Trains, the Green option £££££££s
Discussion
I have a few days off so I am thinking of visiting family in Holland.
Train is around £450 to £550 return
That's Euston to Rotterdam so not including local travel to get to Euston or my onward journey from Rotterdam, probably another £20 on trains/trams.
I can fly from London City to Rotterdam, very convenient for only £240 return or, as I might find the roadtrip quite enjoyable and having a car whilst I'm there would be useful, plus I can bring loads of goodies back, there's either a Ferry or the Shuttle to France.
£150 or £200, then 2 tanks of fuel so add £120.
Hardly encouraging one to take the Green option.
Why are trains so fugging expensive?
ETA, this is just for me thus imagine the savings if I were to drive with friends/family.
Train is around £450 to £550 return
That's Euston to Rotterdam so not including local travel to get to Euston or my onward journey from Rotterdam, probably another £20 on trains/trams.
I can fly from London City to Rotterdam, very convenient for only £240 return or, as I might find the roadtrip quite enjoyable and having a car whilst I'm there would be useful, plus I can bring loads of goodies back, there's either a Ferry or the Shuttle to France.
£150 or £200, then 2 tanks of fuel so add £120.
Hardly encouraging one to take the Green option.
Why are trains so fugging expensive?
ETA, this is just for me thus imagine the savings if I were to drive with friends/family.
Edited by croyde on Saturday 5th October 09:38
croyde said:
Why are trains so fugging expensive?
Massive, inherent inefficiency. Same as the buses. You simply cannot cater for the needs of 70 million people with fixed route, fixed timetable services without a massive amount of waste. And everyone accepting impractically slow journey times.I'm not even sure they are that "Green". I suspect that's a bit of a "wash"
They're only green and efficient once you've got 60 acres of central London for a station, cut, tunneled and graded a smooth line down to Folkestone, tunneled under the English got France, Belgium and Holland to cut, tunnel and grade their side, laid rails along the whole lot and then added in all the signals, points, junctions etc to make it all work on time. Then you need to build a load of big trains and hire lots of people to make it run on time.
Trains are only possibly efficient in the loony upside down world of the climate change enthusiast. That's why they need massive subsidies to even keep going.
Trains are only possibly efficient in the loony upside down world of the climate change enthusiast. That's why they need massive subsidies to even keep going.
Jader1973 said:
Eurostar from St Pancras to Rotterdam is 255 Euros so about £215.
That’s travelling out on the 12th of October and back on the 19th.
Where are you getting £500 from?
Not the prices I was getting but I need to go this coming week for a couple of days. I was flexible.That’s travelling out on the 12th of October and back on the 19th.
Where are you getting £500 from?
It was over £250 just for the outbound.
I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hoek van Holland last night as it was only £160 for me and the car outbound, have to add £60 for compulsory cabin though, what happened to sleeping in the bar or the luggage storage like the good ol' days
Anyway, thought fek it! I'll take it so back online 10 minutes later and it's shot up to £200, thought it must be a mistake so reloaded, now £220
croyde said:
Jader1973 said:
Eurostar from St Pancras to Rotterdam is 255 Euros so about £215.
That’s travelling out on the 12th of October and back on the 19th.
Where are you getting £500 from?
Not the prices I was getting but I need to go this coming week for a couple of days. I was flexible.That’s travelling out on the 12th of October and back on the 19th.
Where are you getting £500 from?
It was over £250 just for the outbound.
I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hoek van Holland last night as it was only £160 for me and the car outbound, have to add £60 for compulsory cabin though, what happened to sleeping in the bar or the luggage storage like the good ol' days
Anyway, thought fek it! I'll take it so back online 10 minutes later and it's shot up to £200, thought it must be a mistake so reloaded, now £220
croyde said:
I have a few days off so I am thinking of visiting family in Holland.
Train is around £450 to £550 return
That's Euston to Rotterdam so not including local travel to get to Euston or my onward journey from Rotterdam, probably another £20 on trains/trams.
I suspect you're starting from the wrong station...Train is around £450 to £550 return
That's Euston to Rotterdam so not including local travel to get to Euston or my onward journey from Rotterdam, probably another £20 on trains/trams.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
They're only green and efficient once you've got 60 acres of central London for a station, cut, tunneled and graded a smooth line down to Folkestone, tunneled under the English got France, Belgium and Holland to cut, tunnel and grade their side, laid rails along the whole lot and then added in all the signals, points, junctions etc to make it all work on time. Then you need to build a load of big trains and hire lots of people to make it run on time.
Trains are only possibly efficient in the loony upside down world of the climate change enthusiast. That's why they need massive subsidies to even keep going.
As opposed to what other naturally “green and efficient” alternatives? Ferries? Moving at glacial speed and belching out fumes the entire way? Flying?! Or should we all swim?Trains are only possibly efficient in the loony upside down world of the climate change enthusiast. That's why they need massive subsidies to even keep going.
What’s the acreage of St Pancras International compared to Heathrow or Gatwick? Or the port of Dover? I think you’ll find the Chunnel does okay in this particular comparison!
grumbledoak said:
croyde said:
Why are trains so fugging expensive?
Massive, inherent inefficiency. Same as the buses. You simply cannot cater for the needs of 70 million people with fixed route, fixed timetable services without a massive amount of waste. And everyone accepting impractically slow journey times.I'm not even sure they are that "Green". I suspect that's a bit of a "wash"
croyde said:
I was thinking of getting the Harwich to Hoek van Holland last night as it was only £160 for me and the car outbound, have to add £60 for compulsory cabin though, what happened to sleeping in the bar or the luggage storage like the good ol' days
Best and likely most pleasant optionVaried and changing ticket prices are why I don’t bother.
When you need to take advice and follow special “hop three times then spin around and touch the floor” type rules to get the best price.
I’ve been wanting to go on a family trip to London a few times and each time I check speculatively the prices are all over. £700 one minute, £400 the next time I check. Seemingly random number generators at play in the background.
Then promotions.
Could you imagine going to a supermarket and paying more for milk on a busy Friday? Or even more if you don’t pre-order a week ahead.
But if you’re willing to take whatever is nearest the entrance it’s 10% off.
Sorry, the amount of train based trips away I’ve tried pricing up and I just give up after 5mins as I can’t get a grip of the cost.
When you need to take advice and follow special “hop three times then spin around and touch the floor” type rules to get the best price.
I’ve been wanting to go on a family trip to London a few times and each time I check speculatively the prices are all over. £700 one minute, £400 the next time I check. Seemingly random number generators at play in the background.
Then promotions.
Could you imagine going to a supermarket and paying more for milk on a busy Friday? Or even more if you don’t pre-order a week ahead.
But if you’re willing to take whatever is nearest the entrance it’s 10% off.
Sorry, the amount of train based trips away I’ve tried pricing up and I just give up after 5mins as I can’t get a grip of the cost.
ChocolateFrog said:
What form of mass transit do you think is more efficient than an electric train?
That's like asking "what's your favourite sexually transmitted disease?"All mass transit is horribly inefficient. We only have it because is suits those who can force us all to pay for it. And lie about the "social benefit" and "green credentials".
We should remove all the subsidies and see what remains. My guess would be only the commuter lines, within a week. The rest would be cars on roads. Probably petrol powered but that's subject to the same sort of political market interference.
Mr Whippy said:
Varied and changing ticket prices are why I don’t bother.
When you need to take advice and follow special “hop three times then spin around and touch the floor” type rules to get the best price.
I’ve been wanting to go on a family trip to London a few times and each time I check speculatively the prices are all over. £700 one minute, £400 the next time I check. Seemingly random number generators at play in the background.
Then promotions.
Could you imagine going to a supermarket and paying more for milk on a busy Friday? Or even more if you don’t pre-order a week ahead.
But if you’re willing to take whatever is nearest the entrance it’s 10% off.
Sorry, the amount of train based trips away I’ve tried pricing up and I just give up after 5mins as I can’t get a grip of the cost.
I'm with you there, it's wearisome and also just puts me off too.When you need to take advice and follow special “hop three times then spin around and touch the floor” type rules to get the best price.
I’ve been wanting to go on a family trip to London a few times and each time I check speculatively the prices are all over. £700 one minute, £400 the next time I check. Seemingly random number generators at play in the background.
Then promotions.
Could you imagine going to a supermarket and paying more for milk on a busy Friday? Or even more if you don’t pre-order a week ahead.
But if you’re willing to take whatever is nearest the entrance it’s 10% off.
Sorry, the amount of train based trips away I’ve tried pricing up and I just give up after 5mins as I can’t get a grip of the cost.
I wish it was still like it is in Asia (Well on Race around the World) where you just turn up and buy a ticket.
40 years ago I would think nothing about jumping on my motorbike or getting into my car with a load of friends and head to Europe on a whim. Turn up, buy a ticket and away you go.
I remember meeting some mates in a pub on a Sunday and we wondered what to do when it closed for the afternoon. Remember them days
I was driving so we all jumped in my Citroen CX and just headed to Dover. Once in Calais we headed up to Holland to surprise my mum.
Stayed the night with her then up early Monday as I had to be in work in Camden at 1pm. Just made it.
Modern life seems to have destroyed spontaneity.
And don't get me on having to set up accounts with however I want to get a ferry/tunnel crossing with, more stuff to fill in and more passwords to remember.
grumbledoak said:
ChocolateFrog said:
What form of mass transit do you think is more efficient than an electric train?
That's like asking "what's your favourite sexually transmitted disease?"All mass transit is horribly inefficient. We only have it because is suits those who can force us all to pay for it. And lie about the "social benefit" and "green credentials".
We should remove all the subsidies and see what remains. My guess would be only the commuter lines, within a week. The rest would be cars on roads. Probably petrol powered but that's subject to the same sort of political market interference.
Doesn't answer a very simply put question though.
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