could be connected to a Govt agency to provide a full insight into your life is a stretch given the general level of competence of Govt - but if they did, it's probably because you're up to no good in a pretty extreme way.
I get where you're coming from on a general basis of not wanting to be a part of a highly observed centralised Chinese-style police state, and at times e.g. past proposal to introduce a National ID card without any reason given, things can be a bit disturbing. But then there are also other things closer to home and more immediate to worry about in life!
Yeah, you make a good point in your last paragraph. We got really close to totalitarianism with the vaccine passports recently. Some clinical staff lost their jobs during that time... but the government pretty quickly u-turned so the damage was fairly limited. Aside of say Google on its own (which, granted, is a lot of 'stuff'), you have to consider i) are they really tracking you in a way that they're using / abusing their position; ii) to be extreme, the notion that all of that which you mentioned could be connected to a Govt agency to provide a full insight into your life is a stretch given the general level of competence of Govt - but if they did, it's probably because you're up to no good in a pretty extreme way.
I get where you're coming from on a general basis of not wanting to be a part of a highly observed centralised Chinese-style police state, and at times e.g. past proposal to introduce a National ID card without any reason given, things can be a bit disturbing. But then there are also other things closer to home and more immediate to worry about in life!
Like many other replies, in general I don't care too much / don't think about it and find some aspects of it useful.
I have, however been heard to reply "p
s off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"
I have, however been heard to reply "p
s off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"David_M said:
Like many other replies, in general I don't care too much / don't think about it and find some aspects of it useful.
I have, however been heard to reply "ps off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"
Write to them and remind them of their responsibilities under GDPR, that'll soon stop it.I have, however been heard to reply "p
s off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domesti...
dundarach said:
David_M said:
Like many other replies, in general I don't care too much / don't think about it and find some aspects of it useful.
I have, however been heard to reply "ps off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"
Write to them and remind them of their responsibilities under GDPR, that'll soon stop it.I have, however been heard to reply "p
s off!" when the automated camera in someone's front garden wakes up when I walk along the pavement and says "You are now being recorded!"https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domesti...
ingenieur said:
Would it bother you if any of the information held about you outside of your control fell into the hands of a third-party who wished to cause you harm? i.e. via a data breach / hack?
This is why there are severe penalties for data controllers and processors to ensure they do their best to keep that data safe. But of course there is a chance something will go wrong, but thats the risk you take - you could get hit by a car or mugged every time you leave the house, does that stop you?Remember things like Google are not free, you agree to use it and its apps in exchange for your data. Thats the currency you are using for access to the capabilities they provide.
It is a choice, if you don't want to use Google or its associated companies you simply don't use them and don't provide your data and those things wont collect your information.
Generally, no it doesn't bother me. Information is generally held in a very decentralised manner with minimal interaction between them. Even if someone had access to the multiple systems then they aren't generally designed to allow for a mass surveillance state (e.g. monitoring what everyone is doing).
In my opinion, a series of private companies holding information on me is better than a single location where the government is in control. The reason for that is what can google do if their data is wrong? Wrong adverts, limit access to my emails and lock my phone. What can the government do - prison, stripping of finances and even kill me (less so in the UK).
Data privacy laws do need to be kept extremely strict, to stop centralisation and manipulation through AI technologies that allow of much greater monitoring of what is going on. Google / Meta / Microsoft are spending a fortune on AI technologies which predict behaviours so they can sell us stuff and yet we still see the wrong adverts. I'm less keen on the state trying the same thing under the remit of 'security'
In my opinion, a series of private companies holding information on me is better than a single location where the government is in control. The reason for that is what can google do if their data is wrong? Wrong adverts, limit access to my emails and lock my phone. What can the government do - prison, stripping of finances and even kill me (less so in the UK).
Data privacy laws do need to be kept extremely strict, to stop centralisation and manipulation through AI technologies that allow of much greater monitoring of what is going on. Google / Meta / Microsoft are spending a fortune on AI technologies which predict behaviours so they can sell us stuff and yet we still see the wrong adverts. I'm less keen on the state trying the same thing under the remit of 'security'
Yes, to a point anyway.
There's a meme that pops up from time to time I like:
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My Smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa.
People who work in Tech: The most recent piece of technology I home in my home is a printer from 2004 and I keep a hammer next to it to use if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
I work in Tech and, there's a grain of truth in it.
Technolgy is mostly benign at the moment, Tech Cos have worked out our fears and it's mostly 'the state' - they understand that motoring enthusiasts will happily commit crime when they think they'll get away with it, Not everyone wants to tell tax collectors about all their income, and no one wants anyone to know about what they do online alone. So they reassure us that our personal data can't and won't be shared and certain data will never ever be recorded to us personally. In return we accept, whether we know it or not, our conversations, our movements and even our most private thoughts (because we will google st we'd never say out loud) are monitored, collated and sold to anyone who wants it. As anonymous market research It might not have our names on it, but it's still there.
This data is not only used for marketing stuff to us, but it drives governmental policy and can be used to market policies to us. It can, and is used by states to attempt to influence and destabilise others.
We could easily reach a point when we're so reliant on tech that we can't live without it, and do we want that amount of leverage in the hands of Meta, Google et al?
There's a meme that pops up from time to time I like:
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My Smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa.
People who work in Tech: The most recent piece of technology I home in my home is a printer from 2004 and I keep a hammer next to it to use if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
I work in Tech and, there's a grain of truth in it.
Technolgy is mostly benign at the moment, Tech Cos have worked out our fears and it's mostly 'the state' - they understand that motoring enthusiasts will happily commit crime when they think they'll get away with it, Not everyone wants to tell tax collectors about all their income, and no one wants anyone to know about what they do online alone. So they reassure us that our personal data can't and won't be shared and certain data will never ever be recorded to us personally. In return we accept, whether we know it or not, our conversations, our movements and even our most private thoughts (because we will google s
t we'd never say out loud) are monitored, collated and sold to anyone who wants it. As anonymous market research It might not have our names on it, but it's still there. This data is not only used for marketing stuff to us, but it drives governmental policy and can be used to market policies to us. It can, and is used by states to attempt to influence and destabilise others.
We could easily reach a point when we're so reliant on tech that we can't live without it, and do we want that amount of leverage in the hands of Meta, Google et al?
Edited by P-Jay on Wednesday 7th February 15:50
Whats interesting is how people always default to the obvious targets. Google etc. Yet 17m+ happily swipe their Nectar card without a thought in the world. Have a look at the privacy policy and data sharing policies and see who it all gets shared with ;-)
Unfortunately Hollywood does give a rather false perception of things, dystopian futures, robot like lives. Its very easy for people to look at something then make that huge leap to Hollywood and worry enough about it.
Unfortunately Hollywood does give a rather false perception of things, dystopian futures, robot like lives. Its very easy for people to look at something then make that huge leap to Hollywood and worry enough about it.
coldel said:
ingenieur said:
Would it bother you if any of the information held about you outside of your control fell into the hands of a third-party who wished to cause you harm? i.e. via a data breach / hack?
This is why there are severe penalties for data controllers and processors to ensure they do their best to keep that data safe. But of course there is a chance something will go wrong, but thats the risk you take - you could get hit by a car or mugged every time you leave the house, does that stop you?Remember things like Google are not free, you agree to use it and its apps in exchange for your data. Thats the currency you are using for access to the capabilities they provide.
It is a choice, if you don't want to use Google or its associated companies you simply don't use them and don't provide your data and those things wont collect your information.
You would have to stop using Google for things like maps and you would not be able to use android mobile phones.
I don't know what would incentivise Google to clear my data from their systems as the threat of your supposed severe penalties don't seem to have facilitated that.
According to GDPR they should not be holding useless data for extended periods. I don't reasonably expect them to be able to dredge up what I searched for on 23rd September 5 years ago so why are they holding that info?
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