Cars and Bikes
Discussion
Why do so few companies do both?
Off the top of my head I could only think of BMW, Honda and Suzuki who have done both on any scale. Peugeot dabble with some scooters, and I know there's specialist companies like Arial and KTM who make both in small numbers, and a few prototypes or showpieces. There are still some big omissions though. Ford and Mercedes who make buses, trucks, tractors, vans and millions of cars. Daewoo who made everything from microwaves to cargo ships never bothered with a motorbike.
Subaru, Alfa Romeo, Renault and Audi all owe us decent bikes too.
Then there's bike makers like Yamaha and Kawasaki who really ought to make nifty little sports cars or off roaders, or Harley who could make a hot rod type thing.
It seems like a missed opportunity from a branding point of view, especially for the big car companies who could add on a motorcycle division fairly cheaply. I understand it would be a big ask for Norton or Bimota to build a car, especially at any scale but surely Triumph or MV Agusta might have had a go.
Why is it? And what ones would you like to see?
Off the top of my head I could only think of BMW, Honda and Suzuki who have done both on any scale. Peugeot dabble with some scooters, and I know there's specialist companies like Arial and KTM who make both in small numbers, and a few prototypes or showpieces. There are still some big omissions though. Ford and Mercedes who make buses, trucks, tractors, vans and millions of cars. Daewoo who made everything from microwaves to cargo ships never bothered with a motorbike.
Subaru, Alfa Romeo, Renault and Audi all owe us decent bikes too.
Then there's bike makers like Yamaha and Kawasaki who really ought to make nifty little sports cars or off roaders, or Harley who could make a hot rod type thing.
It seems like a missed opportunity from a branding point of view, especially for the big car companies who could add on a motorcycle division fairly cheaply. I understand it would be a big ask for Norton or Bimota to build a car, especially at any scale but surely Triumph or MV Agusta might have had a go.
Why is it? And what ones would you like to see?
As above, there's very little overlap.
The few who do are ones who kept bike and car production, whereas many other bike manufacturers failed while some transitioned, with varying success, from bikes to cars (e.g. Swallow/Jaguar, Triumph, NSU). Bicycle to motorcycle to car production was a natural progression to grow, Daimler and Ford started at cars.
Btw Peugeot (cars) exited scooters a few years ago. Ford exited trucks, proper trucks (18-wheelers/HGVs) years ago although it does have a JV with Otosan.
Bike brands tend to sit in groups making large volumes of budget bikes or making similar small-engined/small vehicle products e.g. ATVs, jet skis, ride on mowers like Honda or Kawasaki do, similarly Victory/Indian as part of Polaris.
Bike manufacturer's will have neither the money, expertise nor resources to enter the car market with anything other than very niche products, which will risk bankrupting them during development or through disappointing sales. Car brands have little to offer the bike market either, which already has it's own very strong, storied brands. Electric bikes, however, may be a different matter.
The few who do are ones who kept bike and car production, whereas many other bike manufacturers failed while some transitioned, with varying success, from bikes to cars (e.g. Swallow/Jaguar, Triumph, NSU). Bicycle to motorcycle to car production was a natural progression to grow, Daimler and Ford started at cars.
Btw Peugeot (cars) exited scooters a few years ago. Ford exited trucks, proper trucks (18-wheelers/HGVs) years ago although it does have a JV with Otosan.
Bike brands tend to sit in groups making large volumes of budget bikes or making similar small-engined/small vehicle products e.g. ATVs, jet skis, ride on mowers like Honda or Kawasaki do, similarly Victory/Indian as part of Polaris.
Bike manufacturer's will have neither the money, expertise nor resources to enter the car market with anything other than very niche products, which will risk bankrupting them during development or through disappointing sales. Car brands have little to offer the bike market either, which already has it's own very strong, storied brands. Electric bikes, however, may be a different matter.
Edited by DP14 on Thursday 25th July 23:04
DP14 said:
Bike manufacturer's will have neither the money, expertise nor resources to enter the car market with anything other than very niche products, which will risk bankrupting them during development or through disappointing sales. Car brands have little to offer the bike market either, which already has it's own very strong, storied brands. Electric bikes, however, may be a different matter.
Ariel is an example, the Atom and the Ace.Edited by DP14 on Thursday 25th July 23:04
Oceanrower said:
Mercedes own (or, at least, did own) 25% of MV Agusta…
That's a good example of what seems to be missing. I didn't know Mercedes owned a chunk of MV. Surely even a badge engineered Turismo would open up a whole new market? A relatively small investment to give it more of a Mercedes feel could produce a really appealing bike.DP14 said:
As above, there's very little overlap.
The few who do are ones who kept bike and car production, whereas many other bike manufacturers failed while some transitioned, with varying success, from bikes to cars (e.g. Swallow/Jaguar, Triumph, NSU). Bicycle to motorcycle to car production was a natural progression to grow, Daimler and Ford started at cars.
Btw Peugeot (cars) exited scooters a few years ago. Ford exited trucks, proper trucks (18-wheelers/HGVs) years ago although it does have a JV with Otosan.
Bike brands tend to sit in groups making large volumes of budget bikes or making similar small-engined/small vehicle products e.g. ATVs, jet skis, ride on mowers like Honda or Kawasaki do, similarly Victory/Indian as part of Polaris.
Bike manufacturer's will have neither the money, expertise nor resources to enter the car market with anything other than very niche products, which will risk bankrupting them during development or through disappointing sales. Car brands have little to offer the bike market either, which already has it's own very strong, storied brands. Electric bikes, however, may be a different matter.
BSA, Raleigh, Singer, Humber and Rover all had a history of starting with bike/motorcycle manufacturing before moving into cars. Rover invented the "safety bicycle" frame made up of triangles which is the basic design of all bicycles since.The few who do are ones who kept bike and car production, whereas many other bike manufacturers failed while some transitioned, with varying success, from bikes to cars (e.g. Swallow/Jaguar, Triumph, NSU). Bicycle to motorcycle to car production was a natural progression to grow, Daimler and Ford started at cars.
Btw Peugeot (cars) exited scooters a few years ago. Ford exited trucks, proper trucks (18-wheelers/HGVs) years ago although it does have a JV with Otosan.
Bike brands tend to sit in groups making large volumes of budget bikes or making similar small-engined/small vehicle products e.g. ATVs, jet skis, ride on mowers like Honda or Kawasaki do, similarly Victory/Indian as part of Polaris.
Bike manufacturer's will have neither the money, expertise nor resources to enter the car market with anything other than very niche products, which will risk bankrupting them during development or through disappointing sales. Car brands have little to offer the bike market either, which already has it's own very strong, storied brands. Electric bikes, however, may be a different matter.
Edited by DP14 on Thursday 25th July 23:04
Lo-Fi said:
I've always wondered why BMW don't make vans, trucks etc, and Merc don't make bikes. I just assumed they agreed not to tread on each others toes.
I can sort of understand that. BMWs brand is sport and luxury cars. I can see why they might think vans would undermine that. By the same token I can see why Volvo whose brand is about sensible, practical cars wouldn't want to build bikes. JuanCarlosFandango said:
...I was thinking more of the branding angle.
From a brand perspective, they are not strong enough.The strength car brands have built over decades is mirrored in the bike world and car brands can't just elbow them out of the way. Land Rover has its off road heritage, so does Honda, BMW and KTM with their Dakar rally history. Ferrari has its 'emotion' and race heritage, so does Ducati. Porsche, BMW, etc. have their performance, race wins and iconic liveries, so do Yamaha, Honda, err BMW, etc. Developing that legitimacy and authenticity would take time.
There's been some branding exercises e.g. a Lotus bike, at least a concept, a Lambo Ducati, Harley-Davidson Ford pickups, just as there have been Ferrari, AMG and Aston branded boats. But these have a limited fanboy market, just as few stereo shoppers will seriously consider a Lamborghini or Porsche exhaust-themed item or (slightly differently) Porsche Design is not troubling Rolex or Breitling.
FIAT flirted with motocycle production in the 50's. This amazing thing never made production but had a few innovations, including a suspension system that worked from between the hub and rim
https://thevintagent.com/2019/11/19/moto-major-ita...
https://thevintagent.com/2019/11/19/moto-major-ita...
Quite a few arms manufacturers diversified into motorbikes so the arms trade provides a thread linking car and motorbike manufacturers.
Small arms manufacturers BSA, Enfield and Benelli spring to mind. Motorbikes were probably a fairly simple product to diversify into post WWI. BMW (aero engines) Porsche (tanks etc) and Messerschmidt were banned from military activity post WWII so concentrated on civilian motor transport.
Small arms manufacturers BSA, Enfield and Benelli spring to mind. Motorbikes were probably a fairly simple product to diversify into post WWI. BMW (aero engines) Porsche (tanks etc) and Messerschmidt were banned from military activity post WWII so concentrated on civilian motor transport.
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