Neighbour is Gross and Criminal on CCTV - Advice?
Discussion
Hello,
Our business is end of terrace, connected to a row of other '60s square concrete bunkers, designed for businesses such as ours. It works nicely for the business and is big enough for our needs (3 floors, each being 300 sq/foot).
Our neighbour has an identical 'commercial' property, with the difference being that it's been converted into 6 (!!) flats. The local ward councillor objected at the planning meeting, but was over-ruled by the council members... Considering a stairwell runs through the floors, I'd estimate each flat to be no more than 150 sq/feet, if that (have seen plans - comprising bathroom, bedroom and kitchenette - you'd be preparing food a few feet from the toilet).
Last Friday night, one of the staff decided to do a late night catch up. He was only person in. I decided to pop in Saturday, morning...to find that someone had plastered excrement behind the front door handle (lots of, but hidden, as handle is large). Luckily I saw it before reaching the handle.
A perusal of the CCTV showed the culprit. A tenant from next door rocked up holding a tissue, plastered the crap onto the back of the handle, then throwing tissue behind our bin. The guy is older (I'd say 60+). We've caught him fly-tipping us before, but instead of showing footage to council (they have a YT channel for fly-tipper shaming -), we just put the junk back on his forecourt, as it wasn't worth a feud with a neighbour over.
I have never seen the guy in person before (apart from tipping incident) and have NO idea what might have triggered him to do this. I'm somewhat bemused that he didn't spot the CCTV, as it has luminous signs to show its presence. You can see him go back into his flat in the footage, as he rustled in pocket for keys, with same hand he used for the crap.
It was felt that we had to inform the Police, as the guy seems to have a vendetta, and we need documented evidence of this, in case of future incidents. The Police have said we can press charges, and that the ball is in our court regarding this...
Options:
1) Press charges, as a way of making him aware that his card is marked
2) He is likely a psychopath and no one was hurt, so don't press charges, but make sure Police have a record in case he does something else.
3) Speak to him. This will alert him to the CCTV, thus making him cautious in further accounts, as well as stirring things up. I guess we could say that we're debating whether to press charges...
In daylight, you can find dog crap easily. But this was 11pm at night, making me worry that he made the crap to order, i.e. it wasn't dog. He then put his hands in his pockets, after throwing the tissue away!!! He has a limp and would not trouble me in a fight, although if he's a career criminal, could well have tricks up his sleeve. The place next door is the sort of establishment where one might end up after doing jail-time, and tenants are moved in / out daily (people need homes, but whole families in 150 sq/ft flats ought to be illegal IMO. Council agreed planning, despite agency applying having horrific reviews in Google).
This place is perfect for our needs. The law now means that your local MOT centre is fair game for conversion into flats. Post-Covid, commercial premises are hard to find in the city.
What would you do? Pressing charges could open up a can of worms, but so could not pressing them. If the guy lives on his own in a rabbit hutch and is over 60, maybe he doesn't have much to lose? Do I want to pick a fight when no one was hurt?
I have been racking my brains to figure out why we might have annoyed a neighbour... We don't park in their space (a courier did for 5 minutes last week... reason to do the dog crap thing?). We don't play music. The whole thing is a mystery... If you knew you'd annoyed someone, you could understand the crap thing and be philosophical. The coppers are calling me tonight to get the video footage. They are going to ask again if I want to press charges...
What to do?
Our business is end of terrace, connected to a row of other '60s square concrete bunkers, designed for businesses such as ours. It works nicely for the business and is big enough for our needs (3 floors, each being 300 sq/foot).
Our neighbour has an identical 'commercial' property, with the difference being that it's been converted into 6 (!!) flats. The local ward councillor objected at the planning meeting, but was over-ruled by the council members... Considering a stairwell runs through the floors, I'd estimate each flat to be no more than 150 sq/feet, if that (have seen plans - comprising bathroom, bedroom and kitchenette - you'd be preparing food a few feet from the toilet).
Last Friday night, one of the staff decided to do a late night catch up. He was only person in. I decided to pop in Saturday, morning...to find that someone had plastered excrement behind the front door handle (lots of, but hidden, as handle is large). Luckily I saw it before reaching the handle.
A perusal of the CCTV showed the culprit. A tenant from next door rocked up holding a tissue, plastered the crap onto the back of the handle, then throwing tissue behind our bin. The guy is older (I'd say 60+). We've caught him fly-tipping us before, but instead of showing footage to council (they have a YT channel for fly-tipper shaming -), we just put the junk back on his forecourt, as it wasn't worth a feud with a neighbour over.
I have never seen the guy in person before (apart from tipping incident) and have NO idea what might have triggered him to do this. I'm somewhat bemused that he didn't spot the CCTV, as it has luminous signs to show its presence. You can see him go back into his flat in the footage, as he rustled in pocket for keys, with same hand he used for the crap.
It was felt that we had to inform the Police, as the guy seems to have a vendetta, and we need documented evidence of this, in case of future incidents. The Police have said we can press charges, and that the ball is in our court regarding this...
Options:
1) Press charges, as a way of making him aware that his card is marked
2) He is likely a psychopath and no one was hurt, so don't press charges, but make sure Police have a record in case he does something else.
3) Speak to him. This will alert him to the CCTV, thus making him cautious in further accounts, as well as stirring things up. I guess we could say that we're debating whether to press charges...
In daylight, you can find dog crap easily. But this was 11pm at night, making me worry that he made the crap to order, i.e. it wasn't dog. He then put his hands in his pockets, after throwing the tissue away!!! He has a limp and would not trouble me in a fight, although if he's a career criminal, could well have tricks up his sleeve. The place next door is the sort of establishment where one might end up after doing jail-time, and tenants are moved in / out daily (people need homes, but whole families in 150 sq/ft flats ought to be illegal IMO. Council agreed planning, despite agency applying having horrific reviews in Google).
This place is perfect for our needs. The law now means that your local MOT centre is fair game for conversion into flats. Post-Covid, commercial premises are hard to find in the city.
What would you do? Pressing charges could open up a can of worms, but so could not pressing them. If the guy lives on his own in a rabbit hutch and is over 60, maybe he doesn't have much to lose? Do I want to pick a fight when no one was hurt?
I have been racking my brains to figure out why we might have annoyed a neighbour... We don't park in their space (a courier did for 5 minutes last week... reason to do the dog crap thing?). We don't play music. The whole thing is a mystery... If you knew you'd annoyed someone, you could understand the crap thing and be philosophical. The coppers are calling me tonight to get the video footage. They are going to ask again if I want to press charges...
What to do?
Edited by flat16 on Monday 11th March 15:58
flat16 said:
Hello,
Our business is end of terrace, connected to a row of other '60s square concrete bunkers, designed for businesses such as ours. It works nicely for the business and is big enough for our needs (3 floors, each being 300 sq/foot).
Our neighbour has an identical 'commercial' property, with the difference being that it's been converted into 6 (!!) flats. The local ward councillor objected at the planning meeting, but was over-ruled by the council members... Considering a stairwell runs through the floors, I'd estimate each flat to be no more than 150 sq/feet, if that (have seen plans - comprising bathroom, bedroom and kitchenette - you'd be preparing food a few feet from the toilet).
Last Friday night, one of the staff decided to do a late night catch up. He was only person in. I decided to pop in Saturday, morning...to find that someone had plastered excrement behind the front door handle (lots of, but hidden, as handle is large). Luckily I saw it before reaching the handle.
A perusal of the CCTV showed the culprit. A tenant from next door rocked up holding a tissue, plastered the crap onto the back of the handle, then throwing tissue behind our bin. The guy is older (I'd say 60+). We've caught him fly-tipping us before, but instead of showing footage to council (they have a YT channel for fly-tipper shaming -), we just put the junk back on his forecourt, as it wasn't worth a feud with a neighbour over.
I have never seen the guy in person before (apart from tipping incident) and have NO idea what might have triggered him to do this. I'm somewhat bemused that he didn't spot the CCTV, as it has luminous signs to show its presence. You can see him go back into his flat in the footage, as he rustled in pocket for keys, with same hand he used for the crap.
It was felt that we had to inform the Police, as the guy seems to have a vendetta, and we need documented evidence of this, in case of future incidents. The Police have said we can press charges, and that the ball is in our court regarding this...
Options:
1) Press charges, as a way of making him aware that his card is marked
2) He is likely a psychopath and no one was hurt, so don't press charges, but make sure Police have a record in case he does something else.
3) Speak to him. This will alert him to the CCTV, thus making him cautious in further accounts, as well as stirring things up. I guess we could say that we're debating whether to press charges...
In daylight, you can find dog crap easily. But this was 11pm at night, making me worry that he made the crap to order, i.e. it wasn't dog. He then put his hands in his pockets, after throwing the tissue away!!! He has a limp and would not trouble me in a fight, although if he's a career criminal, could well have tricks up his sleeve. The place next door is the sort of establishment where one might end up after doing jail-time, and tenants are moved in / out daily (people need homes, but whole families in 150 sq/ft flats ought to be illegal IMO. Council agreed planning, despite agency applying having horrific reviews in Google).
This place is perfect for our needs. The law now means that your local MOT centre is fair game for conversion into flats. Post-Covid, commercial premises are hard to find in the city.
What would you do? Pressing charges could open up a can of worms, but so could not pressing them. If the guy lives on his own in a rabbit hutch and is over 60, maybe he doesn't have much to lose? Do I want to pick a fight when no one was hurt?
I have been racking my brains to figure out why we might have annoyed a neighbour... We don't park in their space (a courier did for 5 minutes last week... reason to do the dog crap thing?). We don't play music. The whole thing is a mystery... If you knew you'd annoyed someone, you could understand the crap thing and be philosophical. The coppers are calling me tonight to get the video footage. They are going to ask again if I want to press charges...
What to do?
Could it have been that the guy doing the late night catch up you mention made enough noise to upset crap handle man - and he handle crapped in retribution?Our business is end of terrace, connected to a row of other '60s square concrete bunkers, designed for businesses such as ours. It works nicely for the business and is big enough for our needs (3 floors, each being 300 sq/foot).
Our neighbour has an identical 'commercial' property, with the difference being that it's been converted into 6 (!!) flats. The local ward councillor objected at the planning meeting, but was over-ruled by the council members... Considering a stairwell runs through the floors, I'd estimate each flat to be no more than 150 sq/feet, if that (have seen plans - comprising bathroom, bedroom and kitchenette - you'd be preparing food a few feet from the toilet).
Last Friday night, one of the staff decided to do a late night catch up. He was only person in. I decided to pop in Saturday, morning...to find that someone had plastered excrement behind the front door handle (lots of, but hidden, as handle is large). Luckily I saw it before reaching the handle.
A perusal of the CCTV showed the culprit. A tenant from next door rocked up holding a tissue, plastered the crap onto the back of the handle, then throwing tissue behind our bin. The guy is older (I'd say 60+). We've caught him fly-tipping us before, but instead of showing footage to council (they have a YT channel for fly-tipper shaming -), we just put the junk back on his forecourt, as it wasn't worth a feud with a neighbour over.
I have never seen the guy in person before (apart from tipping incident) and have NO idea what might have triggered him to do this. I'm somewhat bemused that he didn't spot the CCTV, as it has luminous signs to show its presence. You can see him go back into his flat in the footage, as he rustled in pocket for keys, with same hand he used for the crap.
It was felt that we had to inform the Police, as the guy seems to have a vendetta, and we need documented evidence of this, in case of future incidents. The Police have said we can press charges, and that the ball is in our court regarding this...
Options:
1) Press charges, as a way of making him aware that his card is marked
2) He is likely a psychopath and no one was hurt, so don't press charges, but make sure Police have a record in case he does something else.
3) Speak to him. This will alert him to the CCTV, thus making him cautious in further accounts, as well as stirring things up. I guess we could say that we're debating whether to press charges...
In daylight, you can find dog crap easily. But this was 11pm at night, making me worry that he made the crap to order, i.e. it wasn't dog. He then put his hands in his pockets, after throwing the tissue away!!! He has a limp and would not trouble me in a fight, although if he's a career criminal, could well have tricks up his sleeve. The place next door is the sort of establishment where one might end up after doing jail-time, and tenants are moved in / out daily (people need homes, but whole families in 150 sq/ft flats ought to be illegal IMO. Council agreed planning, despite agency applying having horrific reviews in Google).
This place is perfect for our needs. The law now means that your local MOT centre is fair game for conversion into flats. Post-Covid, commercial premises are hard to find in the city.
What would you do? Pressing charges could open up a can of worms, but so could not pressing them. If the guy lives on his own in a rabbit hutch and is over 60, maybe he doesn't have much to lose? Do I want to pick a fight when no one was hurt?
I have been racking my brains to figure out why we might have annoyed a neighbour... We don't park in their space (a courier did for 5 minutes last week... reason to do the dog crap thing?). We don't play music. The whole thing is a mystery... If you knew you'd annoyed someone, you could understand the crap thing and be philosophical. The coppers are calling me tonight to get the video footage. They are going to ask again if I want to press charges...
What to do?
Edited by flat16 on Monday 11th March 15:58
I would go with your third option; tell him that you have him on CCTV and the Police are asking you to press charges. See what he does and if he kicks off then definitely press charges.
Bill said:
I don't see why you wouldn't just let the police do their job.
Yep, this sounds like one of those rare instances where you have him bang to rights with good evidence.TBH I think you're being exceptionally reasonable in the circumstances. As this is a commercial property I'd take a really firm stance in dealing with his disgusting behaviour and would also be on to his landlord pushing for them to get him out at the end of his lease.
There are YT channels that are into posting video footage of this kind (it's good quality BTW). I think we could turn 'Crap Handle Man' into a star. He could make a record and become a pop sensation!
There is no chance that the guy working here could've been making a racket, as we moved here last year and haven't got a stereo rigged up on his floor yet! It's something we've been discussing, as creature comforts make for a better workforce. He listens to Radio 4 on his phone, which isn't going to penetrate a wall. He happens to be of Asian descent, and I did worry if this could be an issue, but I haven't mentioned this to him, as it's unlikely to be a factor and there's no point making him nervous. I told the Police that we have people working here from different ethnic backgrounds and they immediately took a stern tone, saying that I had to be really sure it were racially motivated, which is fair enough. I have nothing to go on, hence clutching at straws.
There is no chance that the guy working here could've been making a racket, as we moved here last year and haven't got a stereo rigged up on his floor yet! It's something we've been discussing, as creature comforts make for a better workforce. He listens to Radio 4 on his phone, which isn't going to penetrate a wall. He happens to be of Asian descent, and I did worry if this could be an issue, but I haven't mentioned this to him, as it's unlikely to be a factor and there's no point making him nervous. I told the Police that we have people working here from different ethnic backgrounds and they immediately took a stern tone, saying that I had to be really sure it were racially motivated, which is fair enough. I have nothing to go on, hence clutching at straws.
N - WRT letting the Police do their job: they have said that it's down to me to press charges. They ruled asked me to put a value down for cleaning the door, which I put down @ £100 (it took minutes to clean up, but the resulting paranoia has meant that we've had to stop work and discuss ways to upgrade security instead of working). I could've called a specialist firm over in bunny suits and gask masks, which would cost way more, but I'd have to foot the bill - and then claim it back from him, likely at a rate determined by court of £0.50 p/ month.
Police say charge will be 'causing criminal damage' - with me claiming £100 comp. I could likely be called to court over it. It could be better to let him think he's got away with it, as we have CCTV to record any future antics.
Police say charge will be 'causing criminal damage' - with me claiming £100 comp. I could likely be called to court over it. It could be better to let him think he's got away with it, as we have CCTV to record any future antics.
flat16 said:
There are YT channels that are into posting video footage of this kind (it's good quality BTW). I think we could turn 'Crap Handle Man' into a star. He could make a record and become a pop sensation!
I can already see Simon Cowell et al watching him sing 's
tting on the Dock of the Bay' live on national TV...
smn159 said:
Police definitely. There's no reasoning with anyone who thinks that it's OK to smear crap on your door handle and doesn't have the brains to realise that there's probably going to be CCTV.
Get them to log it before he does something even more stupid
We have a crime reference number, and one of the coppers says they are calling tonight, for the purpose of instructing us how to submit the CCTV and photo evidence (one of the people here worked at a shop that had to send CCTV evidence all the time, and said that the Police ask for the app that plays the video in case they can't watch it!). Get them to log it before he does something even more stupid
My principle concern is whether it'll cause more damage long term if we press charges on our nearest neighbour (especially if he is a nutter - the court case likely won't come up for many months). Police already have evidence. Do we simply log with them and press charges if he ups the ante, or do we go for the jugular now? If he's living in a flat on his own at that age (he has a limp and could do with joining weightwatchers), it's not like he's going to be Don Corleone. But he could still do something nasty.
lord trumpton said:
Press charges. The needs stopping asap
What's next? Keyed car?
fk that.
Key-ed car would potentially cost thousands, and on CCTV he'd be doomed. Could get a custodial for that in theory, if he couldn't pay? Dog crap on door handle has a £100 value, as reported to Police. Not exactly Al Capone territory for the cops. needs stopping asapWhat's next? Keyed car?
f
k that.BTW - Coppers actually said that if damage had a value above £500 they'd automatically apply to enter his property, but can't because of low value. I had no idea coppers put a figure on actions to take. No wonder they take it seriously when a Ferrari gets nicked. Problem is, person with Ferrari can live without it, unlike old dear who gets her pension stolen.
Edited by flat16 on Monday 11th March 18:17
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