RE: BMW confirms first fuel cell car for 2028
RE: BMW confirms first fuel cell car for 2028
Thursday 5th September 2024

BMW confirms first fuel cell car for 2028

Partnership with Toyota goes 'to the next level' as BMW bets on a future FCEV


In terms of sales volume, the past performance of fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) is not great. And that’s putting it mildly. The technology, primarily using compressed hydrogen, has been around in an automotive sense for decades and as (sort of) viable retail product from at least 2008. But with very limited infrastructure and questions of inefficiency when compared with pure battery-electric vehicles, FCEVs have not made much of a dent in the public consciousness - particularly in Europe, where the vast majority of EV investment has been directed at more conventional solutions. 

But that hasn’t prevented several major manufacturers from covering their bets. BMW has previously voiced reservations about fuel cells as it accelerated its presence in the fledgling EV market - but that did not prevent it from entering a partnership with Toyota (a long-standing investor in fuel cells) to further study the technology. The BMW iX5 Hydrogen, unveiled in 2019, was one outcome of that collaboration, and it entered a period of long-term fleet testing which the firm evidently deemed successful. Successful enough for BMW to announce that its first-ever series production FCEV will launch in 2028. 

To achieve this goal, the existing partnership with Toyota will be deepened with both firms pooling ‘their innovative strength and their technological capabilities to bring a new generation of fuel cell powertrain technology to the roads.’ Toyota suggested that they shared a ‘multi-pathway’ approach to carbon neutrality, and stressed the importance of a combined ‘passion for cars’. 

BMW boss Oliver Zipse went one step further: “This is a milestone in automotive history: the first-ever series production fuel cell vehicle to be offered by a global premium manufacturer. Powered by hydrogen and driven by the spirit of our cooperation, it will underscore how technological progress is shaping future mobility. And it will herald an era of significant demand for fuel cell electric vehicles.”

Given the lacklustre response to Toyota’s current fuel cell production model, the Mirai (reportedly the subject of an ongoing class action lawsuit in California over the alleged lack of refuelling facilities), the second point is surely more optimistic than the first. There is hardly any question of the partnership's core ability to create a third-generation powertrain, or locate the synergies that would benefit ‘their distinct brand identities and characteristics’ - the issue is generating sufficient customer interest to sustain mass production. 

Hence the four-year run-up to incorporating such a car into BMW’s existing portfolio (where, the firm stresses, it will sit alongside BEVs and PHEVs and ICE products) and an ongoing emphasis on the importance of establishing a ‘pathway to realizing the full potential of hydrogen mobility’. Which very much includes supporting any firm that is committed to ‘building low-carbon hydrogen production, distribution, and refuelling facilities’ and encouraging national governments to do a better job of laying the framework that might lead to the economic viability of fuel cells more generally. In other words, and as we’ve become accustomed to saying, watch this space. 


Author
Discussion

Firebobby

Original Poster:

991 posts

68 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Looks like any other X5. The problem for me is the 200 mile round trip to my nearest filling station!!!

NDNDNDND

2,546 posts

212 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Y'know, I could have sworn there was a popcorn smiley on here somewhere....

Dashnine

1,706 posts

79 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Firebobby said:
Looks like any other X5.
You think that's going to be the same car on sale in 2028, and not perhaps a development prototype?

Edited by Dashnine on Thursday 5th September 13:48

Fast and Spurious

1,802 posts

117 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Somebody turn GT9 on, it needs to tell BMW and Toyota that they have it all wrong....again.

Fast and Spurious

1,802 posts

117 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Brilliant, bring it on! Let's have more choice for low emission vehicles. Well done BMW and Toyota.

Piston Ted

299 posts

89 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Fast and Spurious said:
Somebody turn GT9 on, it needs to tell BMW and Toyota that they have it all wrong....again.
Brilliant! Don’t forget his chum ‘Nom de plumme head’

Andy86GT

1,150 posts

94 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
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Just saying...

Gastons_Revenge

463 posts

33 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
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Dead technology. H2 refuelling stations have been shutting even in the FCEV 'capitals' of the world like California.

borat52

585 posts

237 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Andy86GT said:


Just saying...
I'd argue that those figures are slightly skewed in favour of BEV but yes the general gist is correct that hydrogen fuel cell losses are higher.

In favour of the fuel cell is that you can make hydrogen only when there's excess energy in the grid and store it (you can make that argument for battery but if the wind doesn't blow for a significant time then you're charging from fossil fuels) AND it does away with a requirement for the majority of battery.

It also gives huge flexibility with respect to the fact that you could burn it in a power station to supplement the grid when you have excess demand and a lack of renewable generation.

It may well be that the flexibility it offers means that in the long run it becomes a prolific technology.

We're very definitely going to have too much renewables at certain times and not enough at others.

Of course that could still mean hydrogen and not fuel cell cars but I wouldn't bet against anything at the moment.

SDK

3,468 posts

282 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
No doubt hydrogen vehicles will be an option into the future.

But they have so many more downsides than most people realise. The main one being the cost of hydrogen - It makes public charging an EV look value for money, and that's if you can find a fueling station.

I'll be sticking with my EV - charging on my drive overnight at 7p KWh, or using my home solar smile

Nomme de Plum

7,050 posts

45 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Fast and Spurious said:
Brilliant, bring it on! Let's have more choice for low emission vehicles. Well done BMW and Toyota.
Let's see how many sell.

I can't say i fancy the idea of sitting on a potential bomb but I suppose the chance of catastrophe is extremely small. How long before sufficient infrastructure is in place though? EV has a massive head start.

Leon R

3,863 posts

125 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
To be fair everything I have read suggests that hydrogen as a fuel source is pretty much DOA.

But then why are the multi national billion pound profit driven companies investing into it.

Nomme de Plum

7,050 posts

45 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
SDK said:
No doubt hydrogen vehicles will be an option into the future.

But they have so many more downsides than most people realise. The main one being the cost of hydrogen - It makes public charging an EV look value for money, and that's if you can find a fueling station.

I'll be sticking with my EV - charging on my drive overnight at 7p KWh, or using my home solar smile
Yep. I like my 2.5-3p per mile energy cost. Won't be giving that up anytime soon. Or the instant rapid acceleration and tranquility.

Nomme de Plum

7,050 posts

45 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Leon R said:
To be fair everything I have read suggests that hydrogen as a fuel source is pretty much DOA.

But then why are the multi national billion pound profit driven companies investing into it.
Toyota are well behind with EV development so it makes sense for them to share their Fuel cell technology with a relative successful EV manufacturer, one assumes in return for some EV technology.

I'm pretty sure there are grants available for alternative clean fuel options also it's not unwise for BMW to hedge their best a little.

Fastlane

1,349 posts

246 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Fast and Spurious said:
Brilliant, bring it on! Let's have more choice for low emission vehicles. Well done BMW and Toyota.
I take it you'll be buying one then? I suspect not, nor will anyone else as they make no commercial sense, apart from hoovering up grant money.

dxg

10,730 posts

289 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Does it use blue or green hydrogen?

Amanitin

542 posts

166 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
without miraculous breakthroughs in liquid hydrogen production and storage, hydrogen as a fuel will be limited to rockets

nismo48

7,017 posts

236 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
Fast and Spurious said:
Brilliant, bring it on! Let's have more choice for low emission vehicles. Well done BMW and Toyota.
+1 smile

LuS1fer

43,505 posts

274 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
"....stressed the importance of a combined ‘passion for cars’. ..."

I see no evidence of this other than a terrible record of churning out badly styled cars and wagons. Passion for profit, maybe.

Andy86GT

1,150 posts

94 months

Thursday 5th September 2024
quotequote all
borat52 said:
Andy86GT said:


Just saying...
I'd argue that those figures are slightly skewed in favour of BEV but yes the general gist is correct that hydrogen fuel cell losses are higher.

In favour of the fuel cell is that you can make hydrogen only when there's excess energy in the grid and store it (you can make that argument for battery but if the wind doesn't blow for a significant time then you're charging from fossil fuels) AND it does away with a requirement for the majority of battery.

It also gives huge flexibility with respect to the fact that you could burn it in a power station to supplement the grid when you have excess demand and a lack of renewable generation.

It may well be that the flexibility it offers means that in the long run it becomes a prolific technology.

We're very definitely going to have too much renewables at certain times and not enough at others.

Of course that could still mean hydrogen and not fuel cell cars but I wouldn't bet against anything at the moment.
Good points well presented. I've no preference either way ... well apart from driving a part time EV ( PHEV).
Another hydrogen benefit is transportation, we here that the grid will need updating to cope, hydrogen can be made at the source of the energy generation.