How much power do governments have?

[Skeptisk]

There are a lot of complaints about governments and what they do or don’t do. But how much power do individual governments actually have? It seems to me that society, both locally and globally, is constantly changing because of factors outside the control of individual governments, or even of governments acting together.

To take just one example, technology is constantly changing, which has manifold, often unforeseen consequences on both production, consumption, behaviour, environmental impact, etc. Those changes are not generally driven by governments, who are often reactive rather than proactive.

Governments can make a big difference for certain sections of society. Some people have got very rich in the last 14 years. But can they change societies as a whole? I am less convinced.

[Kerniki]

As much as the oil companies allow them

[vikingaero]

Many Governments are like captains of ships in a storm, reacting to the waves and the wind and barely in control - and that goes for Governments of all political persuasions.

[Dingu]

Lots. They can affect society, it happened by cutting absolutely everything to the bone. It’s just expensive and we have a country of selfish assholes who aren’t willing to pay for it.

[Getragdogleg]

A lot id say, I mean they got everyone to stay at home in lockdowns and can alter the amount of money they take off you as they see fit.

They can declare war and force you to go and die so in terms of the power balance we have none, they have it all.

[StevieBee]

Governments are essentially regulators. They create a framework of regulations – determining the things we can and can’t do as well as being the collector and administrator of taxes to pay for public services (having also set the tax levels).

So, governments may not directly change society but they can influence it.

Taking the technology example; they may incentivise technological advancement by providing tax-breaks for innovation within the sector, fund academic learning for sector expertise and help to promote the sector internationally. But ultimately, it’s up to the technology sector itself to take advantage of those benefits.

Civil Society is shaped by the laws that control it. But laws are often shaped by society. Would any government have changed the laws regarding gender equality, gay rights and race where it not for society demanding such changes?

Who knows? But, the government did enable a society that promoted free-speech and it was this than emboldened society to question such laws.

I would say that governments have all the power and none of the power in the same measure. Only they can change things but it is up to society what gets changed and whether those changes are accepted.

[paulw123]

Liz Truss would say, not much.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Just enough to make fools of themselves.

[Bradgate]

We found out in the Spring of 2020 just how much power governments can still exercise in the real world. Lockdown was the biggest curtailment of people’s liberties since the war. Furlough meant that the government supported the entire economy by paying millions of people’s salaries, including mine. The government also nationalised the entire private hospital sector for a period.

[Douglas Quaid]

It’s funny that the cost of living crisis is a direct result of the huge overreaction from our and other governments to Covid. The whole reaction was man made and we’re all poorer now from it. Apart from the people that became incredibly rich that is.

They have a lot of power. Or maybe the people that influenced them have the power.

[Griffith4ever]

Bradgate said:

We found out in the Spring of 2020 just how much power governments can still exercise in the real world. Lockdown was the biggest curtailment of people’s liberties since the war. Furlough meant that the government supported the entire economy by paying millions of people’s salaries, including mine. The government also nationalised the entire private hospital sector for a period.

Saved me typing that. Though I'd add it was the police excercising the most "power" (often innapropriately).

[Hants PHer]

Dingu said:

Lots. They can affect society, it happened by cutting absolutely everything to the bone. It’s just expensive and we have a country of selfish assholes who aren’t willing to pay for it.

But if selfish folk tell the government "We object to tax levels that would fully fund public services", doesn't that show that the British electorate has control rather than the government? Even Rachel Reeves seems to have ruled out a tax and spend agenda, presumably because of what they think the voters - even Labour voters - desire.

Posters have mentioned the government's lockdown measures, but would they have been implemented if there had been huge public opposition? Put simply, we got the lockdown measures that the majority wanted. Not only that, but Labour, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly all supported the policies. It may have been different if Labour, or Wee Nippy Sturgeon, had been demanding that the virus be "let rip".

[Griffith4ever]

Hants PHer said:

Put simply, we got the lockdown measures that the majority wanted.

I think we got the lockdown that the hysterical media wanted, and they represent the hysterical public.

I agree the majority wanted to stay at home and get paid to BBQ.

The media has more power over the government than anyone ultimately. They are the "window" into their behaviour.......

[StevieBee]

Griffith4ever said:

Bradgate said:

We found out in the Spring of 2020 just how much power governments can still exercise in the real world. Lockdown was the biggest curtailment of people’s liberties since the war. Furlough meant that the government supported the entire economy by paying millions of people’s salaries, including mine. The government also nationalised the entire private hospital sector for a period.

Saved me typing that. Though I'd add it was the police excercising the most "power" (often innapropriately).

I think it's wrong to use Covid as a measure of the broader question on the power of Government.

Covid was a unique event and whilst it's now possible to look back and consider many of the decisions to be flawed, at the time, they were responding to an unknown threat using the advice of the scientific community to inform their actions. Without the latter, I very much doubt that society would have tolerated the restrictions put in place which would have then undermined the perceived power government has.

[shirt]

A good primer

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Who-Runs-This-Place-Anato...

[Griffith4ever]

StevieBee said:

Griffith4ever said:

Bradgate said:

We found out in the Spring of 2020 just how much power governments can still exercise in the real world. Lockdown was the biggest curtailment of people’s liberties since the war. Furlough meant that the government supported the entire economy by paying millions of people’s salaries, including mine. The government also nationalised the entire private hospital sector for a period.

Saved me typing that. Though I'd add it was the police excercising the most "power" (often innapropriately).

I think it's wrong to use Covid as a measure of the broader question on the power of Government.

Covid was a unique event and whilst it's now possible to look back and consider many of the decisions to be flawed, at the time, they were responding to an unknown threat using the advice of the scientific community to inform their actions. Without the latter, I very much doubt that society would have tolerated the restrictions put in place which would have then undermined the perceived power government has.

It was still a demonstration of pure power - "I am telling you to stay at home" - I'll never forget that. Ultimately though the power shifted immediately to the police - which was "interesting".

Also, the scientific advice, good or bad, was often ignored, and instead BJ followed the advice of what he read in the FT each morning - and that's not speculation, it was in the Whatsapp messages. - The FT had a huge influence.

[boxst]

Griffith4ever said:

Bradgate said:

We found out in the Spring of 2020 just how much power governments can still exercise in the real world. Lockdown was the biggest curtailment of people’s liberties since the war. Furlough meant that the government supported the entire economy by paying millions of people’s salaries, including mine. The government also nationalised the entire private hospital sector for a period.

Saved me typing that. Though I'd add it was the police excercising the most "power" (often innapropriately).

Yes. I was surprised at how much control the government could exert and the fact that the majority of the population just agreed. Up until that point I would have said that governments in non-dictatorship countries didn't really have that much power. I was wrong.