Self assessment in the age of "paper-free" banking!
Discussion
I made up my sole trader books a few weeks ago, and decided to go online and do my self-assessment today.
I've got 3 pension incomes, self-employment, and a small amount of interest (under a grand) from about 10 savings accounts and current accounts with 4 different banks.
I've received nothing on paper from the banks, and none of their websites offer an "annual summary or "show interest paid" option that I could see. I had to go through the monthly statements for each account, adding up all the interest received. That took a fair while.
I then discovered that my state pension wasn't pre-filled on the self-assessment, but my company pensions were.
They also keep insisting that one of my company pensions is employment income?
I couldn't see a way of getting an annual statement from DWP for my state pension, so back to the online bank statements, adding up all the pension payments.
Annoying that the only things I get printed statements for - the company pensions - are the only things pre-filled on the .gov website.
To top it off, the state pension tips my annual income over the threshold for repaying an old student loan!
At least I'd been putting away enough each month to cover the bill.
I've got 3 pension incomes, self-employment, and a small amount of interest (under a grand) from about 10 savings accounts and current accounts with 4 different banks.
I've received nothing on paper from the banks, and none of their websites offer an "annual summary or "show interest paid" option that I could see. I had to go through the monthly statements for each account, adding up all the interest received. That took a fair while.
I then discovered that my state pension wasn't pre-filled on the self-assessment, but my company pensions were.
They also keep insisting that one of my company pensions is employment income?
I couldn't see a way of getting an annual statement from DWP for my state pension, so back to the online bank statements, adding up all the pension payments.
Annoying that the only things I get printed statements for - the company pensions - are the only things pre-filled on the .gov website.
To top it off, the state pension tips my annual income over the threshold for repaying an old student loan!
At least I'd been putting away enough each month to cover the bill.
Mr Pointy said:
I have a couple od accounts with the Nationwide & there is a section for requesting annual tax certificates - although it comes by post. Isn't there something similar on your bank's website?
Indeed. Every bank I've asked either has this option or will send a tax certificate on request. Slight faff but not a big deal. Thanks. I don't log into the Nationwide website that often, as it's a pain having to use the card reader.
I've done a bit of digging, and I can see some annual interest statements on the Lloyds banking website - they are sent as messages to my "inbox" on the website, along with the monthly statements.
Strangely, although I have the annual statements for 2020, 21, 22 and 23, I have nothing for the tax year 2023/4.
All the other years, they were "sent" to my "inbox" early June. Nothing this year? The years that I can see, I was still getting paper copies.
Maybe there's a message limit on the inbox? I've deleted some, see what turns up.
I've done a bit of digging, and I can see some annual interest statements on the Lloyds banking website - they are sent as messages to my "inbox" on the website, along with the monthly statements.
Strangely, although I have the annual statements for 2020, 21, 22 and 23, I have nothing for the tax year 2023/4.
All the other years, they were "sent" to my "inbox" early June. Nothing this year? The years that I can see, I was still getting paper copies.
Maybe there's a message limit on the inbox? I've deleted some, see what turns up.
alscar said:
NW as already shown.
Lloyds send me my tax certificates each year automatically.
There are a couple I have to phone each year but otherwise all are normally sent or ordered via the portal or printable from the portal ie RCI / Marcus etc.
I used to get the Lloyds annual statements by post each year, and file them with my "books", mileage log and pension P60s ready to do the self-assessment. Nothing received this year though.Lloyds send me my tax certificates each year automatically.
There are a couple I have to phone each year but otherwise all are normally sent or ordered via the portal or printable from the portal ie RCI / Marcus etc.
clockworks said:
Thanks. I don't log into the Nationwide website that often, as it's a pain having to use the card reader.
I've done a bit of digging, and I can see some annual interest statements on the Lloyds banking website - they are sent as messages to my "inbox" on the website, along with the monthly statements.
Strangely, although I have the annual statements for 2020, 21, 22 and 23, I have nothing for the tax year 2023/4.
All the other years, they were "sent" to my "inbox" early June. Nothing this year? The years that I can see, I was still getting paper copies.
Maybe there's a message limit on the inbox? I've deleted some, see what turns up.
Agree about NW’s card reader - I set mine up with the texted code instead which seems to be far easier. I've done a bit of digging, and I can see some annual interest statements on the Lloyds banking website - they are sent as messages to my "inbox" on the website, along with the monthly statements.
Strangely, although I have the annual statements for 2020, 21, 22 and 23, I have nothing for the tax year 2023/4.
All the other years, they were "sent" to my "inbox" early June. Nothing this year? The years that I can see, I was still getting paper copies.
Maybe there's a message limit on the inbox? I've deleted some, see what turns up.
Bit odd that Lloyds haven’t sent the 23/4 year to you by now.
alscar said:
Agree about NW’s card reader - I set mine up with the texted code instead which seems to be far easier.
Bit odd that Lloyds haven’t sent the 23/4 year to you by now.
I'll see if I can change the Nationwide login to a text code. Bit odd that Lloyds haven’t sent the 23/4 year to you by now.
It could be that my Lloyds message box was too full, bit no prompt to tell me that. I've archived a load now, see if that fixes it.
I've just tried looking at all the messages received since April, and I've found the annual statement for the current account, but nothing for the savings accounts.
Trying to view the messages on the app (Android tablet) doesn't work, I have to download as a PDF, then search for and open it. A right pain.
I've found the "go paperless" settings page, and set everything back to "by post".
If they are going to make it so hard to find paperless stuff, they can just waste money on posting it to me.
I'll try and do the same for Santander and Nationwide. Don't suppose I'll have that option with First Direct?
It should be so easy for them just to do a single annual tax summary for all accounts that are held by a customer - everything on one form.
Trying to view the messages on the app (Android tablet) doesn't work, I have to download as a PDF, then search for and open it. A right pain.
I've found the "go paperless" settings page, and set everything back to "by post".
If they are going to make it so hard to find paperless stuff, they can just waste money on posting it to me.
I'll try and do the same for Santander and Nationwide. Don't suppose I'll have that option with First Direct?
It should be so easy for them just to do a single annual tax summary for all accounts that are held by a customer - everything on one form.
And I still haven't figured out the "state pension" figure.
Some sources suggest that I should have received an annual statement from DWP. I didn't get one.
Some sources suggest the figures should've been pre-filled on my tax return. Boxes were blank.
Some sources suggest that I need to work it out on the number of weeks from my 66th birthday up to 5th April.
I actually added up all the payments received during the tax year, rather than the qualifying weeks. Different figure, since it's paid in arrears...
I've been doing self-assessment for 25 years, never had problems before. So much simpler when it was on paper.
Some sources suggest that I should have received an annual statement from DWP. I didn't get one.
Some sources suggest the figures should've been pre-filled on my tax return. Boxes were blank.
Some sources suggest that I need to work it out on the number of weeks from my 66th birthday up to 5th April.
I actually added up all the payments received during the tax year, rather than the qualifying weeks. Different figure, since it's paid in arrears...
I've been doing self-assessment for 25 years, never had problems before. So much simpler when it was on paper.
The DWP NEVER provides any sort of statement of the total amount of State Pension you received in the previous tax year i.e. they don't produce something like a P60 as other pension providers are legally obliged to do.
What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
Eric Mc said:
The DWP NEVER provides any sort of statement of the total amount of State Pension you received in the previous tax year i.e. they don't produce something like a P60 as other pension providers are legally obliged to do.
What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
So nice of them to make it so simple and easy for everyone! What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
Eric Mc said:
The DWP NEVER provides any sort of statement of the total amount of State Pension you received in the previous tax year i.e. they don't produce something like a P60 as other pension providers are legally obliged to do.
What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
Thanks for clearing that up.What they DO do is provide a letter a couple of months BEFORE the tax year starts telling you what your State Pension is GOING to be. For instance, you should have received a PAPER letter around February 2023 telling you what your 2023/24 State Pension was GOING to be.
For many years the letter quoted a weekly amount. The newer version of these letters now shows a FOUR WEEKLY amount. Note, this is NOT a monthly amount.
I did get the letter about the 2024/5 amount, a few weeks before the first payment.
For 2023/4, I got a letter just after my 66th birthday at the end of May. Obviously the first payment was lower than the normal amount.
For 2023/4, I just added up all the payments received up to and including 5/4/24.
For my 2024/5 tax return, it should be simpler - 13x the 4 weekly amount.
Out of interest, how come the state pension amount wasn't pre-filled? Is that just because it was the first year of payment?
Don't know to be honest. I never rely on HMRC prefilling tax data as I don't trust them one inch to get it right, specially when it comes to State Pension matters.
I started receiving my State Pension a few months ago. What they have done (as is normal) is amend my PAYE tax code for my employment by deducting the State Pension total from the tax allowances. That is all well and good but, as in your case, unless you are born on 6 April, the ACTUAL amount of State Pension you get in the first year of receiving State Pension is never the full annual amount. However, the DWP provides the full annual amount to HMRC who dutifully reduce your tax coding by too much in that first State pension year.
I started receiving my State Pension a few months ago. What they have done (as is normal) is amend my PAYE tax code for my employment by deducting the State Pension total from the tax allowances. That is all well and good but, as in your case, unless you are born on 6 April, the ACTUAL amount of State Pension you get in the first year of receiving State Pension is never the full annual amount. However, the DWP provides the full annual amount to HMRC who dutifully reduce your tax coding by too much in that first State pension year.
Eric Mc said:
Don't know to be honest. I never rely on HMRC prefilling tax data as I don't trust them one inch to get it right, specially when it comes to State Pension matters.
I started receiving my State Pension a few months ago. What they have done (as is normal) is amend my PAYE tax code for my employment by deducting the State Pension total from the tax allowances. That is all well and good but, as in your case, unless you are born on 6 April, the ACTUAL amount of State Pension you get in the first year of receiving State Pension is never the full annual amount. However, the DWP provides the full annual amount to HMRC who dutifully reduce your tax coding by too much in that first State pension year.
Yes, I noticed that I had some personal allowance left over, which reduced the amount I have to pay on my self-employment.I started receiving my State Pension a few months ago. What they have done (as is normal) is amend my PAYE tax code for my employment by deducting the State Pension total from the tax allowances. That is all well and good but, as in your case, unless you are born on 6 April, the ACTUAL amount of State Pension you get in the first year of receiving State Pension is never the full annual amount. However, the DWP provides the full annual amount to HMRC who dutifully reduce your tax coding by too much in that first State pension year.
Eric Mc said:
In the year you started receiving your State Pension, did they reduce your Tax Code by the correct amount?
They very often don't.
They reduced it by too much. It would've been correct if I had received the state pension for the full year.They very often don't.
Thing is, I didn't pay any tax at all on my company pensions in April, May or June of 2023 (total payment a shade under £1k a month).
In July, they dropped the tax code on both, and left those codes in force for the rest of the tax year. The code was dropped as if I'd been receiving the state pension since April 6th, but it actually started 24th May.
I guess this ties in with the state pension amount not being pre-filled on my tax return - all HMRC "know" is that DWP told them my weekly amount, not the starting date.
I've done the calculation, total gross income, less standard personal allowance, at 20%. Matches exactly to what I've already paid (company pensions P60 data) plus what HMRC say I owe.
It works out in the end for me, but I can see how it could be a big issue for someone born a lot later in the tax year, in their first year of getting the state pension on top of employment or private pensions already in payment. They could get hit with a big tax deduction in the final month or two of the tax year, then have to wait to get a refund.
Government departments really should communicate better with each other.
Similar lack of communication being discussed on another thread. Inheritance tax. HMRC send a tax bill after 6 months, but the executors might still be waiting for probate before they can settle the estate to raise the cash to pay HMRC.
Edited by clockworks on Monday 5th August 14:51
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