Discussion
Not sure which section to put this in but here goes...
I started learning Italian on Duolingo a while back, nearly on 150 days now. Initially started partly because it seemed a better use of time than doomscrolling through news and social media and also because I quite like hearing Italian and have an interest in Italy. Now it's gotten to be a habit, the whole family are on Duolingo (albeit all picked different languages!) and everyone is obsessed with their "streaks" and progress.
The thing I'm finding is, I feel like DL's teaching methodology is to just let you fail and learn parrot-fashion. Stuff like verb conjugation, gender of nouns/verbs/adjectives etc. is never explained, it just introduces new words and you learn by your mistakes. This was sort of fine whilst I was just beginning but it's getting confusing and frustrating now. I feel like I can read Italian reasonably well (within the confines of my limited vocabulary) but I'm not really feeling any closer to being able to actually speak it.
Obviously the best way to learn would be to immerse one's self by going there but my attempts to convince the family to emigrate there have yet to be successful. Has anyone else found any sort of companion course, websites, groups, methods etc. to support what they've learned via Duolingo?
I started learning Italian on Duolingo a while back, nearly on 150 days now. Initially started partly because it seemed a better use of time than doomscrolling through news and social media and also because I quite like hearing Italian and have an interest in Italy. Now it's gotten to be a habit, the whole family are on Duolingo (albeit all picked different languages!) and everyone is obsessed with their "streaks" and progress.
The thing I'm finding is, I feel like DL's teaching methodology is to just let you fail and learn parrot-fashion. Stuff like verb conjugation, gender of nouns/verbs/adjectives etc. is never explained, it just introduces new words and you learn by your mistakes. This was sort of fine whilst I was just beginning but it's getting confusing and frustrating now. I feel like I can read Italian reasonably well (within the confines of my limited vocabulary) but I'm not really feeling any closer to being able to actually speak it.
Obviously the best way to learn would be to immerse one's self by going there but my attempts to convince the family to emigrate there have yet to be successful. Has anyone else found any sort of companion course, websites, groups, methods etc. to support what they've learned via Duolingo?
I have been finding exactly the same with French to be honest.
I did have a look for a local French beginners course at the local adult education centre, but they only have conversational French, which I think will be way over my head at the current moment. I'll watch this with some interest, as I want to get back into French - the 6 year break we took between visits really reduced my proficiency and my confidence with the language even more.
I did have a look for a local French beginners course at the local adult education centre, but they only have conversational French, which I think will be way over my head at the current moment. I'll watch this with some interest, as I want to get back into French - the 6 year break we took between visits really reduced my proficiency and my confidence with the language even more.
I had the same issue. I was learning German and got to the dative definitive and it blew my mind.
Try Lingoda, they do a sprint which means signing up for so many lessons in a period. if you do it, you get some/all your money back. It's not cheap mind.
https://www.lingoda.com/en/sprint/
Try Lingoda, they do a sprint which means signing up for so many lessons in a period. if you do it, you get some/all your money back. It's not cheap mind.
https://www.lingoda.com/en/sprint/
Puedo hablar español.... Mal, muy mal.
Something like Duolingo can teach you vocabulary but can't instruct you on the actual use of the language. More over it can't tell if you've completely misunderstood the concept and correct you.
Doubly so for the bits that are technically correct but not what everyone uses (I..E nos and vos in Spanish).
Something like Duolingo can teach you vocabulary but can't instruct you on the actual use of the language. More over it can't tell if you've completely misunderstood the concept and correct you.
Doubly so for the bits that are technically correct but not what everyone uses (I..E nos and vos in Spanish).
I've been loosely learning Italian for 2-3 years. I've got about 390 day street on Duolingo. LIke the OP, I love the italian language and have a romantic dream and idea of living there (thanks to my Irish passport). I sometimes listen to Italian radio or TV on YouTube as well.
I feel it has tought me a lot but you're right speaking is a whole other skill. I did find I was able to start the conversation - even if it was in a slightly weird way and they responded in English.
Anyone who spoke back in Italian often confused me unless it was a one word confirmation of some kind
Everytime I've been to Italy, I'm amazed at how much I learn. As simple as looking up a word on a bus, and then starting to use it. Or like when I was in a restaurant and wanted to tell the waitor I wasn't well so wasn't ordering food - just my GF. I found I looked up the word for "sick" and still remember it.
Someone on here recently posted a similar thread. They mentioned Preply and others have used it - which is language tutors which all deliver it by video lessons. The prices look really good actually.
I also was interested in a one week course in Italy. These are often where you spend 4 hours in the lesson, then as a group go out somewhere. That sounds effective as you're absorbed all week in the language and all learning together
I feel it has tought me a lot but you're right speaking is a whole other skill. I did find I was able to start the conversation - even if it was in a slightly weird way and they responded in English.
Anyone who spoke back in Italian often confused me unless it was a one word confirmation of some kind
Everytime I've been to Italy, I'm amazed at how much I learn. As simple as looking up a word on a bus, and then starting to use it. Or like when I was in a restaurant and wanted to tell the waitor I wasn't well so wasn't ordering food - just my GF. I found I looked up the word for "sick" and still remember it.
Someone on here recently posted a similar thread. They mentioned Preply and others have used it - which is language tutors which all deliver it by video lessons. The prices look really good actually.
I also was interested in a one week course in Italy. These are often where you spend 4 hours in the lesson, then as a group go out somewhere. That sounds effective as you're absorbed all week in the language and all learning together
I was learning Brazilian Portuguese (for work) via duo lingo, didn't really get on with it. Then work paid for an actual Brazil based tutor, we met weekly via teams for several months and it was a world of difference. Might be worth you trying to find a local or teams based tutor - ours was in groups which was even better.
I've started using it to learn Dutch ahead of a trip to Bruges this winter. I don't expect to be even slightly fluent by the time we go but I feel that it helps to at least be familiar with the feel of the language and I might be able to use the odd phrase whilst there.
Duolingo has a very odd structure to how it teaches language (I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20) but in many ways teaches language in the way you learn it as an infant by introducing random new words over time and relying on trial and error to learn over time.
A dedicated language course is undoubtedly going to be much better but it has to be a more productive use of time that would otherwise be spent scrolling through social media.
Duolingo has a very odd structure to how it teaches language (I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20) but in many ways teaches language in the way you learn it as an infant by introducing random new words over time and relying on trial and error to learn over time.
A dedicated language course is undoubtedly going to be much better but it has to be a more productive use of time that would otherwise be spent scrolling through social media.
I had the same problems with Duolingo, and never felt like I was getting anywhere with it. Just before a trip to France I discovered the "Coffee Break" series of podcasts, the idea being they're relatively short so you can fit them into a coffee break. The setup is the teacher and a student, and then you're a second student. I found they taught me much more useful stuff and I actually used a lot of what I learnt when I was in France. They offer free podcasts as well as paid online courses in various languages. I just did the free podcasts through the Apple Podcasts app and I found them good enough so haven't explored the paid courses they offer.
Rebew said:
I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20
Reminds of a tweet I saw a while back where someone said:"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"
redrabbit29 said:
Rebew said:
I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20
Reminds of a tweet I saw a while back where someone said:"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"
borcy said:
redrabbit29 said:
Rebew said:
I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20
Reminds of a tweet I saw a while back where someone said:"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"
It does work in some ways as looking at Italian verbs, I have become more used to have different verbs change depending on the subject
I know it's not the most effective option
I'm 1080 days into DL Spanish. It's actually been pretty good for me. Basic stuff I'm now fine with, hotel check in, out and about, food ordering and shopping. Can have a pretty decent basic conversation. I won't be negotiating any nuclear non proliferation agreements any time soon but I can live with that.
redrabbit29 said:
borcy said:
redrabbit29 said:
Rebew said:
I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20
Reminds of a tweet I saw a while back where someone said:"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"
It does work in some ways as looking at Italian verbs, I have become more used to have different verbs change depending on the subject
I know it's not the most effective option
I'm in the same boat but with Welsh.
Living in Wales I've lots of exposure, but knowledge of grammar, especially verbs/tenses and mutations which also requires the word gender.
I've recently started on line group lessons, bought a grammar book that I get along with and a GCSE book.
That combination had really helped, the dulingo being a good base upon which to learn. Especially with getting your 'ear in'.
The other aspect is slow down with the dulingo, take notes and speak it out loud Makes a massive diference.
Pob lwc!
Living in Wales I've lots of exposure, but knowledge of grammar, especially verbs/tenses and mutations which also requires the word gender.
I've recently started on line group lessons, bought a grammar book that I get along with and a GCSE book.
That combination had really helped, the dulingo being a good base upon which to learn. Especially with getting your 'ear in'.
The other aspect is slow down with the dulingo, take notes and speak it out loud Makes a massive diference.
Pob lwc!
You really need to be there - you learn not only the proper use of the language, but also the nuances, and what is REALLY used, as opposed to what's in books.
I lived in Italy and used Rosetta Stone to start with and it gave me a huge boost - you learn fairly quickly the basics like I / They / Him / Her etc and the correct conjugations just through repatition and imagery. You very quickly instinctively know that "noi abbiamo" means "we have" for example, without knowing the full verb table (like "Voi avette" is not exactly vital in conversation) - then when you gain some confidence you can look up verb tables and practice them - this is what I did at night school in Italy. Rosetta stone was a brilliant leg up, then night school made a huge difference.
But chatting one on one over that makes a massive difference. I very quickly learnt from my friends that you can ignore many columns in verb tables if all you want is to be conversational - perfect past, present, and future, for example - that's plenty to be getting on with.
I can get most message across, and understand a lot I hear, but, only one on one. in a group I quickly get overwhelmed. That needs lot more practice and immersion.
Brilliant language to learn btw - if you can say it you can write/read it - with a few exceptions. Because I learnt over there, I speak in an Italian accent, which they often find hillarious :-)
I lived in Italy and used Rosetta Stone to start with and it gave me a huge boost - you learn fairly quickly the basics like I / They / Him / Her etc and the correct conjugations just through repatition and imagery. You very quickly instinctively know that "noi abbiamo" means "we have" for example, without knowing the full verb table (like "Voi avette" is not exactly vital in conversation) - then when you gain some confidence you can look up verb tables and practice them - this is what I did at night school in Italy. Rosetta stone was a brilliant leg up, then night school made a huge difference.
But chatting one on one over that makes a massive difference. I very quickly learnt from my friends that you can ignore many columns in verb tables if all you want is to be conversational - perfect past, present, and future, for example - that's plenty to be getting on with.
I can get most message across, and understand a lot I hear, but, only one on one. in a group I quickly get overwhelmed. That needs lot more practice and immersion.
Brilliant language to learn btw - if you can say it you can write/read it - with a few exceptions. Because I learnt over there, I speak in an Italian accent, which they often find hillarious :-)
I'm a few days off a 1000 streak on Duolingo Spanish.
I'm finding that I can use sentences in different ways to answer and it will understand that I've tried it in a different yet correct way.
Apart from a 1.5 hour lesson a week for 10 weeks nearly 3 years ago, Duo has been my only teacher and helped enormously on a 5 week stay in the North of Tenerife in a town where no one spoke English yet still wanted to chat to the foreigner.
I'm far far better at texting/reading Spanish though, despite listening to Spanish radio, watching favourite films in Spanish.
'Vete al helicóptero' doesn't sound as good as 'Get to da Chopper'
I returned to Tenerife for 3 weeks in June but made the mistake of inviting a friend who is fluent so I felt too self conscious to speak in front of her.
I need to do another solo trip.
Back to the classes.
I had been on Duolingo for a few months when I first went so had a tiny bit of knowledge. Problem was that the class went at the speed of the slowest learner, which was really frustrating.
I'm finding that I can use sentences in different ways to answer and it will understand that I've tried it in a different yet correct way.
Apart from a 1.5 hour lesson a week for 10 weeks nearly 3 years ago, Duo has been my only teacher and helped enormously on a 5 week stay in the North of Tenerife in a town where no one spoke English yet still wanted to chat to the foreigner.
I'm far far better at texting/reading Spanish though, despite listening to Spanish radio, watching favourite films in Spanish.
'Vete al helicóptero' doesn't sound as good as 'Get to da Chopper'
I returned to Tenerife for 3 weeks in June but made the mistake of inviting a friend who is fluent so I felt too self conscious to speak in front of her.
I need to do another solo trip.
Back to the classes.
I had been on Duolingo for a few months when I first went so had a tiny bit of knowledge. Problem was that the class went at the speed of the slowest learner, which was really frustrating.
Wow, great thread - comforting to know it's not just me!
"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"Iirc the duolingo blog covers why they choose seemingly random sentences, i think it helps you learn sentence construct better.So that logic I can sort of see, but a little explanation as to what you're supposed to pay attention to might be useful. The lack of just makes me wonder if there really is a ghost in the sugar in italy. So far it's probably not been pitched badly for someone who may want to visit the country - units on asking for directions, ordering food and drink, checking into a hotel etc. but within that it just feels like it throws stuff at you and you have to work it out for yourself. If an actual, human language teacher taught like that I would have stopped using them and looked for someone else some time ago!
borcy said:
redrabbit29 said:
Rebew said:
I know how to say that the Elephant does not eat Bananas but not how to count to 20
Reminds of a tweet I saw a while back where someone said:"Duolingo should have an option of 'I am going on holiday here soon' and instead of learning 'the pigeon eats cheese on the sofa' it should teach you 'one beer please' and other useful phrases"
Griffith4ever said:
You really need to be there - you learn not only the proper use of the language, but also the nuances, and what is REALLY used, as opposed to what's in books.
I lived in Italy and used Rosetta Stone to start with and it gave me a huge boost - you learn fairly quickly the basics like I / They / Him / Her etc and the correct conjugations just through repatition and imagery. You very quickly instinctively know that "noi abbiamo" means "we have" for example, without knowing the full verb table (like "Voi avette" is not exactly vital in conversation) - then when you gain some confidence you can look up verb tables and practice them - this is what I did at night school in Italy. Rosetta stone was a brilliant leg up, then night school made a huge difference.
But chatting one on one over that makes a massive difference. I very quickly learnt from my friends that you can ignore many columns in verb tables if all you want is to be conversational - perfect past, present, and future, for example - that's plenty to be getting on with.
I can get most message across, and understand a lot I hear, but, only one on one. in a group I quickly get overwhelmed. That needs lot more practice and immersion.
Brilliant language to learn btw - if you can say it you can write/read it - with a few exceptions. Because I learnt over there, I speak in an Italian accent, which they often find hillarious :-)
I'm jealous of your experiences!I lived in Italy and used Rosetta Stone to start with and it gave me a huge boost - you learn fairly quickly the basics like I / They / Him / Her etc and the correct conjugations just through repatition and imagery. You very quickly instinctively know that "noi abbiamo" means "we have" for example, without knowing the full verb table (like "Voi avette" is not exactly vital in conversation) - then when you gain some confidence you can look up verb tables and practice them - this is what I did at night school in Italy. Rosetta stone was a brilliant leg up, then night school made a huge difference.
But chatting one on one over that makes a massive difference. I very quickly learnt from my friends that you can ignore many columns in verb tables if all you want is to be conversational - perfect past, present, and future, for example - that's plenty to be getting on with.
I can get most message across, and understand a lot I hear, but, only one on one. in a group I quickly get overwhelmed. That needs lot more practice and immersion.
Brilliant language to learn btw - if you can say it you can write/read it - with a few exceptions. Because I learnt over there, I speak in an Italian accent, which they often find hillarious :-)
How did you come to live in Italy?
Where did you live - in terms of area but also was it an apartment or something?
Do you still use it at all (you say you "lived in Italy" so presuming you moved away)?
I've spent an hour or two looking at places in Italy to buy. Just dreaming really but I'd love to do it.
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