How do Wills work?
Discussion
I am after some info regarding the way Wills and POAs work, from anyone either in the business of with personal experience.
The situation is a friend (81) I have known for many years is in hospital and really not well, ill enough to raise these concerns. Sadly there is a fair chance he will not survive his issues. He lives on his own, no partner/kids but has a brother.
He has trusted a family, who I genuinely thought were just good people trying to help with doing both POAs. So they are currently at the healm in all ways and I am seeing signs that they may well not be what they seem.
I know for a fact my friend went to a solicitor a couple of years ago to do a Will and at the time he shared with me that he had left everything to his brother. His brother could do with some financial help so a good thing. I am hoping I am completely wrong here, but my question is regarding the Will, what happens if his ‘friends’ went through his stuff and shredded the Will? Surely it wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on if it cannot be found?
Many thanks in advance for any input.
The situation is a friend (81) I have known for many years is in hospital and really not well, ill enough to raise these concerns. Sadly there is a fair chance he will not survive his issues. He lives on his own, no partner/kids but has a brother.
He has trusted a family, who I genuinely thought were just good people trying to help with doing both POAs. So they are currently at the healm in all ways and I am seeing signs that they may well not be what they seem.
I know for a fact my friend went to a solicitor a couple of years ago to do a Will and at the time he shared with me that he had left everything to his brother. His brother could do with some financial help so a good thing. I am hoping I am completely wrong here, but my question is regarding the Will, what happens if his ‘friends’ went through his stuff and shredded the Will? Surely it wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on if it cannot be found?
Many thanks in advance for any input.
If you're concerned about abuse of a POA, report it.
https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d...
(And, possibly actionfraud)
If your friend dies, the POA ceases to be valid.
If there's no will, the rules of intestacy come into play: Basically, closest living relative will inherit - is that the brother?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and...
https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d...
(And, possibly actionfraud)
If your friend dies, the POA ceases to be valid.
If there's no will, the rules of intestacy come into play: Basically, closest living relative will inherit - is that the brother?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and...
silentbrown said:
If you're concerned about abuse of a POA, report it.
https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d...
(And, possibly actionfraud)
If your friend dies, the POA ceases to be valid.
If there's no will, the rules of intestacy come into play: Basically, closest living relative will inherit - is that the brother?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and...
So if he dies his 'friends' who have done both POAs cannot keep helping themselves to his money, they have keys to his place so his stuff might go missing, but his money and property can't?https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d...
(And, possibly actionfraud)
If your friend dies, the POA ceases to be valid.
If there's no will, the rules of intestacy come into play: Basically, closest living relative will inherit - is that the brother?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and...
I was rather hoping if someone has done a Will it might be saved somewhere for anyone to find/contest? Not the case here, but he could hate his brother (it happens) and then dies, the brother finds the Will leaving everything to the RSPCA and he rips it up. Sounds like a seriously flawed system to me.
PabloEscortCar said:
Mr E said:
The solicitor likely has kept the master copy of the will.
But only your friend will know.
But anyone other than him wouldn't know where he did it so them having a copy wouldn't help.But only your friend will know.
https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/
PabloEscortCar said:
So if he dies his 'friends' who have done both POAs cannot keep helping themselves to his money, they have keys to his place so his stuff might go missing, but his money and property can't?
In practice they probably still can, as the bank won't immediately know he's died. But at that point it's provably and indisputably fraud.PabloEscortCar said:
I was rather hoping if someone has done a Will it might be saved somewhere for anyone to find/contest.
National Will REGISTER stores the location (but not contents) of the will for a on-off fee, IIRC. e.g: "In the vault of Messrs Sue,Grabbit and Runne".National Will SAFE stores the actual will contents for an annual fee. Use of these is entirely optional.
A will typically appoints executors who are responsible for managing the deceased's estate. Effectively they hold the purse strings until the estate is finally distributed. Executors could be close friends, family. I'd ask your friend who he appointed as executors.
Googie said:
PabloEscortCar said:
Mr E said:
The solicitor likely has kept the master copy of the will.
But only your friend will know.
But anyone other than him wouldn't know where he did it so them having a copy wouldn't help.But only your friend will know.
https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/
silentbrown said:
National Will REGISTER stores the location (but not contents) of the will for a on-off fee, IIRC. e.g: "In the vault of Messrs Sue,Grabbit and Runne".
National Will SAFE stores the actual will contents for an annual fee. Use of these is entirely optional.
A will typically appoints executors who are responsible for managing the deceased's estate. Effectively they hold the purse strings until the estate is finally distributed. Executors could be close friends, family. I'd ask your friend who he appointed as executors.
If it was a one off fee then that would be more likely to have been done, if he had to pay anything every year he would have forgetten to do it.National Will SAFE stores the actual will contents for an annual fee. Use of these is entirely optional.
A will typically appoints executors who are responsible for managing the deceased's estate. Effectively they hold the purse strings until the estate is finally distributed. Executors could be close friends, family. I'd ask your friend who he appointed as executors.
Mr E said:
I would hope he has told executor(s) that they are named for the role. And where the will is (and roughly what it says)
He may have not done so.
Picture the most disorganised person you know, double it, then dismiss any thoughts on living less than 150 years and you will be close to how he is.He may have not done so.
The fact he actually did a Will shocked me.
If your friend is still in command of his faculties then I assume the LPA's have been obtained correctly ie a Solicitor was present when signatures were obtained ?
At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
As such the new will would replace any other existing will in existence and there would be no need to destroy or even find any old wills.
The new will original copy will be stored presumably by the Solicitor who drew it up ( if that was the case )but not beyond possibility that the individuals drew it up themselves obviously and are therefore storing it themselves.
If you suspect that anything is wrong with the LPA's then you can speak to the OPG.
There was another rather sad tale on here recently about LPA's and abuse thereof which is worth reading.
At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
As such the new will would replace any other existing will in existence and there would be no need to destroy or even find any old wills.
The new will original copy will be stored presumably by the Solicitor who drew it up ( if that was the case )but not beyond possibility that the individuals drew it up themselves obviously and are therefore storing it themselves.
If you suspect that anything is wrong with the LPA's then you can speak to the OPG.
There was another rather sad tale on here recently about LPA's and abuse thereof which is worth reading.
PabloEscortCar said:
Mr E said:
The solicitor likely has kept the master copy of the will.
But only your friend will know.
But anyone other than him wouldn't know where he did it so them having a copy wouldn't help.But only your friend will know.
alscar said:
If your friend is still in command of his faculties then I assume the LPA's have been obtained correctly ie a Solicitor was present when signatures were obtained ?
??? There's absolutely no need to involve solicitors when creating a power of attorney. It's a very simple (but slightly slow) process. (and if he wasn't in command of his faculties, it would be too late to create an LPA)alscar said:
At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
Not sure what you're saying here: To be clear, an LPA does not grant the attorney the power to write a new will. The attorneys may may have persuaded the OP's friend to write a new will (or, to name themselves as executors), but this isn't anything to do with exercising the LPA. Edited by silentbrown on Monday 22 July 11:02
silentbrown said:
PabloEscortCar said:
So if he dies his 'friends' who have done both POAs cannot keep helping themselves to his money, they have keys to his place so his stuff might go missing, but his money and property can't?
In practice they probably still can, as the bank won't immediately know he's died. But at that point it's provably and indisputably fraud.PabloEscortCar said:
I was rather hoping if someone has done a Will it might be saved somewhere for anyone to find/contest.
National Will REGISTER stores the location (but not contents) of the will for a on-off fee, IIRC. e.g: "In the vault of Messrs Sue,Grabbit and Runne".National Will SAFE stores the actual will contents for an annual fee. Use of these is entirely optional.
A will typically appoints executors who are responsible for managing the deceased's estate. Effectively they hold the purse strings until the estate is finally distributed. Executors could be close friends, family. I'd ask your friend who he appointed as executors.
silentbrown said:
alscar said:
If your friend is still in command of his faculties then I assume the LPA's have been obtained correctly ie a Solicitor was present when signatures were obtained ?
??? There's absolutely no need to involve solicitors when creating a power of attorney. It's a very simple (but slightly slow) process. (and if he wasn't in command of his faculties, it would be too late to create an LPA)Yes I know but I was addressing the OP's thoughts that the individuals concerned my not have had the friends best interest at heart.
alscar said:
At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
Not sure what you're saying here: To be clear, an LPA does not grant the attorney the power to write a new will. The attorneys may may have persuaded the OP's friend to write a new will (or, to name themselves as executors), but this isn't anything to do with exercising the LPA. Again I'm quite familiar with what the LPA does ( I have had it do it for my own relatives/s ) but was suggesting that again if the individuals concerned had ulterior motives they could also do a new will at the same time.
Naturally if the individuals have acted only in the best interests of the friend then all good.
Edited by silentbrown on Monday 22 July 11:02
alscar said:
Again I'm quite familiar with what the LPA does ( I have had it do it for my own relatives/s ) but was suggesting that again if the individuals concerned had ulterior motives they could also do a new will at the same time.
OP (and us) will be all in the dark on this. But AIUI if an LPA has been exercised as you've lost mental capacity, then you don't have the mental capacity to write a new will.alscar said:
If your friend is still in command of his faculties then I assume the LPA's have been obtained correctly ie a Solicitor was present when signatures were obtained ?
At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
As such the new will would replace any other existing will in existence and there would be no need to destroy or even find any old wills.
The new will original copy will be stored presumably by the Solicitor who drew it up ( if that was the case )but not beyond possibility that the individuals drew it up themselves obviously and are therefore storing it themselves.
If you suspect that anything is wrong with the LPA's then you can speak to the OPG.
There was another rather sad tale on here recently about LPA's and abuse thereof which is worth reading.
I don't think either Wills or LPAs *have* to use solicitors so that's a bit of a red herring.At the same time its perfectly possible for the individual's obtaining them to also have sorted out a new will.
As such the new will would replace any other existing will in existence and there would be no need to destroy or even find any old wills.
The new will original copy will be stored presumably by the Solicitor who drew it up ( if that was the case )but not beyond possibility that the individuals drew it up themselves obviously and are therefore storing it themselves.
If you suspect that anything is wrong with the LPA's then you can speak to the OPG.
There was another rather sad tale on here recently about LPA's and abuse thereof which is worth reading.
Don't forget that people can also change both at any time [assuming they have mental capacity] so there could be other, newer, versions also in existence.
.
silentbrown said:
OP (and us) will be all in the dark on this. But AIUI if an LPA has been exercised as you've lost mental capacity, then you don't have the mental capacity to write a new will.
Indeed but you are assuming that the individuals the OP referred to with potential suspicion have done nothing wrong.Hence why I also suggested he take a look at that other recent thread.
I was under the impression from the OP's words that these other individuals were drawing up LPA's fresh.
Obviously I'm happy not to be correct and perhaps I'm just being too cynical.
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