Council Tax in Scandinavia - stone me!
Discussion
I was in Sweden recently and was chatting to a colleague over dinner. This chap lives in Stockholm - which is a fairly expensive area, so he's got a hefty mortgage to pay for his house. What shocked me though, was his "local Tax" - the equivalent of our Council Tax (Rates). For a modest three bed house he pays the equivalent of £700 per month. Now for him to have £700 to spend, he needs to earn about £1200 per month (before Tax) - just to pay his rates! Obviously he's got many other living costs as well - truly horrendous!
He also said that public services are a joke - very long waiting lists for hospital treatment, for example. Don't think I'll be moving to Sweden any time soon!
>> Edited by srebbe64 on Saturday 17th September 11:42
He also said that public services are a joke - very long waiting lists for hospital treatment, for example. Don't think I'll be moving to Sweden any time soon!
>> Edited by srebbe64 on Saturday 17th September 11:42
sounds high but what does he get for it?
Remember that here in the UK our local taxes actually only pay for a portion of the cost of running the local government. We only pay to top up what the national government pays to our area.
If we paid the full costs of running our local areas our local taxes would be astronomic!
The real comparison is the overall tax take of the state, local and national.
Remember that here in the UK our local taxes actually only pay for a portion of the cost of running the local government. We only pay to top up what the national government pays to our area.
If we paid the full costs of running our local areas our local taxes would be astronomic!
The real comparison is the overall tax take of the state, local and national.
Total tax take in Sweden is 64 per cent of the Gross National Product. From 50 to 60 per cent of the salary of a typical industrial worker is taken in taxes. But in addition to this basic income tax, there is an additional 22.5 per cent in value-added tax (VAT.
and also the local taxes mentioned by strebbe
One reason why they need such a vast tax take is that one-third of Sweden's work force works for the state.
They have generous welfare benefits, but I don't think those living on benefits exceeds the European average.
Fundamentally the problem is that Sweden has been organised as a Feminist paradise. They have a very large state sector, which employs a disproportionate number of women.
Any women in work also have access to a universal state provided child care system (a good or bad thing depending on your point of view)
Given the burdens on business it is somewhat of a surprise to me that Sweden has managed to maintain a functioning 1st world economy, whether this will continue in the era of globalisation is open to question.
Edited to add: Some of the figures may be slightly out of date because I took them from an old article, but they give you the general idea.
>> Edited by JagLover on Saturday 17th September 12:21
and also the local taxes mentioned by strebbe
One reason why they need such a vast tax take is that one-third of Sweden's work force works for the state.
They have generous welfare benefits, but I don't think those living on benefits exceeds the European average.
Fundamentally the problem is that Sweden has been organised as a Feminist paradise. They have a very large state sector, which employs a disproportionate number of women.
Any women in work also have access to a universal state provided child care system (a good or bad thing depending on your point of view)
Given the burdens on business it is somewhat of a surprise to me that Sweden has managed to maintain a functioning 1st world economy, whether this will continue in the era of globalisation is open to question.
Edited to add: Some of the figures may be slightly out of date because I took them from an old article, but they give you the general idea.
>> Edited by JagLover on Saturday 17th September 12:21
cymtriks said:
I have worked for local government and almost all of the activity is waste.
Do tell !!
Jesus I could write a book about it. Just local authority accounting practises alone are laughable. Designed specifically to require annual increases in budget. In the end it will all have to stop. Just one example of waste is the Education Department. The only usefull function they peroform is to pay teachers wages. A simple task that could be outsourced by individual schools. Instead we have multi million pound departments with Directors, advisors and all manner of useless interfering busy bodies, all merrily assisting schools and FE colleges with meeting targets. In truth the 2 or 3% of this work that is needed could be provided by those with the skills operating as consultants and working directly for the schools. THE ENTIRE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT in every town and borough could be scrapped and the money saved given directly to the schools to spend on books and facilities. There really is absolutely no need for them at all to exist, except of course to keep the parasites in employment.
I used to be a parent governor of a local infant school. Some chavs decided to break the school gate and I said that I (personally) would buy a new 'vandal proof' one - because the school budget was all used up.
After looking on some databases we've got at work, I found a superb gate that could be delivered and fitted for £1500. However, I was prevented from buying it because the supplier wasn't an 'approved' company. As such, we had to buy an inferior gate for £5000, which I refused to pay for personally on general principle! Quite frankly, the government waste is scandalous.
After looking on some databases we've got at work, I found a superb gate that could be delivered and fitted for £1500. However, I was prevented from buying it because the supplier wasn't an 'approved' company. As such, we had to buy an inferior gate for £5000, which I refused to pay for personally on general principle! Quite frankly, the government waste is scandalous.
JagLover said:
Sweden is notorious for high taxes, Income taxes are also very high.
It is an object lesson in what happens when those dependent on the state reach a critical mass of the electorate and the state is then run purely for their benefit.
They have lots of wind turbines too. Nearly beyond help.
nonegreen said:
I reckon I could cut local taxes in the UK by 90% and still improve services. I have worked for local government and almost all of the activity is waste.
I've also worked in 2 of the larger central government departments & the same could be applied there.
Scrap certain government functions at Moorfoot & Norcross for a start.
groucho said:
The beer's expensive too.
TBH I didn't find beer or booze (in Malmo & Stockholm) to be much different than in Central London (still not cheap though).
The women, cleanliness & politeness made it up. One of my colleagues commented that Swedish women were almost apologetic when rejecting his advances
Well Abba didn't do too bad..........
I work all night, I work all day, to pay the bills I have to pay
Ain’t it sad
And still there never seems to be a single penny left for me
That’s too bad
In my dreams I have a plan
If I got me a wealthy man
I wouldn’t have to work at all, I’d fool around and have a ball...
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
A man like that is hard to find but I can’t get him off my mind
Ain’t it sad
And if he happens to be free I bet he wouldn’t fancy me
That’s too bad
So I must leave, I’ll have to go
To las vegas or monaco
And win a fortune in a game, my life will never be the same...
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
It’s a rich man’s world
I work all night, I work all day, to pay the bills I have to pay
Ain’t it sad
And still there never seems to be a single penny left for me
That’s too bad
In my dreams I have a plan
If I got me a wealthy man
I wouldn’t have to work at all, I’d fool around and have a ball...
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
A man like that is hard to find but I can’t get him off my mind
Ain’t it sad
And if he happens to be free I bet he wouldn’t fancy me
That’s too bad
So I must leave, I’ll have to go
To las vegas or monaco
And win a fortune in a game, my life will never be the same...
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world
It’s a rich man’s world
bga said:
I've found most of the Scandinavians work productively for 7/8 hours a day & then go home. Really winds the Yanks up who work twice the hours, get the same amount done but have to be seen to be working long hours.
And social mobility as actually greater in Sweden than in the States. In fact a recent study of developed nations found that high-taxing Scandanavian countries have the greatest opportunity for social mobility whilst the US is the worst. The UK came second last in the study and was the only nation where social mobility is getting worse. The study suggested this was because of high house prices and middle class parents working the education system better than working class ones.
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