The Future of the Greens
Discussion
Is anyone here voting for or worried about the Greens? Probably neither, but anyway:
No doubt we'll hear a lot from them over the next six weeks as they have a few target seats and they have attracted a group of people who are a mixture of Momentum members and typical Galloway supporters - one councillor calling his election to Leeds City Council "a victory for the people of Palestine". Peter Mandelson recently called them the "dustbin of the hard left and unpleasant free Palestine activists," and that they will rue the day they let these people in.
I see three broad options for them long term.
1) Become the hard left dustbin
2) Go back to being a slightly left wing but inoffensive protest party for people who care about the environment
3) Become a single issue party in the style of UKIP, be extremely pragmatic about how to get green energy - back nuclear, don't care about the funding approach for public transport and renewables (privatisation/nationalisation/grants/tax breaks etc) as long as it moves in a more green direction
The first option seems like a very short term gain to me. Those people will get bored, eventually re-invade Labour or find another party to infiltrate and eventually leave their latest host with no reputation and no money.
The third is a bold move that may upset a lot of their members who like being a bit left wing and a bit green, but a risk that I think will pay dividends as they can attract people from across the political spectrum and apply pressure to both main parties.
More short term, will they have enough in them to mount a challenge on Labour's left flank and take Bristol Central and otherwise cause problems? My guess is that they won't and will end up helping Labour by giving evidence that Labour has been cleaned up at the expense of other parties.
No doubt we'll hear a lot from them over the next six weeks as they have a few target seats and they have attracted a group of people who are a mixture of Momentum members and typical Galloway supporters - one councillor calling his election to Leeds City Council "a victory for the people of Palestine". Peter Mandelson recently called them the "dustbin of the hard left and unpleasant free Palestine activists," and that they will rue the day they let these people in.
I see three broad options for them long term.
1) Become the hard left dustbin
2) Go back to being a slightly left wing but inoffensive protest party for people who care about the environment
3) Become a single issue party in the style of UKIP, be extremely pragmatic about how to get green energy - back nuclear, don't care about the funding approach for public transport and renewables (privatisation/nationalisation/grants/tax breaks etc) as long as it moves in a more green direction
The first option seems like a very short term gain to me. Those people will get bored, eventually re-invade Labour or find another party to infiltrate and eventually leave their latest host with no reputation and no money.
The third is a bold move that may upset a lot of their members who like being a bit left wing and a bit green, but a risk that I think will pay dividends as they can attract people from across the political spectrum and apply pressure to both main parties.
More short term, will they have enough in them to mount a challenge on Labour's left flank and take Bristol Central and otherwise cause problems? My guess is that they won't and will end up helping Labour by giving evidence that Labour has been cleaned up at the expense of other parties.
When were the greens a slightly lefty organisation who cared about the environment? They have ALWAYS been very much a left wing organisation who never actually cared that much about the environment! It’s my - and my family’s - biggest problem with them. They are effectively a Luddite cult at heart, with zero interest in actually doing anything about the environment, or pursuing ideas which make things a bit more efficient, cleaner, etc.
They are quite frankly the most annoying political party going.
IF they ditched all their drivel, went hard and fast against the water companies, esp SW Water down here, there is a very strong chance that they could sweep the SW. we barely hear a peep from them on this though. It’s all about Brighton, their social drivel and anything/everything anti-Tory.
They are quite frankly the most annoying political party going.
IF they ditched all their drivel, went hard and fast against the water companies, esp SW Water down here, there is a very strong chance that they could sweep the SW. we barely hear a peep from them on this though. It’s all about Brighton, their social drivel and anything/everything anti-Tory.
DeejRC said:
When were the greens a slightly lefty organisation who cared about the environment? They have ALWAYS been very much a left wing organisation who never actually cared that much about the environment! It’s my - and my family’s - biggest problem with them. They are effectively a Luddite cult at heart, with zero interest in actually doing anything about the environment, or pursuing ideas which make things a bit more efficient, cleaner, etc.
They are quite frankly the most annoying political party going.
IF they ditched all their drivel, went hard and fast against the water companies, esp SW Water down here, there is a very strong chance that they could sweep the SW. we barely hear a peep from them on this though. It’s all about Brighton, their social drivel and anything/everything anti-Tory.
Well said. They could/should be a party campaigning against some of the more egregious companies that pollute at will but they don’t seem very interested in that. They need to lose the hard left culture warriors and focus on what they’re meant to stand for. Then they would’ve a useful voice in parliament, that’s needed.They are quite frankly the most annoying political party going.
IF they ditched all their drivel, went hard and fast against the water companies, esp SW Water down here, there is a very strong chance that they could sweep the SW. we barely hear a peep from them on this though. It’s all about Brighton, their social drivel and anything/everything anti-Tory.
Yahonza said:
Look at what they have done in Scotland. They don't belong anywhere near central government - a complete disaster area.
To be fair the English and Scottish Greens are now separate parties I think as the Scottish ones got too crazy. Think that is what happened at any rate.So the English Greens may be crazy but not quite yet at the same level as the Scottish ones.
DeejRC said:
When were the greens a slightly lefty organisation who cared about the environment? They have ALWAYS been very much a left wing organisation who never actually cared that much about the environment! It’s my - and my family’s - biggest problem with them. They are effectively a Luddite cult at heart, with zero interest in actually doing anything about the environment, or pursuing ideas which make things a bit more efficient, cleaner, etc.
Perhaps in the very early days when they were more a protest movement than a party. Since then they have been becoming Communism with a green veneer. All of the old favourites might actually be achievable if they tell people it is for the sake of the environment.
Out of curiosity, I had a look at their website. Blimey, talk about overkill; there were hundreds of policies! Page after page of background, objectives, values and policies. So much so that they've numbered them (for example Universal Basic Income is policy number EC730).
I soon gave up, because I was overwhelmed by the sheer scale and verbosity of their ramblings. In general, it seemed like a lefty student union wish list gone mad. There didn't seem all that much about the environment AFAICS.
I soon gave up, because I was overwhelmed by the sheer scale and verbosity of their ramblings. In general, it seemed like a lefty student union wish list gone mad. There didn't seem all that much about the environment AFAICS.
Rivenink said:
The Greens, like Reform, will continue to be to a fringe party focused on local Government until we get proprotional representation that will allow people to better express their political wishes.
Who gives a f
k about the mentalists? And let’s hope that PR never happens to allow them any more influence on power than they have already had. Same goes for the Reform nutjobs.
Edited by Diderot on Friday 24th May 21:04
Edited by Diderot on Friday 24th May 21:06
At last years local government elections our District Council went to an alliance of Lib Dem’s and Greens. It seems to be falling apart https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/news/people/second...
Yahonza said:
Look at what they have done in Scotland. They don't belong anywhere near central government - a complete disaster area.
Not the same party. The Scottish "Greens" have been disavowed by the UK and international Green movement because of their fringe ideas and stances on matters the main group believed the Scottish contingent should have stayed neutral over.The Scottish "Greens" are really now just a proto-Marxist party with an obsession on gender issues who hitched themselves to the Scottish independence bandwagon to take advantage of the Holyrood two-vote election system.
The only reason they continue to call themselves Greens is because it is a term that cannot be copyrighted or IP'd, and they know full well that their continuing use of it misleads many people about what they stand for.
Edited by Evercross on Saturday 25th May 23:19
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