Need to talk to a solicitor
Discussion
Chaps,
Some long while ago, I had two cars stolen. There was a thread on here about it - October last year ...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=&t=129798&h=0
The character in question has now appeared in court, and pleaded quilty to stealing 39 cars, and selling them all for scrap metal. His sentence? Wait for it ... 180 hours community service. Yes, that's it. Don't get me started on justice and the role of the courts, that in itself would fill many pages on here.
However, this leaves me considerably out of pocket - the Mk1 GTi was worth a fair sum, the other Mk1 considerably less (£2k and about £300 respectively.) I would quite like to get a fair chunk (preferably all) of this back from the thief. The police are being co-operative and helpful, and are willing to give me his details (name and address) if I formally ask for them (I already know his name and the road he lives in as they were published in the local newspaper.)
I am told that he is working as a plasterers assistant (i.e. manual labourer) for 4 hours every night, in legitimate employment. He doesn't own a house, but lives with his girlfriend in what is thought to be council-provided accomodation. Income is thought to be around £10/hr, approx £200/wk, around £1k/month before tax. He will get other allowances as he has recently become a father.
What is my best option for trying to recover some of my loss? I understand that several solicitors offer a free initial consultation, but don't know how to go about finding one. I don't have a huge amount of spare cash at the moment, and wouldn't want to be throwing good money after bad in chasing this. However, I am willing to invest a little bit if there is a fair chance of getting my losses back.
So,
1. What are my options? (If anyone here can give me a quick run-down, that would be helpful.)
Or, 2. How do I set about finding a solicitor who would be able to help with this?
And, 3. Is it worth it?
Sensible answers please - yes, I would love to go 'round one night and splash his blood across the local scenery, but this isn't really an option!
Oli.
P.S. Mods - if you think this would live better in SP&TL then please do move it. Thanks.
Some long while ago, I had two cars stolen. There was a thread on here about it - October last year ...
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=&t=129798&h=0
The character in question has now appeared in court, and pleaded quilty to stealing 39 cars, and selling them all for scrap metal. His sentence? Wait for it ... 180 hours community service. Yes, that's it. Don't get me started on justice and the role of the courts, that in itself would fill many pages on here.
However, this leaves me considerably out of pocket - the Mk1 GTi was worth a fair sum, the other Mk1 considerably less (£2k and about £300 respectively.) I would quite like to get a fair chunk (preferably all) of this back from the thief. The police are being co-operative and helpful, and are willing to give me his details (name and address) if I formally ask for them (I already know his name and the road he lives in as they were published in the local newspaper.)
I am told that he is working as a plasterers assistant (i.e. manual labourer) for 4 hours every night, in legitimate employment. He doesn't own a house, but lives with his girlfriend in what is thought to be council-provided accomodation. Income is thought to be around £10/hr, approx £200/wk, around £1k/month before tax. He will get other allowances as he has recently become a father.
What is my best option for trying to recover some of my loss? I understand that several solicitors offer a free initial consultation, but don't know how to go about finding one. I don't have a huge amount of spare cash at the moment, and wouldn't want to be throwing good money after bad in chasing this. However, I am willing to invest a little bit if there is a fair chance of getting my losses back.
So,
1. What are my options? (If anyone here can give me a quick run-down, that would be helpful.)
Or, 2. How do I set about finding a solicitor who would be able to help with this?
And, 3. Is it worth it?
Sensible answers please - yes, I would love to go 'round one night and splash his blood across the local scenery, but this isn't really an option!
Oli.
P.S. Mods - if you think this would live better in SP&TL then please do move it. Thanks.
The amounts make it a matter for the Small Claims Court. There you run no risk of having to pay his costs in the unlikely event that you lose, but you will have to pay your own costs, so I would proceed without a solicitor. It is a relatively straightforward procedure and, with a criminal conviction, you have a pretty good case, although the ideal would be an admission that he stole your cars.
Speak to your local Citizens' Advice Bureau.
Speak to your local Citizens' Advice Bureau.
Zod said:Zod,
The amounts make it a matter for the Small Claims Court. There you run no risk of having to pay his costs in the unlikely event that you lose, but you will have to pay your own costs, so I would proceed without a solicitor. It is a relatively straightforward procedure and, with a criminal conviction, you have a pretty good case, although the ideal would be an admission that he stole your cars.
Speak to your local Citizens' Advice Bureau.
Thanks. He pleaded guilty to all charges, so does this count as an admission that he stole the cars?
I guess I am not worried about him being found liable for the damages, it is more of a concern that he will wriggle out of paying in some way. Either disappear, or end up paying at £1/week for the next millenium. (Although I will hold him to that, if necessary.)
How do I contact the Citizens Advice Bureau? And can I make a small claims court claim without a solicitor? And how do I contact the Small Claims Court?
Thanks for your help.
Oli.
Look up the CAB here: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/winnn6/ .
They will tell you what you need to do for the Small Claims Court. It's just a matter of filing a form. You do not need a solicitor.
This bbc page explains the procedure:
www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/smallclaimscourt.shtml
They will tell you what you need to do for the Small Claims Court. It's just a matter of filing a form. You do not need a solicitor.
This bbc page explains the procedure:
www.bbc.co.uk/crime/law/smallclaimscourt.shtml
Judging by his circumstances I would say that it is almost certain that he will have to pay £1 per week for many years thus if it is a money recovery exercise it is fairly pointless.
However this will remain with him so if nothing else it will be a major inconvenience and your only legal recourse so id go for it anyway!
However this will remain with him so if nothing else it will be a major inconvenience and your only legal recourse so id go for it anyway!
Assuming that the Small Claims Court is able to hear cases such as this (and I don't see why not) then you can even do it all online at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp
It's very simple, no need for Solicitors and with a conviction, he'll find it hard to wriggle out of. Only thing is if there's already been some form of compensation order put on him from the criminal trial then you may not be allowed 'two bites at the cherry'.
Almost certainly he'll take forever to pay but if more people took civil action against lowlife then it might just help. At worst, he'll end up with a CCJ which'll knacker up his credit rating for a while
It's very simple, no need for Solicitors and with a conviction, he'll find it hard to wriggle out of. Only thing is if there's already been some form of compensation order put on him from the criminal trial then you may not be allowed 'two bites at the cherry'.
Almost certainly he'll take forever to pay but if more people took civil action against lowlife then it might just help. At worst, he'll end up with a CCJ which'll knacker up his credit rating for a while
Chaps,
Thanks again for your responses. Mr Pot Bellied Fool - thanks particularly for the link to the Small Claims Court website. Very, very helpful.
It looks like it'll cost £120 to take the scumbag to court for the amount owed. Is he going to pay this £120, is he going to pay more than £120? Am I throwing good money after bad? If he pays £1 a week, this is 2 years for the cost of the court charges to be covered, and (quick calculation) about 48 years for the whole debt to be cleared
.
I guess the only one to make that judgement is me - and I need to decide what to do. I am very, very tempted to go for it ...
Thanks again for your help.
Oli.
Thanks again for your responses. Mr Pot Bellied Fool - thanks particularly for the link to the Small Claims Court website. Very, very helpful.
It looks like it'll cost £120 to take the scumbag to court for the amount owed. Is he going to pay this £120, is he going to pay more than £120? Am I throwing good money after bad? If he pays £1 a week, this is 2 years for the cost of the court charges to be covered, and (quick calculation) about 48 years for the whole debt to be cleared
. I guess the only one to make that judgement is me - and I need to decide what to do. I am very, very tempted to go for it ...
Thanks again for your help.
Oli.
I agree with the others that you are unlikely to get the whole amount back for a time, if ever. It might be throwing good money after bad but it WILL make him think about what he did for just a bit longer, and that might.
Up until now he might have just faced the police and their questioning and thought that he was just nicking crappy old cars for a few quid. If you take him to court it might be the first time he will have actually thought about his victims.
Then possibly if he does get ordered to pay a small amount then the court might ask you to write it off after a while, or he might disappear and stop paying, then it would probably be up to the court to find him (ie. you have no chance)
Gareth
Up until now he might have just faced the police and their questioning and thought that he was just nicking crappy old cars for a few quid. If you take him to court it might be the first time he will have actually thought about his victims.
Then possibly if he does get ordered to pay a small amount then the court might ask you to write it off after a while, or he might disappear and stop paying, then it would probably be up to the court to find him (ie. you have no chance)
Gareth
RacyLady - yes, my question was more whether I should pursue this guy at all. I currently stand at around £2500 down, but I run a risk of being £2620 down, and still not see a penny of it back if he refuses to pay at all.
Oli.
Harry Flashman said:My sentiments exactly ... the fact that the car is not far off being irreplacable seems to matter not one jot - all I can do is try and put a value on it and claim that. (How much is a Lhasa Green Mk1 GTi in excellent condition worth?)
This guy scrapped a Mk1 GTi? Forget community service - this chap wants flogging!
Oli.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Tonker, No, he scrapped them.
There are logs at the scrap metal merchants detailing what he bought in and when.
And Mk1 GTi spares are getting very rare, and I can assure you that none appeared in the usual channels for the 4 months after the car went missing.
Oli.
I have two views on the subject.
Firstly, the professional approach would have to be that althought it sounds like you have a very good chance of getting judgment against him, you're likely to end up recovering £2.80 per week (assuming he's not already paying other fines/arrears etc.). You'll have the stress of the court proceedings (although if you do money on line and he doesn't respond then you'll be home and dry very quickly with a default judgment. My other initial concern would be are you putting yourself and your family at risk of intimidation/violence as well.
My personal thought is that for the sake of the court fee and a bit of hassle it would be nice to get a judgment debt against the lowlife and to show him that crime REALLY doesn't pay.
Good luck, whatever you chose to do.
Firstly, the professional approach would have to be that althought it sounds like you have a very good chance of getting judgment against him, you're likely to end up recovering £2.80 per week (assuming he's not already paying other fines/arrears etc.). You'll have the stress of the court proceedings (although if you do money on line and he doesn't respond then you'll be home and dry very quickly with a default judgment. My other initial concern would be are you putting yourself and your family at risk of intimidation/violence as well.
My personal thought is that for the sake of the court fee and a bit of hassle it would be nice to get a judgment debt against the lowlife and to show him that crime REALLY doesn't pay.
Good luck, whatever you chose to do.
zcacogp said:
Tonker,
No, he scrapped them.
There are logs at the scrap metal merchants detailing what he bought in and when.
And Mk1 GTi spares are getting very rare, and I can assure you that none appeared in the usual channels for the 4 months after the car went missing.
Oli.
Can you take any action against the scrappy?
Surely he should have checked docs etc, and the DVLA would have seen a large number of stolen cars being taken there too?
Being a Yank and not a Solicitor of any sort, my advice may well be worth nothing - but I like the idea of going after the scrappy, he's got deep enough pockets to make it worthwhile.
It seems to me reasonable that when some guy drives an old car in good condition to a scrapyard, when the car would obviously sell for more than scrap value on the open market, that a reasonable person would ask some questions.
The scrappy did purchase stolen goods. I do know that in the States a pawn shop that receives stolen goods more than just very occasionally is likely to have their license revoked.
I would encourage you to sue the b'stard.(both of them!) ..nothing like a little revenge to sweeten your day..
It seems to me reasonable that when some guy drives an old car in good condition to a scrapyard, when the car would obviously sell for more than scrap value on the open market, that a reasonable person would ask some questions.
The scrappy did purchase stolen goods. I do know that in the States a pawn shop that receives stolen goods more than just very occasionally is likely to have their license revoked.
I would encourage you to sue the b'stard.(both of them!) ..nothing like a little revenge to sweeten your day..
Chaps,
He picked them up with a tow-truck (and a knackered one at that - I saw it), and dragged them up the road the nearest scrap metal dealer. I'm not sure whether he would have known that Mk1 GTi's are worth anything - I don't think he has any more IQ points than fingers, TBH - and he pinched a good number of cars from the locality, including an immaculate XJS, apparently.
Going after the scrappie? Good idea. Not sure how they stand legally on that. However, they obviously cannot shoulder 100% of the blame, and I don't have a criminal court judgement against them. (I understand that they weren't keeping as close a track of the stuff they were scrapping as they should, and the copper investigating used this as a hefty lever against them, and they were consequently "Very Co-Operative."
I will however make some enquiries in this direction. Thanks.
I think it's worth a try, and I am pretty much decided that I'll have a go.
Interesting ... this concern had crossed my mind, but I dismissed it as me being slightly too edgy. In practice, do I need to declare my home address? I have moved house since the cars were pinched, and I would give my employers' address as the contact address. Would this be OK with the courts, or would I need to declare my full name and address in such a way as he can find it out?
The trouble is, it is my considered opinion that crime DOES pay in the current age. And if I didn't have other reasons not to commit crime, I would be seriously considering 'cutting a few corners' in my day-to-day life.
Thank you.
I'll keep you posted.
Oli.
>> Edited by zcacogp on Tuesday 13th September 09:35
He picked them up with a tow-truck (and a knackered one at that - I saw it), and dragged them up the road the nearest scrap metal dealer. I'm not sure whether he would have known that Mk1 GTi's are worth anything - I don't think he has any more IQ points than fingers, TBH - and he pinched a good number of cars from the locality, including an immaculate XJS, apparently.
Going after the scrappie? Good idea. Not sure how they stand legally on that. However, they obviously cannot shoulder 100% of the blame, and I don't have a criminal court judgement against them. (I understand that they weren't keeping as close a track of the stuff they were scrapping as they should, and the copper investigating used this as a hefty lever against them, and they were consequently "Very Co-Operative."
I will however make some enquiries in this direction. Thanks. piglet said:
Firstly, the professional approach would have to be that althought it sounds like you have a very good chance of getting judgment against him, you're likely to end up recovering £2.80 per week (assuming he's not already paying other fines/arrears etc.). You'll have the stress of the court proceedings (although if you do money on line and he doesn't respond then you'll be home and dry very quickly with a default judgment.
I think it's worth a try, and I am pretty much decided that I'll have a go.
piglet said:
My other initial concern would be are you putting yourself and your family at risk of intimidation/violence as well.
Interesting ... this concern had crossed my mind, but I dismissed it as me being slightly too edgy. In practice, do I need to declare my home address? I have moved house since the cars were pinched, and I would give my employers' address as the contact address. Would this be OK with the courts, or would I need to declare my full name and address in such a way as he can find it out?
piglet said:
My personal thought is that for the sake of the court fee and a bit of hassle it would be nice to get a judgment debt against the lowlife and to show him that crime REALLY doesn't pay.
The trouble is, it is my considered opinion that crime DOES pay in the current age. And if I didn't have other reasons not to commit crime, I would be seriously considering 'cutting a few corners' in my day-to-day life.
piglet said:
Good luck, whatever you chose to do.
Thank you.
I'll keep you posted.
Oli.
>> Edited by zcacogp on Tuesday 13th September 09:35
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff