Changing 'standard' tyre valves to TPM's
Discussion
Looking for some advice on the following scenario as, what I thought would be a straightforward task, is sounding more complicated after speaking to a couple of tyre fitting places.
Last year, I had all four tyres replaced on the car - two in the spring via Costco and the other two later in the year via Halfords.
I went to Costco because of a deal they had running and had to book a week in advance towards the end of the promotion - when I got there, they advised they were out of stock of TPM valves and only had 'standard' valves so I could either proceed with the 'standard valves' or re-schedule once the TPM valves come back in stock. Re-scheduling would have meant missing the promotion so I went ahead with the 'standard' valves.
Not long after I started to get warning messages on the car about checking tyre pressure etc which I ignored due to it likely being due to the fact the new tyres had 'standard' valves. The plan was to get the valves changed to TPM's when I got the next pair of tyres changed.
A few months later, I went to Halfords to get the other two tyres changed - I only went to Halfords because I had free gift vouchers I was trying to get rid of and, paired with a promotion on the tyres, the price was good. Anyway, I had a nightmare with them where they kept me waiting for hours and, once the tyre fitter got around to my car, he took the wheels off and then went off to lunch. After much complaining, the manager changed the tyres himself and gave me some more free gift vouchers as a GOGW for the poor service. It was only later that I realised they had used 'standard' valves.
The car is still periodically throwing up errors so I am looking to get all of the tyre valves changed to TPM ones.
Called ATS who said there are different types of TPM valves, took my reg and quoted me £275 for the work.
Called ProTyres who said it depends whether the sensors were removed by the tyre fitters.
I'm now confused and worried and wondered if anyone more knowledgeable could give advice on the following:
- Is it likely the tyre fitters would have removed the tyre sensor when fitting the tyres with 'standard' valves?
How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Last year, I had all four tyres replaced on the car - two in the spring via Costco and the other two later in the year via Halfords.
I went to Costco because of a deal they had running and had to book a week in advance towards the end of the promotion - when I got there, they advised they were out of stock of TPM valves and only had 'standard' valves so I could either proceed with the 'standard valves' or re-schedule once the TPM valves come back in stock. Re-scheduling would have meant missing the promotion so I went ahead with the 'standard' valves.
Not long after I started to get warning messages on the car about checking tyre pressure etc which I ignored due to it likely being due to the fact the new tyres had 'standard' valves. The plan was to get the valves changed to TPM's when I got the next pair of tyres changed.
A few months later, I went to Halfords to get the other two tyres changed - I only went to Halfords because I had free gift vouchers I was trying to get rid of and, paired with a promotion on the tyres, the price was good. Anyway, I had a nightmare with them where they kept me waiting for hours and, once the tyre fitter got around to my car, he took the wheels off and then went off to lunch. After much complaining, the manager changed the tyres himself and gave me some more free gift vouchers as a GOGW for the poor service. It was only later that I realised they had used 'standard' valves.
The car is still periodically throwing up errors so I am looking to get all of the tyre valves changed to TPM ones.
Called ATS who said there are different types of TPM valves, took my reg and quoted me £275 for the work.
Called ProTyres who said it depends whether the sensors were removed by the tyre fitters.
I'm now confused and worried and wondered if anyone more knowledgeable could give advice on the following:
- Is it likely the tyre fitters would have removed the tyre sensor when fitting the tyres with 'standard' valves?
How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
I am confused here. Direct TPMS sensors do not need replacing at tyre changing, unless the internal battery has gone (they usually last 7 to 10 years), or there is some corrosion with a leak issue (the dead battery will most likely occur first) . Are you saying that the tyre fitters removed a functioning TPMS? Did they ask for your agreement? I have had tyres changed due to punctures and the TPMS sensors are just left in place. A TPMS equipped car that is non or defectively functioning is a MAJOR at MOT, and thus a fail.
^^^ This. You just change the tyres and leave the valves alone.
Mind you, if the chimp just yanked 'em out and then said "ooops" you should have been on them immediately like a ton of bricks.
What's the car? I think TPMS became mandatory around the end of 2012 so with some vehicles it's not necessarily obvious whether they do or don't have it installed.
Mind you, if the chimp just yanked 'em out and then said "ooops" you should have been on them immediately like a ton of bricks.
What's the car? I think TPMS became mandatory around the end of 2012 so with some vehicles it's not necessarily obvious whether they do or don't have it installed.
SpeedBash said:
- Is it likely the tyre fitters would have removed the tyre sensor when fitting the tyres with 'standard' valves?
How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
You state that you have had standard valves fitted. INSTEAD OF TPMS ONES.How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Most sensors fit directly on the back of a specific valve (not a standard valve), which is often identified by a ridge half way up the valve stem.
From what you said it likely follows you do not have any sensors. ANY MORE.
Perhaps if you google some images of TPMS valve & sensor assemblies you will get an overview of what they look like.
Edited, added writing in capitals for clarity.
Edited by gt40steve on Friday 9th February 19:14
gt40steve said:
SpeedBash said:
- Is it likely the tyre fitters would have removed the tyre sensor when fitting the tyres with 'standard' valves?
How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
You state that you have had standard valves fitted.How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Most sensors fit directly on the back of a specific valve (not a standard valve), which is often identified by a ridge half way up the valve stem.
From what you said it likely follows you do not have any sensors.
Perhaps if you google some images of TPMS valve & sensor assemblies you will get an overview of what they look like.
OP, which system do you have?
If it’s an indirect system, you don’t need special tyre valve sensors, ordinary valves should do;
If it’s a direct system, you do need TPMS valves (and you seem to have been relieved of them, by dodgy tyre fitters ).
Thanks for all the replies particularly as this is looking like it may be an expensive nightmare.
Firstly, with hindsight, it is probably my mistake this has happened - due to lack of knowledge or failing to ask any questions.
For some reason, I was under the impression all the tech for this feature resided in the car and that the tyre valve had a simple chip or sensor in it that communicated the tyre pressure to the car.
So, when the fitter at Costco said they only had 'standard' valves, I thought it wasn't too much of an issue as I could get these swapped out at a later date - this, in my mind, seemed to support my (incorrect) understanding that it was the valve that had a chip or sensor in it because the fitter never mentioned that the sensor is a separate unit attached to the valve and didn't ask me what I wanted to do with the sensor or even attempt to give me the sensor.
Fast forward to when I had the tyres changed at Halfords and the manager actually said to me the sensor resides in the valve so there was no mention of a separate sensor unit or questions asking me what I wanted to do with the sensor unit or actually giving it to me.
After posting this question, I went to a local tyre fitters and had a chat with him and what he has said along with the replies here, I now know what the actual part looks like - picture below.
So, if I have understood correct, I will need to buy four of the below units for my car and have them fitted - when I spoke to ATS (I think) they said the units would have to come from the dealer who would have to programme them for my car - not sure if this is true.
Is there a chance that the Costco/Halfords tyre fitters re-attached the sensor unit to the new valves even though they wouldn't work with them?
BTW, the car is a 2013 Mercedes C-Class Estate.
Firstly, with hindsight, it is probably my mistake this has happened - due to lack of knowledge or failing to ask any questions.
For some reason, I was under the impression all the tech for this feature resided in the car and that the tyre valve had a simple chip or sensor in it that communicated the tyre pressure to the car.
So, when the fitter at Costco said they only had 'standard' valves, I thought it wasn't too much of an issue as I could get these swapped out at a later date - this, in my mind, seemed to support my (incorrect) understanding that it was the valve that had a chip or sensor in it because the fitter never mentioned that the sensor is a separate unit attached to the valve and didn't ask me what I wanted to do with the sensor or even attempt to give me the sensor.
Fast forward to when I had the tyres changed at Halfords and the manager actually said to me the sensor resides in the valve so there was no mention of a separate sensor unit or questions asking me what I wanted to do with the sensor unit or actually giving it to me.
After posting this question, I went to a local tyre fitters and had a chat with him and what he has said along with the replies here, I now know what the actual part looks like - picture below.
So, if I have understood correct, I will need to buy four of the below units for my car and have them fitted - when I spoke to ATS (I think) they said the units would have to come from the dealer who would have to programme them for my car - not sure if this is true.
Is there a chance that the Costco/Halfords tyre fitters re-attached the sensor unit to the new valves even though they wouldn't work with them?
BTW, the car is a 2013 Mercedes C-Class Estate.
Edited by SpeedBash on Friday 9th February 19:13
Pica-Pica said:
gt40steve said:
SpeedBash said:
- Is it likely the tyre fitters would have removed the tyre sensor when fitting the tyres with 'standard' valves?
How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
You state that you have had standard valves fitted.How would I check - by removing the wheels?
- If the sensors are still there, is it a case of a tyre fitter removing the wheel, removing the tyre from the wheel, changing the valves and then putting the tyre and wheel back on?
If so, how much could I expect to pay per wheel?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Most sensors fit directly on the back of a specific valve (not a standard valve), which is often identified by a ridge half way up the valve stem.
From what you said it likely follows you do not have any sensors.
Perhaps if you google some images of TPMS valve & sensor assemblies you will get an overview of what they look like.
OP, which system do you have?
If it’s an indirect system, you don’t need special tyre valve sensors, ordinary valves should do;
If it’s a direct system, you do need TPMS valves (and you seem to have been relieved of them, by dodgy tyre fitters ).
Pica-Pica's last sentence would appear, based on what the OP told us, to sum up the
situation in a neat nutshell.
gt40steve said:
Just added some extra words to my post for clarification.
Pica-Pica's last sentence would appear, based on what the OP told us, to sum up the
situation in a neat nutshell.
Great. Pica-Pica's last sentence would appear, based on what the OP told us, to sum up the
situation in a neat nutshell.
Is it now a case of buying new sensors and having them fitted to the existing valves?
Would they need to be programmed once fitted?
SpeedBash said:
gt40steve said:
Just added some extra words to my post for clarification.
Pica-Pica's last sentence would appear, based on what the OP told us, to sum up the
situation in a neat nutshell.
Great. Pica-Pica's last sentence would appear, based on what the OP told us, to sum up the
situation in a neat nutshell.
Is it now a case of buying new sensors and having them fitted to the existing valves?
Would they need to be programmed once fitted?
I don't know about programming. On my 2016 Focus the sensors self learn. Your car may be different.
Edited by gt40steve on Friday 9th February 19:47
The other factor is, if you do need to fit new sensor valves, the wheels and tyres will need rebalancing. I think that the tyre fitters are at fault here, they are the experts and should have explained that you can keep the sensor valves. Perhaps they still have them. If not, I believe they owe it to you to fit them, or replacements. They have rendered your TPMS ineffective, and I believe, illegal. It would certainly be an MOT major fail.
Pica-Pica said:
The other factor is, if you do need to fit new sensor valves, the wheels and tyres will need rebalancing. I think that the tyre fitters are at fault here, they are the experts and should have explained that you can keep the sensor valves. Perhaps they still have them. If not, I believe they owe it to you to fit them, or replacements. They have rendered your TPMS ineffective, and I believe, illegal. It would certainly be an MOT major fail.
Unfortunately, in both instances, that ship has sailed.If I was aware of this when I had the first set of tyres fitted at Costco, I could have challenged it and I would have been clued up to this when I went to Halfords.
What a right royal fk-up!
BTW, the car went through the MOT in November without issue.
Ok, OP, what valves are fitted to each wheel right now?
If they are standard rubber valves, you should be able to wiggle them slightly.
If they are TPMS valves, they are likely "solid" metal ones where the valve stem is effectively a concentric bolt/nut sandwiching the valve hole in the rim to hold them in place.
If you only have standard valves, and the original TPMS valves are definitely not anywhere in the car (maybe the fitter put them in the glovebox? The spare wheel well?), yes, you can buy aftermarket TPMS instead.
It's not likely, but if you do have the TPMS valves and they're just not working, is there anything else that could be affecting them? A friend was having some very odd intermittent issues with his, and it turned out that the bluetooth OBD2 dongle he had on the car was messing with them.
If they are standard rubber valves, you should be able to wiggle them slightly.
If they are TPMS valves, they are likely "solid" metal ones where the valve stem is effectively a concentric bolt/nut sandwiching the valve hole in the rim to hold them in place.
If you only have standard valves, and the original TPMS valves are definitely not anywhere in the car (maybe the fitter put them in the glovebox? The spare wheel well?), yes, you can buy aftermarket TPMS instead.
It's not likely, but if you do have the TPMS valves and they're just not working, is there anything else that could be affecting them? A friend was having some very odd intermittent issues with his, and it turned out that the bluetooth OBD2 dongle he had on the car was messing with them.
Scrump said:
OP, are you sure your car had Tpms valves? I ask because my 2014 E class does not, it uses wheel speed sensors to detect a difference in tyre diameter.
Does/did your car display actual individual tyre pressures or just have a warning for which tyre was low?
Some cars with valve mounted sensors do not display individual pressures or even say which tyre is low. They simply say 'check tyre pressures'.Does/did your car display actual individual tyre pressures or just have a warning for which tyre was low?
So the last sentence, unfortunately, does not provide a definitive answer to which type of system is fitted. Although if you do have individual pressure read outs, in that case you must have pressure sensors in each tyre.
gt40steve said:
Some cars with valve mounted sensors do not display individual pressures or even say which tyre is low. They simply say 'check tyre pressures'.
So the last sentence, unfortunately, does not provide a definitive answer to which type of system is fitted. Although if you do have individual pressure read outs, in that case you must have pressure sensors in each tyre.
The OP said they have a 2013 C class. This is an extract from an online (American) Mercedes TPMS handbook guidance : So the last sentence, unfortunately, does not provide a definitive answer to which type of system is fitted. Although if you do have individual pressure read outs, in that case you must have pressure sensors in each tyre.
“ On your steering wheel, press the left or right arrow buttons until you get to the "Service" menu. Now press the up or down arrow buttons until you get to the "Tire Pressure" option. Press "OK" and you'll be able to see the tire pressure levels for each tire.”
Hence why I suggested the OP’s car would have individual tyre pressures displayed.
Scrump said:
gt40steve said:
Some cars with valve mounted sensors do not display individual pressures or even say which tyre is low. They simply say 'check tyre pressures'.
So the last sentence, unfortunately, does not provide a definitive answer to which type of system is fitted. Although if you do have individual pressure read outs, in that case you must have pressure sensors in each tyre.
The OP said they have a 2013 C class. This is an extract from an online (American) Mercedes TPMS handbook guidance : So the last sentence, unfortunately, does not provide a definitive answer to which type of system is fitted. Although if you do have individual pressure read outs, in that case you must have pressure sensors in each tyre.
“ On your steering wheel, press the left or right arrow buttons until you get to the "Service" menu. Now press the up or down arrow buttons until you get to the "Tire Pressure" option. Press "OK" and you'll be able to see the tire pressure levels for each tire.”
Hence why I suggested the OP’s car would have individual tyre pressures displayed.
the 0P started his sorry story with his experience at Costco about 'not having the correct TPMS valves' and thus they fitted 'standard valves'. (So he lost his first pair of sensors at that point).
I think we have covered all bases now.
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff