Could this be seen as using a mobile whilst driving?

[Wackywoo105]

The gym I use has a card contolled barrier exit. My card is now in Google wallet, which means my physical card is deactivated and I have to use my phone to exit the gym. The barrier exits onto a road and I am careful to put my phone down before moving off.

It did occur to me that this could be seen as using a phone whilst driving, or is the gym car park classed as private land and thus it's not an issue?

[DavePanda]

No officer in the world would class that as using a mobile while driving, the same as people using their phones to pay for drive thrus despite what rags like the Daily Wail tell you

[agtlaw]

Wackywoo105 said:

The gym I use has a card contolled barrier exit. My card is now in Google wallet, which means my physical card is deactivated and I have to use my phone to exit the gym. The barrier exits onto a road and I am careful to put my phone down before moving off.

It did occur to me that this could be seen as using a phone whilst driving, or is the gym car park classed as private land and thus it's not an issue?

Many road traffic offences are committed if you are driving “on a road or other public place” but the specific mobile phone offence is not one of them. The offence is only made out if you are on “a road.”

Gym car park on private land behind a barrier is probably not a road.

[Aretnap]

DavePanda said:

No officer in the world would class that as using a mobile while driving, the same as people using their phones to pay for drive thrus despite what rags like the Daily Wail tell you

The law does contain a specific exemption for making a contactless payment which, strictly speaking, isn't the same as what the OP's doing. Whether any police officer would be pedantic enough to try to make the distinction is a different question of course.

The question is somewhat academic though in a car park which is intended only for gym members, enforced by a barrier, as there's a very strong arguement that it isn't a road within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act.

[skywalker001]

DavePanda said:

No officer in the world would class that as using a mobile while driving, the same as people using their phones to pay for drive thrus despite what rags like the Daily Wail tell you

its true you are fine

https://youtube.com/shorts/bDw2dTBJJT4?si=tIwQLM8N...

[James6112]

Aretnap said:

The law does contain a specific exemption for making a contactless payment which, strictly speaking, isn't the same as what the OP's doing. Whether any police officer would be pedantic enough to try to make the distinction is a different question of course.

The question is somewhat academic though in a car park which is intended only for gym members, enforced by a barrier, as there's a very strong arguement that it isn't a road within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act.

Pedantic
Of course they would

[Dave Finney]

It says: "It’s illegal to hold and use a phone ... while driving ..."
except when "you’re making a contactless payment ..."

No mention of only when on a "road",
and a "card controlled barrier" is not "a contactless payment".

The government page with "the law" in the title suggests that it is illegal for you to exit your car park!
As for "No officer in the world ...", does anyone believe "in the public interest" still applies?
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...

[monthou]

Dave Finney said:

It says: "It’s illegal to hold and use a phone ... while driving ..."
except when "you’re making a contactless payment ..."

No mention of only when on a "road",

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...

Perhaps it would be better to look at the actual legislation rather than the dummies' guide?
What do you think?

[Dave Finney]

monthou said:

Perhaps it would be better to look at the actual legislation rather than the dummies' guide?
What do you think?

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

[monthou]

Dave Finney said:

monthou said:

Perhaps it would be better to look at the actual legislation rather than the dummies' guide?
What do you think?

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

From your link:

thelaw said:

Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(2) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—
“Mobile telephones

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
...

Here's the latest update (AFAIK, IANAL etc)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made

And discussion of it:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/changes-in-th...

AIUI the road part hasn't changed - the key change is holding the phone is now enough to make the offence. But, again, IANAL.

I agree btw, a link to legislation in the Dummies' guide would be a good thing.

[MustangGT]

monthou said:

AIUI the road part hasn't changed - the key change is holding the phone is now enough to make the offence. But, again, IANAL.

No, holding it is not enough, it must be used (same as before). The list of what constitutes used is now defined.

[monthou]

MustangGT said:

monthou said:

AIUI the road part hasn't changed - the key change is holding the phone is now enough to make the offence. But, again, IANAL.

No, holding it is not enough, it must be used (same as before). The list of what constitutes used is now defined.

Correct.

hereyougo said:

illuminating the screen
checking the time
checking notifications
unlocking the device
making, receiving, or rejecting a telephone or internet based call
sending, receiving or uploading oral or written content
sending, receiving or uploading a photo or video
utilising camera, video, or sound recording
drafting any text
accessing any stored data such as documents, books, audio files, photos, videos, films, playlists, notes or messages
accessing an app
accessing the internet

Fortunately IANAL.

[agtlaw]

Dave Finney said:

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

Gov web pages are not written by lawyers. This is what the relevant law says:

"No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using— (a) a hand-held mobile telephone ..."

Contrast that with the no insurance offence:

"a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drink driving:

"drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drunk in charge:

"is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Etc, etc.

The no insurance offence above previously was only committed "on a road" but the law was changed to include "or other public place."

[QuickQuack]

agtlaw said:

Dave Finney said:

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

Gov web pages are not written by lawyers. This is what the relevant law says:

"No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using— (a) a hand-held mobile telephone ..."

Contrast that with the no insurance offence:

"a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drink driving:

"drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drunk in charge:

"is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Etc, etc.

The no insurance offence above previously was only committed "on a road" but the law was changed to include "or other public place."

As always with AGT's clarifications

[Dave Finney]

MustangGT said:

No, holding it is not enough, it must be used (same as before). The list of what constitutes used is now defined.

Yes, but for it not to be "used", it looks like the screen must be off.
So it appears that to be driving on a road with the phone in your hand with the screen off, is NOT illegal.

eg you start driving with the phone in your pocket.
you then move the phone (in your hand and with the screen off) to a holder.
Once in the holder, you then touch the phone to switch it on and access apps, eg sat-nav.

All of that appears NOT to be illegal (provided you do it all safely).

[MustangGT]

Dave Finney said:

MustangGT said:

No, holding it is not enough, it must be used (same as before). The list of what constitutes used is now defined.

Yes, but for it not to be "used", it looks like the screen must be off.
So it appears that to be driving on a road with the phone in your hand with the screen off, is NOT illegal.

eg you start driving with the phone in your pocket.
you then move the phone (in your hand and with the screen off) to a holder.
Once in the holder, you then touch the phone to switch it on and access apps, eg sat-nav.

All of that appears NOT to be illegal (provided you do it all safely).

Correct, with the caveat that the lock screen may be on if the phone reacts to movement.

[NFT]

agtlaw said:

Dave Finney said:

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

Gov web pages are not written by lawyers. This is what the relevant law says:

"No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using— (a) a hand-held mobile telephone ..."

Contrast that with the no insurance offence:

"a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drink driving:

"drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drunk in charge:

"is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Etc, etc.

The no insurance offence above previously was only committed "on a road" but the law was changed to include "or other public place."

Would this "Road" include a layby or grass verge maintained at the public expense?

Curious if one could fall foul by holding to head to make/answer a call whilst in layby etc..?

[martinbiz]

NFT said:

agtlaw said:

Dave Finney said:

Can you find it?
I have this:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/made

But it looks like it might be the old law.
Why can't "the dummies' guide" have a link to the actual legislation?
Or be accurate?

Gov web pages are not written by lawyers. This is what the relevant law says:

"No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using— (a) a hand-held mobile telephone ..."

Contrast that with the no insurance offence:

"a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drink driving:

"drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Drunk in charge:

"is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place"

Etc, etc.

The no insurance offence above previously was only committed "on a road" but the law was changed to include "or other public place."

Would this "Road" include a layby or grass verge maintained at the public expense?

Curious if one could fall foul by holding to head to make/answer a call whilst in layby etc..?

Yes, a layby would be included as part of a road, but if you are in a layby parked, handbrake on and with the engine off, you are not committing the specific offence

[Foss62]

martinbiz said:

Yes, a layby would be included as part of a road, but if you are in a layby parked, handbrake on and with the engine off, you are not committing the specific offence

Just being deliberately difficult - but most cars these days stop the engine when stationary anyway, and electric vehicles aren’t even ‘ticking over’ in any form when stopped. Is there are potential complication here as to whether ‘ignition’ is on or off (whatever that might mean)?

[martinbiz]

Foss62 said:

martinbiz said:

Yes, a layby would be included as part of a road, but if you are in a layby parked, handbrake on and with the engine off, you are not committing the specific offence

Just being deliberately difficult - but most cars these days stop the engine when stationary anyway, and electric vehicles aren’t even ‘ticking over’ in any form when stopped. Is there are potential complication here as to whether ‘ignition’ is on or off (whatever that might mean)?

When the engine is in start stop, it's still in driving mode and the ignition is not off, trying to convince anyone otherwise would be a stretch