7am knock on the door, before bashing it in. No warrant
7am knock on the door, before bashing it in. No warrant
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anyoldcardave

Original Poster:

851 posts

84 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Any Plod or legal types around ?

This morning my step son got a knock on the door, got up to answer it, and bang, the door went through and 9 coppers steamed in.

He said WTF, they said they heard movement after knoccking on the door, as you would if someone got up to answer it.

Searched the house, made him open his safe, through the drawers, the lot, then asked him who he was and for ID to prove it.

They had no clue who was living there, he has for just over a year, gave a name of a person they were looking for and if he knew him, everyone does, so they can avoid the drunken theiving idiot, but not pals and he has not even seen him around the area for over 2 years.

The only paperwork left was a scrap of paper with a coppers name and number, and some form about getting the door fixed.

NO SEARCH WARRANT. Neither was he shown one, and off they fked as quick as they arrived.

Is this legal ?

Peterpetrole

858 posts

14 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Made him open his safe? On pain of what?

Reading between the lines has he associated with a scumbag in the past?


Shaw Tarse

31,817 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
anyoldcardave said:
Any Plod or legal types around ?

This morning my step son got a knock on the door, got up to answer it, and bang, the door went through and 9 coppers steamed in.

He said WTF, they said they heard movement after knoccking on the door, as you would if someone got up to answer it.

Searched the house, made him open his safe, through the drawers, the lot, then asked him who he was and for ID to prove it.

They had no clue who was living there, he has for just over a year, gave a name of a person they were looking for and if he knew him, everyone does, so they can avoid the drunken theiving idiot, but not pals and he has not even seen him around the area for over 2 years.

The only paperwork left was a scrap of paper with a coppers name and number, and some form about getting the door fixed.

NO SEARCH WARRANT. Neither was he shown one, and off they fked as quick as they arrived.

Is this legal ?
I'm guessing we are not getting full details?

Greendubber

14,459 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
What were they searching the house for, the bloke they were after?

It could have been legal under Sec 17 of PACE if the chap they were after is wanted, he's linked to the address and they had grounds to suspect he was in there.

Unless there was a warrant I'm not sure what power they were using to ask for the safe to be opened unless it's big enough to contain a person.

anyoldcardave

Original Poster:

851 posts

84 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Peterpetrole said:
Made him open his safe? On pain of what?

Reading between the lines has he associated with a scumbag in the past?
I have no idea why they wanted the safe open, was not there,

No, does not even have a phone number for him.

As I said, they did not have a clue who lived there, asked who he was and for him to prove it. Surely they should know who is registered at an address they are going to raid, and have a warrant to do so ?

The scumbag has not ever been registered as living there, so not an error on dates.

Peterpetrole

858 posts

14 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
anyoldcardave said:
Peterpetrole said:
Made him open his safe? On pain of what?

Reading between the lines has he associated with a scumbag in the past?
I have no idea why they wanted the safe open, was not there,

No, does not even have a phone number for him.

As I said, they did not have a clue who lived there, asked who he was and for him to prove it. Surely they should know who is registered at an address they are going to raid, and have a warrant to do so ?

The scumbag has not ever been registered as living there, so not an error on dates.
Yes, but you said "everyone knows his name, drunken, thieving idiot" so he is known to you and him?

Not that surprising the police would come looking? Compared to say bashing my door down instead?

Greendubber

14,459 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Did they actually force entry or did he open the door?

There are many systems available to the police to check who may live at an address but they are not always accurate. To assume the police know who lives or is inside every address is unrealistic I'm afraid.

paulrockliffe

16,217 posts

244 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
Did they actually force entry or did he open the door?
The OP seems to have covered this in a fairly easy to understand way - did you read all the post?

thisnameistaken

242 posts

45 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
What were they searching the house for, the bloke they were after?

It could have been legal under Sec 17 of PACE if the chap they were after is wanted, he's linked to the address and they had grounds to suspect he was in there.

Unless there was a warrant I'm not sure what power they were using to ask for the safe to be opened unless it's big enough to contain a person.
A constable must have grounds to believe the person is in the property to enter to arrest them under s17(2) PACE. The mental element changes from believe to suspect when a constable enters to save life and limb or prevent serious damage under s17, everything else is believe.

Greendubber

14,459 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Greendubber said:
Did they actually force entry or did he open the door?
The OP seems to have covered this in a fairly easy to understand way - did you read all the post?
Yes thank you I did.

OP states 'He got up to answer it' and the door went in. Did they push it open as he opened it and enter did they kick it off the hinges before he got to it and come in.

Details matter, hence why I asked rolleyes

interstellar

4,390 posts

163 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
He also mentioned they left details about how to get the door fixed so I doubt he opened it nor do I doubt they just felt he needed an upgrade!

Greendubber

14,459 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Any internal doors damaged etc?

Aluminati

2,948 posts

75 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Has he been posting hurty words on the internet and kept his laptop in the safe ?…

rambo19

2,889 posts

154 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
More to this me thinks.....

soad

34,056 posts

193 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Mistaken identity? Basically they’re looking for drugs, cocaine etc locked up in a safe. Rental properties treated as safe houses for the local criminal gangs.

Very common.

Greendubber

14,459 posts

220 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
soad said:
Mistaken identity? Basically they’re looking for drugs, cocaine etc locked up in a safe. Rental properties treated as safe houses for the local criminal gangs.

Very common.
Which would require a warrant to enter the premises.

Mr.Chips

1,157 posts

231 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
If the time taken between knocking and getting up to open the door is too long, the police will use the big red key to smash the door in to prevent evidence being disposed of. If they have reasonable suspicion that the person they are investigating has a link with the property, they will be interested in that property. If drugs are involved they have been known to check the connected sewers, just in case the drugs get flushed during the interval between knocking and gaining entry, hence the use of the big red key.

Oceanrower

1,179 posts

129 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Mr.Chips said:
If the time taken between knocking and getting up to open the door is too long, the police will use the big red key to smash the door in to prevent evidence being disposed of. If they have reasonable suspicion that the person they are investigating has a link with the property, they will be interested in that property. If drugs are involved they have been known to check the connected sewers, just in case the drugs get flushed during the interval between knocking and gaining entry, hence the use of the big red key.
Which would require a warrant to enter the property…

essayer

10,240 posts

211 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
Has the Naughty Boy ever been inside the property?

Blue62

9,862 posts

169 months

Thursday 29th August 2024
quotequote all
rambo19 said:
More to this me thinks.....
No smoke without fire you reckon? Of course, there could never be a situation where human error occurred, so let’s rule that out to start with. I have sympathy with the police and the bloke who had an early morning visit, let’s not judge too quickly.