BTCC Driving Standards
Discussion
Saw quite bit of the BTCC coverage from Silverstone this weekend. The format encourages close racing and the weight penalties, and part reverse grid races ensure the racing is close and spectacular. There's a lot of driver skill, great car preparation, and plenty of commitment.
There is though, a hell of lot of contact. I am amazed that the Stewards don't smack more wrists, and apply penalties for over-aggressive driving. There are far too many incidents which are outside the bounds of 'racing incidents' and for a series which attracts a lot of TV coverage - I don't think it sets a good example of what motoring sport is.
What do you think - should BTCC clean up its act?
There is though, a hell of lot of contact. I am amazed that the Stewards don't smack more wrists, and apply penalties for over-aggressive driving. There are far too many incidents which are outside the bounds of 'racing incidents' and for a series which attracts a lot of TV coverage - I don't think it sets a good example of what motoring sport is.
What do you think - should BTCC clean up its act?
Paul Drawmer said:
I don't think it sets a good example of what motoring sport is.
What do you think - should BTCC clean up its act?
It went downhill years ago, and the culprit was Frank Sytner.
Remember the final race in 1988? with a blatant bit of barging by his team mate?
Imho RACMSA should have dealt with that severely and stopped the rot. They didn't and that is why we have the situation today and chimpanzees were allowed to race. Plato has enough skill not to need this but if the opposition sinks to these levels.
Sadly in the Playstation generation where the public have grown up with barging as an accepted tactic on video games expect these tactics.
Edited highlights don't show the extremely skillful non contact bits, but door handle to door handle stuff does happen albeit less frequently than it ought.
Sadly as happened in Wales yesterday real life doesn't have a reset and play again button.
So yes the stewards should crack down.
Flat in Fifth said:
Plato has enough skill not to need this but if the opposition sinks to these levels.
From where I was sitting Plato was the worst one. In my opinion that guy can be a complete plonker sometimes!
Overall I didnt think that it got that out of hand.
For people who thought the btcc race was bad they should have seen the clio race earlier in the day!!!!
DodgyDave said:
Plato has enough skill not to need this but if the opposition sinks to these levels.
From where I was sitting Plato was the worst one. In my opinion that guy can be a complete plonker sometimes!
Overall I didnt think that it got that out of hand.
For people who thought the btcc race was bad they should have seen the clio race earlier in the day!!!!
And that's the problem - The Clio guys are BTCC wanabes and they have adopted the style they have seen in BTCC - The driving standards are uniformly dreadful and somebody is going to get hurt sooner or later.
At the end of the day - door handle to door handle racing is a spectacle... and no driver is going to shy away from a bit of bumping to loose out on a place/victory....maybe they should have football style cards to warn the driver mid race of his actions....but touring cars should be close racing , leave the drivers etiquette to the open wheel classes.
Great theory - Problem is they will take the p*** unless there is a line taken that cannot be crossed.
Perhaps somebody needs to remind them that the skill is in racing closely without unreasonable contact - There have been races this season (Mondello for instance) which were akin to a demolition derby. Unacceptable
Perhaps somebody needs to remind them that the skill is in racing closely without unreasonable contact - There have been races this season (Mondello for instance) which were akin to a demolition derby. Unacceptable
Cant remember his name now but he drove an MG last year?
Old boy, in racing terms.
Towards the end of the year if someone put a move of him he had to let them past. His license was so full of points that anymore dodgy overtakes or defending would have meant he lost his race license.
Damn what was his name???
Old boy, in racing terms.
Towards the end of the year if someone put a move of him he had to let them past. His license was so full of points that anymore dodgy overtakes or defending would have meant he lost his race license.
Damn what was his name???
Flat in Fifth said:
It went downhill years ago, and the culprit was Frank Sytner.
Remember the final race in 1988? with a blatant bit of barging by his team mate?
Aren't you are thinking of 1990 when Steve Soper barged John Cleland off the track at Silverstone to allow Tim Harvey to win the title?
DodgyDave said:
Damn what was his name???
Anthony Reid?
www.mg-xpower.com/btcc/profileanthonyreid.asp?menu=10
DodgyDave said:
Damn what was his name???
Yeah, I know who you mean, Scottish chap.
In the post race interviews it was never him, always someone else's fault.
Missed the 2nd BTCC race but did see the 2nd Porker race.
Harvey just hanging on to 2nd, Templeman (I think, or whoever the SAS Team driver was) from 4th at a slo-ish right hander used Harvey as second brake.
Putting the 3rd place SAS driver second, him 3rd and Harvey 4th, not for long though.
Harvey then carefully rear-ends this prawn going into another corner, skillfuly IMO dumping prawn in the gravel trap and Harvey ends up 3rd.
Class, IMO!!!
Back on topic, leave it alone, it's fine.
Other than they do need to get more cars/teams into the BTCC pot.
FourWheelDrift said:
Flat in Fifth said:
It went downhill years ago, and the culprit was Frank Sytner.
Remember the final race in 1988? with a blatant bit of barging by his team mate?
Aren't you are thinking of 1990 when Steve Soper barged John Cleland off the track at Silverstone to allow Tim Harvey to win the title?
Yes you're right! The culprit was Soper barging Cleland. Somehow in the mists of time I'd got Sytner as the lucky champion. Sorry memory fades, but ironically the beneficiary Harvey is a prime example of another animal behind the wheel. Obviously leopards and spots.
Mind you I still blame Sytner for starting the decline.
The point made above re Clio cup sums it up. Where does it end? When Mr Richard Moneybags Head enters a clubman class and barges Mr Genuine Clubman off the track and end his racing career except perhaps in a wheelchair?
Or you meet Mr Utter Prat on public highway fired up from spectating on the TV?
If you want to watch contact motorsport then stock cars or banger racing. Somebody died at the weekend banger racing btw. Motor Sport is dangerous.
High profile series like BTCC need to be cracked down upon. Non-contact door to door stuff is not impossible, and if done well is damned exciting to do AND watch for true motorsport fans.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Monday 19th September 11:28
Joe911 said:
What do you think - should BTCC clean up its act?
Not if it wants to keep the ratings :-)
Exactly. I enjoy the contact when it's "nessacary". Plato got penlised when he tapped Tom Chilton for no good reason and I agreed with that.
Theres a fine line between Hard Ass and Dumb Ass.... And the Stewards need to be right on that line allowing action but also keeping it safe.
It's been said before on here, and it will be said again.
I was appalled at the quality of the driving. Mind you, if they don't crack down on it what do you expect.
If I remember rightly, Ivan Muller got a point or two on his license at Modello (or was it Knockhill) for punting Matt Neal from behind in the braking area. That he did it surprised me because he's normally the one of the best drivers out there. This time out "God's gift" Plato only gets eliminated for deliberately causing someone else to spin halfway down the pit-straight. Why no points (or more usefully a ban)? Plato struggles to go for a weekend without knocking someone's rear corner so they go spearing across the track or barging someone else off the track when he has masses of room himself. He is frankly a disgrace.
I don't mind a bit of genuine side-to-side paint-swapping, but pushing the rear corner of another car out of line or using other cars as an extra brake is just not on. For a start it's dangerous.
At least this year hasn't been a Vauxhall procession, but they won't get any of my support until they learn to race properly.
I was appalled at the quality of the driving. Mind you, if they don't crack down on it what do you expect.
If I remember rightly, Ivan Muller got a point or two on his license at Modello (or was it Knockhill) for punting Matt Neal from behind in the braking area. That he did it surprised me because he's normally the one of the best drivers out there. This time out "God's gift" Plato only gets eliminated for deliberately causing someone else to spin halfway down the pit-straight. Why no points (or more usefully a ban)? Plato struggles to go for a weekend without knocking someone's rear corner so they go spearing across the track or barging someone else off the track when he has masses of room himself. He is frankly a disgrace.
I don't mind a bit of genuine side-to-side paint-swapping, but pushing the rear corner of another car out of line or using other cars as an extra brake is just not on. For a start it's dangerous.
At least this year hasn't been a Vauxhall procession, but they won't get any of my support until they learn to race properly.
I flicked it over a couple of races back (Croft?) and was appalled at the quality of the driving, people in the top 5 positions being rear-ended and losing 5+ positions by a t
t who then took their place and no penalty. Drivers just barging other drivers out of the way.
I remember door handle to door handle racing of the past but there was generally consideration for the other driver. When there were all the good names in the sport like Cleland, Radasich(?), Winklehoff (?), Menu, Hoy, Tarquini, Swedish Volvo driver, Rouch etc. there was much more skill on display. You would get the odd incident when someone would over cook it, but it wasn’t (generally) blatant and there were consequences for the driver who made the mistake.
There were a few monkeys always driving into people, but they were generally number two drivers or with poor teams so near the rear. People like Patrick Watts, Anthony Reid and Matt Neal.
Unfortunately it seems that all the talented drivers have left the BTCC (along with most of the manufacturers) and just left the muppets, the only one I’m surprised is still there is Muller. He has too much class to be playing dodg’ems with the other BTCC fraggles.
t who then took their place and no penalty. Drivers just barging other drivers out of the way. I remember door handle to door handle racing of the past but there was generally consideration for the other driver. When there were all the good names in the sport like Cleland, Radasich(?), Winklehoff (?), Menu, Hoy, Tarquini, Swedish Volvo driver, Rouch etc. there was much more skill on display. You would get the odd incident when someone would over cook it, but it wasn’t (generally) blatant and there were consequences for the driver who made the mistake.
There were a few monkeys always driving into people, but they were generally number two drivers or with poor teams so near the rear. People like Patrick Watts, Anthony Reid and Matt Neal.
Unfortunately it seems that all the talented drivers have left the BTCC (along with most of the manufacturers) and just left the muppets, the only one I’m surprised is still there is Muller. He has too much class to be playing dodg’ems with the other BTCC fraggles.
mr_yogi said:
...Swedish Volvo driver...
Rickard Rydell.
Bizarrely enough Matt Neal seems to be one of the better drivers now. Agressive, yes and not afraid of a bit of contact but he rarely punts people off the road or nudges them into a spin. He usually allows them room on the track too.
Don't forget that in the good old days, there was an often laughable lack of parity between the cars. This made it somewhat easy for those in the best cars to shine . Naturally, if you're at the front, you get less involved in bumping and boring.
Soper's move on Cleland was by far the worst move I've ever seen in BTCC. Apparently Benetton offered him a works F1 drive when they viewed the footage...
>> Edited by rubystone on Monday 19th September 20:59
Soper's move on Cleland was by far the worst move I've ever seen in BTCC. Apparently Benetton offered him a works F1 drive when they viewed the footage...
>> Edited by rubystone on Monday 19th September 20:59
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