Is the hot hatch dead?
Discussion
Ford, Hyundai, the French and now Honda are out of the hot hatch market. In the UK your options are ze Germans+Mini (ludicrously expensive and/or a bit boring) or the GR Yaris (unobtainable for many).
The hot hatch is probably the cornerstone of the modern British car scene with most people having owned a fast Ford, Honda or Renault somewhere along the line. The Fiesta ST and Renaultsport Clio gave pretty much anyone access to well-engineered drivers' cars that punched well above their weight.
It feels like it has only taken 5 years or so for most of the hot hatch market to just disappear, especially in the B segment. And I think it'll probably kill the car enthusiast community going forward because there's not much left for young drivers to aspire to own as their first fun/quick car.
The hot hatch is probably the cornerstone of the modern British car scene with most people having owned a fast Ford, Honda or Renault somewhere along the line. The Fiesta ST and Renaultsport Clio gave pretty much anyone access to well-engineered drivers' cars that punched well above their weight.
It feels like it has only taken 5 years or so for most of the hot hatch market to just disappear, especially in the B segment. And I think it'll probably kill the car enthusiast community going forward because there's not much left for young drivers to aspire to own as their first fun/quick car.
Certainly seems that way - the push towards EVs and increased profitability seem to have spelt the end of the accessible hot hatch.
Golf Rs, RS3s, A45s aren’t really hot hatches IMO, they’re closer to the rally reps of yesteryear than a traditional hot hatch, they just happen to be hatchback shaped!
I’m not sure about how this will effect younger generations, most of what I’ve seen on FB groups and IG is alot of them just want to jump straight a bland high power German car as quickly as possible….
Golf Rs, RS3s, A45s aren’t really hot hatches IMO, they’re closer to the rally reps of yesteryear than a traditional hot hatch, they just happen to be hatchback shaped!
I’m not sure about how this will effect younger generations, most of what I’ve seen on FB groups and IG is alot of them just want to jump straight a bland high power German car as quickly as possible….
Small-ish market anyway, emissions rules make hot hatches less appealing to include in the range, and of course most of the traditional manufacturers are in the process of suffocating themselves in their desperation to build EVs that nobody actually wants.
Hot hatches are a dying breed right now. Although the trend is for governments and manufacturers to backtrack on foolish "everything electric" policies, so maybe they will make a comeback?
Hot hatches are a dying breed right now. Although the trend is for governments and manufacturers to backtrack on foolish "everything electric" policies, so maybe they will make a comeback?
Edited by sosidge on Friday 23 February 15:11
Beethree said:
Haha i thought the same when they announced today their no longer making I20Ns. All future adverts will contain ‘limited run’ from now on…
Did they only announce it today? Been fairly open knowledge that the facelift i20 wasn't going to get an N, and they have been "pipeline availability" for months (ie you can only order the ones they have already committed to building).sosidge said:
Did they only announce it today? Been fairly open knowledge that the facelift i20 wasn't going to get an N, and they have been "pipeline availability" for months (ie you can only order the ones they have already committed to building).
Yeah seems like it, it seemed to all be pointing that way but have officially confirmed no more ICE N’s for Europe.Yep hothatches are dead, long live 'mild SUV's.
I can't afford anything reasonably fast or fun atm, but I'm not sure I'd want to. Every time I'm driving if its not a risk of a sneaky camera being somewhere, I'm behind someone who does 40mph everywhere, or the ever increasing 20mph if there's any buildings or streetlights in sight, and if you manage to get past them, there's another one round the corner.
I can't afford anything reasonably fast or fun atm, but I'm not sure I'd want to. Every time I'm driving if its not a risk of a sneaky camera being somewhere, I'm behind someone who does 40mph everywhere, or the ever increasing 20mph if there's any buildings or streetlights in sight, and if you manage to get past them, there's another one round the corner.
I think its more of an indication of the death of the conventional family hatchback. Despite having been out quite a while now, I think I've only ever seen one or two of the latest generation Astra, and not many more of the Mk8 Golf.
For faster than usual normal family cars, It's still possible to get a Hyundai Kona N and a Ford Puma ST, as well as the Seat/Cupra and Skoda offerings. We might even see a new Puke Nismo.
In many ways these "sporty" variant of crossovers are closer to the hot hatches of old than the likes of the GR Yaris, as they take a bland family car and make it faster / more interesting whilst still perfectly normal for day to day use.
For faster than usual normal family cars, It's still possible to get a Hyundai Kona N and a Ford Puma ST, as well as the Seat/Cupra and Skoda offerings. We might even see a new Puke Nismo.
In many ways these "sporty" variant of crossovers are closer to the hot hatches of old than the likes of the GR Yaris, as they take a bland family car and make it faster / more interesting whilst still perfectly normal for day to day use.
Actually had a similar thought the other day with the demands for SUV's and lots of people wanting to be high up will it kill off the Hot Hatch?
Then it got me to the scenario of how hot hatches pretty much killed off the British sports car / roadster industry and that gave Mazda and their MX5 the opportunity to dominate the market. So if manufacturers kill off or focus less on their hot hatches, would that give someone else an opportunity to really nail it with the old recipes?
Then it got me to the scenario of how hot hatches pretty much killed off the British sports car / roadster industry and that gave Mazda and their MX5 the opportunity to dominate the market. So if manufacturers kill off or focus less on their hot hatches, would that give someone else an opportunity to really nail it with the old recipes?
Register1 said:
Yes.
A basic Tesla will murder them.
Thats before we pull out the performance.
This always seems to come up, people seem obsessed with straight line speed, a Tesla will not deliver thrills like a Clio 172 will, the Tesla will be faster but you won't be grinning throwing it down a B road the same way that you will in a hot hatch. The 90s and early 00s had the best hot hatches, the choice has been slowly dwindling since then to the point of now, where yes the hot hatch just isn't what it was and never will be.A basic Tesla will murder them.
Thats before we pull out the performance.
I had a 306 GTi-6 many many years back, it was utterly brilliant at everything, as a daily getting me to work, as a track car at the weekend, as something to put a smile on my face on a B road, or even on an empty roundabout, comfy, well equipped, spacious, everything a hot hatch should be. Had a few 172s, great fun to chuck around, not as involved as a GTi-6 though. Currently have a mk7 Golf GTi, for a hot hatch its the best you can get for doing everything, it doesn't handle like the GTi-6 though. I specifically opt out our company car scheme so I can continue driving a hot hatch (plus the tax/financial benefits obviously).
Hot hatches are dead, people seem content with an electric car that'll do 0-60 in 3 seconds, but be utterly boring to throw around.
Beethree said:
sosidge said:
Did they only announce it today? Been fairly open knowledge that the facelift i20 wasn't going to get an N, and they have been "pipeline availability" for months (ie you can only order the ones they have already committed to building).
Yeah seems like it, it seemed to all be pointing that way but have officially confirmed no more ICE N’s for Europe.zedx19 said:
This always seems to come up, people seem obsessed with straight line speed, a Tesla will not deliver thrills like a Clio 172 will, the Tesla will be faster but you won't be grinning throwing it down a B road the same way that you will in a hot hatch. The 90s and early 00s had the best hot hatches, the choice has been slowly dwindling since then to the point of now, where yes the hot hatch just isn't what it was and never will be.
[...]
Hot hatches are dead, people seem content with an electric car that'll do 0-60 in 3 seconds, but be utterly boring to throw around.
Exactly, taking off like a stabbed rat is fun the first few times but all it's really doing is making the bushes go by a bit faster. If you're just driving around town it might as well be a 1.6 diesel, whereas with an actually fun car you can always make it enjoyable by chucking it round a junction on three wheels.[...]
Hot hatches are dead, people seem content with an electric car that'll do 0-60 in 3 seconds, but be utterly boring to throw around.
Manufacturers have just let the sector die but then what do you expect with increasing 20mph limits, speed cameras, poor road maintenance and ULEZ.
Even now, as I mull over changing my low-mile Insignia for a lightly used "performance/sports" car, it comes down to a CTR, a GRY or an MX5-RF.
EVs and SUVs bore me to death so no point handing over cash for no obvious gain. Frankly, a Fiat Panda gets me more enthusiastic.
Even now, as I mull over changing my low-mile Insignia for a lightly used "performance/sports" car, it comes down to a CTR, a GRY or an MX5-RF.
EVs and SUVs bore me to death so no point handing over cash for no obvious gain. Frankly, a Fiat Panda gets me more enthusiastic.
Ultimately a hot hatch is one that blends most of the affordability and practicality of a family hatch with some of the driving enjoyment of a sportscar.
The hot hatch is not dead.
The petrol-powered hot hatch is dying especially in Europe.
Future hot hatches will be BEVs.
With electric power, you no longer have such a trade-off between power and economy.
You're no longer constrained to FF but can be RWD or 4WD.
You can also potentially do more clever stuff with torque distribution.
All of these are advantages when making a hot hatch. There are also challenges - higher weight and lack of a naturally engaging noise.
So future hot hatches will be different from those we've known historically, but that doesn't mean the genre will be extinguished.
The well-received Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is a good recent example (albeit a bit oversized); the Mini E, BMW i3 and Fiat 500e are all examples, but we're still very early in the electric hot hatch story.
The hot hatch is not dead.
The petrol-powered hot hatch is dying especially in Europe.
Future hot hatches will be BEVs.
With electric power, you no longer have such a trade-off between power and economy.
You're no longer constrained to FF but can be RWD or 4WD.
You can also potentially do more clever stuff with torque distribution.
All of these are advantages when making a hot hatch. There are also challenges - higher weight and lack of a naturally engaging noise.
So future hot hatches will be different from those we've known historically, but that doesn't mean the genre will be extinguished.
The well-received Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is a good recent example (albeit a bit oversized); the Mini E, BMW i3 and Fiat 500e are all examples, but we're still very early in the electric hot hatch story.
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