Discussion
Can anyone give me information on spring lengths and what is recommended on spring rates? the bible states "typical" 250lb/in @front 270lb to rear. My current ride height is far to low.Also polybushes which ones are best for fast road (with a bit of comfort)
>> Edited by nrbflier on Tuesday 20th September 22:02
>> Edited by nrbflier on Tuesday 20th September 22:02
Bugsy your wanted If you have the original equipment, then I would get an expert opinion on the shocks and springs.
Why not run the car into Austec to see what they say before you go replacing springs and then possibly find out the shocks are knackered as well.
The reason I suggest this route, is that the replacement original springs are about £180 plus the VAT, when a kit with shocks and springs can be as little as £425 plus VAT.
If you do decide to go for springs only, consider 400lb on the front and 325lb on the rear, I promise you it works rather well
Why not run the car into Austec to see what they say before you go replacing springs and then possibly find out the shocks are knackered as well.
The reason I suggest this route, is that the replacement original springs are about £180 plus the VAT, when a kit with shocks and springs can be as little as £425 plus VAT.
If you do decide to go for springs only, consider 400lb on the front and 325lb on the rear, I promise you it works rather well
heyiga said:
Bugsy,
Has this changed a bit? I thought 400lb front and 300lb rear was the best combination?
PS. Mine is much better with the rear dampner adjusted up a few more clicks.
No, 325lb rear is the norm rate following testing but you can dial up other spring rates as long as you don't over compress the dampers.
Its usually rebound that's lacking on the S series rear but its a trade off because on a single adjustable shock Gaz can only cut down on bump by so much and they hop all over the road if they are over compressed.
bugsy said:
Bugsy,
Has this changed a bit? I thought 400lb front and 300lb rear was the best combination?
PS. Mine is much better with the rear dampner adjusted up a few more clicks.
No, 325lb rear is the norm rate following testing but you can dial up other spring rates as long as you don't over compress the dampers.
Its usually rebound that's lacking on the S series rear but its a trade off because on a single adjustable shock Gaz can only cut down on bump by so much and they hop all over the road if they are over compressed.
Surely that depends on what S you have .. the S1 has low front pivots on the trailing arms that promotes squat .. on these cars more compression or higher spring rates are preferable. on later cars the forward pivots are raised giving some anti-squat, so you can get away with less compression and spring rate but whether you want to is down to testing.
trackcar said:
Bugsy,
Has this changed a bit? I thought 400lb front and 300lb rear was the best combination?
PS. Mine is much better with the rear dampner adjusted up a few more clicks.
No, 325lb rear is the norm rate following testing but you can dial up other spring rates as long as you don't over compress the dampers.
Its usually rebound that's lacking on the S series rear but its a trade off because on a single adjustable shock Gaz can only cut down on bump by so much and they hop all over the road if they are over compressed.
Surely that depends on what S you have .. the S1 has low front pivots on the trailing arms that promotes squat .. on these cars more compression or higher spring rates are preferable. on later cars the forward pivots are raised giving some anti-squat, so you can get away with less compression and spring rate but whether you want to is down to testing.
I absolutely agree Jools but in all cases here we are talking S2/3, unless I have not checked properly.
On the S1 the standard valving would appear be better as you suggest, it would appear from my testing that the S2/3 needs an additional small bleed valve to limit the compression thus allowing a higher rebound to bump ratio and this works extremely well on the Chim/Griffs as well, its only when you go onto Cerbera/Tuscans that we have to increase the compression again.
Podie said:
Trackcar - you're car looked to be a lot stiffer than that at Snetterton..! (daren't think what you're running )
>> Edited by Podie on Wednesday 21st September 18:22
I would think Jools was running Nitrons and somwhere around 600/400 springs on semi slicks (well they semed very sticky when I touched them)
Come on Jools, come clean for the boys.
It's well documented what I run at the moment .. bespoke single adjust nitrons with a lot of low speed compression on the front 'cos i'm a wuss on turn-in.
I have a nominal b:r ratio of 1:8 on the full stiff that i use on track at the front and 1:6 on the rear, tho the rear runs much less low speed compression than the front aswell.
the spring rates are 650f 450r but this isn't enough. i had thought the camber loss on roll was bush squidge after something PeterH mentioned to me, but fitting red superflex has done nothing to cure this.
i need to address the roll issue which is still compromising corner speed, static 3.5 deg camber negative still heating the outer edges even on slight front toe out. I have an understeer issue i haven't managed to sort in two years! I now think the chassis is twisting and limiting the load transfer across the rear so limiting the handling trim i can dial in on the rear springs..
i run dunlop formula r in D01 spec.
ooo n jon cleland was at mallory today
I have a nominal b:r ratio of 1:8 on the full stiff that i use on track at the front and 1:6 on the rear, tho the rear runs much less low speed compression than the front aswell.
the spring rates are 650f 450r but this isn't enough. i had thought the camber loss on roll was bush squidge after something PeterH mentioned to me, but fitting red superflex has done nothing to cure this.
i need to address the roll issue which is still compromising corner speed, static 3.5 deg camber negative still heating the outer edges even on slight front toe out. I have an understeer issue i haven't managed to sort in two years! I now think the chassis is twisting and limiting the load transfer across the rear so limiting the handling trim i can dial in on the rear springs..
i run dunlop formula r in D01 spec.
ooo n jon cleland was at mallory today
. Actually, technical but interesting, particularly the B/R ratios when you run road cars on about 2.5/ 3 to 1 on normal springs.
It just shows how far removed track setups are from what we run on the roads.
Its a good job we are going for double adjustables on the Chim next year.
Talking about flexing, I see what you mean Joo,especially when roof panels spring off.
>> Edited by bugsy on Thursday 22 September 00:02
It just shows how far removed track setups are from what we run on the roads.
Its a good job we are going for double adjustables on the Chim next year.
Talking about flexing, I see what you mean Joo,especially when roof panels spring off.
>> Edited by bugsy on Thursday 22 September 00:02
bugsy said:
Actually, technical but interesting, particularly the B/R ratios when you run road cars on about 2.5/ 3 to 1 on normal springs.
It just shows how far removed track setups are from what we run on the roads.
Its a good job we are going for double adjustables on the Chim next year.
Talking about flexing, I see what you mean Joo,especially when roof panels spring off.
>> Edited by bugsy on Thursday 22 September 00:02
I'll hopefully have my double adjust protechs on displat at cream
one of 5 protech dampers i now do after another day on the dyno I know the chassis is weak cos with the roof off the doors don't close
I'll build a full cage over winter and strengthen he rest of the chassis too. gotta cope with the turbo after all.bugsy said:
Actually, technical but interesting, particularly the B/R ratios when you run road cars on about 2.5/ 3 to 1 on normal springs.
It just shows how far removed track setups are from what we run on the roads.
Its a good job we are going for double adjustables on the Chim next year.
Talking about flexing, I see what you mean Joo,especially when roof panels spring off.
>> Edited by bugsy on Thursday 22 September 00:02
I can't tell you how we do it, but on one of the track use dampers I'm having built you get a variable b:r ratio from 1:2 to 1:6 i hope it's going to be a big seller.
Got to see the innards of plenty of gaz dampers whilst i was there too bugsy
oo n some rather lovely jrz dampers like shorty used to use on the cerbie sp6 race car. beautifully made but 300 pounds per damper so not cheap Jolly good Joo, hope you enjoyed the look but why you bothered I don't know, I would have thought that a twin tube shock with gas bag would have held no secrets or interest to you.
BTW, just realised I never answered your query about why I was poo pooing gas charged shocks but apparantly expressing interest in Ohlins, I was talking about a range of shocks that had a great deal of PR recently and are imulsified oil, which I'm sure you would agree can cause cavitation when worked hard.
I was not refering to shocks built on the de-Carbon principle like my Ohlins range I will be demonstrating at Cream, nor Nitron.
BTW, just realised I never answered your query about why I was poo pooing gas charged shocks but apparantly expressing interest in Ohlins, I was talking about a range of shocks that had a great deal of PR recently and are imulsified oil, which I'm sure you would agree can cause cavitation when worked hard.
I was not refering to shocks built on the de-Carbon principle like my Ohlins range I will be demonstrating at Cream, nor Nitron.
Pies said:
.....gotta cope with the turbo after all.
single, std engine, light pressure .. just a much more cost effective way of doing it all that the trad tuning routes. I've been given a turbo, can do the exhausts myself, learnt a lot from our twin turbo race car. i'd be happy with 250hp for about 500 pounds.
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