House ownership split following one parents death
Discussion
Hi all,
Just looking for a bit advice and opinion on our situation, as I'd like to get some information before speaking to a solicitor if needed.
Recently mum had a brain aneurysm and 4 weeks later my dad passed away. Both Mid-late 60s, healthy beforehand and no signs of any health problems, so its all come out of the blue.
So without wanting to get into that too much, the situation now is that my parents own a house outright, standard joint ownership. My dad's will states everything is split 50/50 between me and mum.
The outlook for mum is looking along the lines of 24hr care, in a care home environment, due to the implications of her brain damage. I have financial lasting power of attorney for mum (luckily, as this is something they sorted a few years back after they saw the complications in having to deal with my grandparents affairs following dementia), so now I am trying to figure out what is going to be the best thing to do in order to fund her care in the future.
We are fortunate that mum has savings from their joint account, as well as inheritance from my grandparents recent passing, however this will only last so long with the likely £1200+ a week care costs. Therefore my current thoughts are that there is no immediate need to sell their house, so we should look at letting it out, in order to supplement her income.
So my question is, how much of this rental income is mums, and how much, if any is mine, based on the joint ownership of the house, and the 50/50 split in dads will? And the same for any capital raised from selling the house?
Thank you for any help in advance, and any thoughts from anyone who has been in a similar situation would be appreciated.
Just looking for a bit advice and opinion on our situation, as I'd like to get some information before speaking to a solicitor if needed.
Recently mum had a brain aneurysm and 4 weeks later my dad passed away. Both Mid-late 60s, healthy beforehand and no signs of any health problems, so its all come out of the blue.
So without wanting to get into that too much, the situation now is that my parents own a house outright, standard joint ownership. My dad's will states everything is split 50/50 between me and mum.
The outlook for mum is looking along the lines of 24hr care, in a care home environment, due to the implications of her brain damage. I have financial lasting power of attorney for mum (luckily, as this is something they sorted a few years back after they saw the complications in having to deal with my grandparents affairs following dementia), so now I am trying to figure out what is going to be the best thing to do in order to fund her care in the future.
We are fortunate that mum has savings from their joint account, as well as inheritance from my grandparents recent passing, however this will only last so long with the likely £1200+ a week care costs. Therefore my current thoughts are that there is no immediate need to sell their house, so we should look at letting it out, in order to supplement her income.
So my question is, how much of this rental income is mums, and how much, if any is mine, based on the joint ownership of the house, and the 50/50 split in dads will? And the same for any capital raised from selling the house?
Thank you for any help in advance, and any thoughts from anyone who has been in a similar situation would be appreciated.
Worth reading here about medically needed care costs vs old age care costs - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health...
You may need to remind people that they are responsible for the costs, and possibly go to appeal for it, as they are reluctant to pay, especially where they see potentially self-funding people.
Re the split - follow the ownership percentage - if she had 50% prior , then her 50% of your fathers share brings her up to 75%.
You may need to remind people that they are responsible for the costs, and possibly go to appeal for it, as they are reluctant to pay, especially where they see potentially self-funding people.
Re the split - follow the ownership percentage - if she had 50% prior , then her 50% of your fathers share brings her up to 75%.
randlemarcus said:
Worth reading here about medically needed care costs vs old age care costs - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health...
You may need to remind people that they are responsible for the costs, and possibly go to appeal for it, as they are reluctant to pay, especially where they see potentially self-funding people.
Re the split - follow the ownership percentage - if she had 50% prior , then her 50% of your fathers share brings her up to 75%.
Thank you for this. We are not quite at the point where discharge plans are being discussed, but no doubt soon those conversations will come, and like you say, I need to be aware of the funding options, and that they are likely to try and skirt their responsibilities where possible!You may need to remind people that they are responsible for the costs, and possibly go to appeal for it, as they are reluctant to pay, especially where they see potentially self-funding people.
Re the split - follow the ownership percentage - if she had 50% prior , then her 50% of your fathers share brings her up to 75%.
The ownership split of 75/25 is what I was also thinking to be the most likely, so thanks for that.
1. Yes get the house rented out while it's empty, if your up to the challenge of being a landlord of course.
2. Make sure Land registry is updated with your 'shareholdings' once your dad's probate is granted.
3. Calculate how long your mum's cash will last before you need to sell the house to fund care. If it's looking less than a year then i'd be inclined just to sell up which can obviously take time depending on the condition of the property.
4. Have a look at applying for NHS continuing healthcare for your mum, you might get awarded some useful amount of care costs which will slow the burn rate.
2. Make sure Land registry is updated with your 'shareholdings' once your dad's probate is granted.
3. Calculate how long your mum's cash will last before you need to sell the house to fund care. If it's looking less than a year then i'd be inclined just to sell up which can obviously take time depending on the condition of the property.
4. Have a look at applying for NHS continuing healthcare for your mum, you might get awarded some useful amount of care costs which will slow the burn rate.
I would look to sell the house in time, unless you want to own and live in it one day. Much easier to manage a pile of cash or shares etc than try to rent out. Also, would you then get your share of the money straight away?
As background have had a few empty houses from relatives to look after (whilst in care homes) and it is difficult enough alone when empty, let alone if there is a random tenant demanding old boilers are fixed etc (perfectly reasonably but a pain when it happens). Not sure what sort of state your parents' house is in, but suspect that it is not all done up ready for young professionals or whatever the ideal is for the rental market.
The other thing is, with strokes, the recovery/care process is very hard on the family (emotionally up and down) even if they are in a home and whatever approach you plan needs to be sustainable, i.e. let you get on with your life, you can't tell if you looking at one year or five or more.
Get professional legal advice and try to make things has simple as possible. Unless you already do BTL or it is something you planned to do, cash in low coupon gilts (to avoid tax on the interest) for the next few years care costs and then some ETFs for longer term (see other threads on that).
Good luck, you have had a tough time, maybe don't do anything straightaway and see how things are in a couple of months.
[Edited: just to add, you probably can't do anything with the house for a while until probate is sorted for your Dad's estate which may take a while]
As background have had a few empty houses from relatives to look after (whilst in care homes) and it is difficult enough alone when empty, let alone if there is a random tenant demanding old boilers are fixed etc (perfectly reasonably but a pain when it happens). Not sure what sort of state your parents' house is in, but suspect that it is not all done up ready for young professionals or whatever the ideal is for the rental market.
The other thing is, with strokes, the recovery/care process is very hard on the family (emotionally up and down) even if they are in a home and whatever approach you plan needs to be sustainable, i.e. let you get on with your life, you can't tell if you looking at one year or five or more.
Get professional legal advice and try to make things has simple as possible. Unless you already do BTL or it is something you planned to do, cash in low coupon gilts (to avoid tax on the interest) for the next few years care costs and then some ETFs for longer term (see other threads on that).
Good luck, you have had a tough time, maybe don't do anything straightaway and see how things are in a couple of months.
[Edited: just to add, you probably can't do anything with the house for a while until probate is sorted for your Dad's estate which may take a while]
Edited by iom_dave on Monday 7th October 16:46
Daaaveee said:
So without wanting to get into that too much, the situation now is that my parents own a house outright, standard joint ownership. My dad's will states everything is split 50/50 between me and mum.
You say "standard joint ownership" - have you looked into this, a little?There's two types: joint tenants and tenants in common.
Usually (but not always) married couples would be joint tenants and when one dies the property passes to the other, regardless of what the Will says.
IANAl but as a joint owner can’t you live in the house? I assume the local authority can’t then force you to sell your share to fund your mums care costs therefore they can’t force a house sale to use your mums share to pay either?
The other alternative I can think is that the rental income from your share can be gifted back to your mum up to £3k a year I believe
The other alternative I can think is that the rental income from your share can be gifted back to your mum up to £3k a year I believe
1st step is did your parents own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
ClaphamGT3 said:
1st step is did your parents own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
Yes thats what I've just been looking at. I have the some paperwork from the land registry, but didn't see anything specifically on that saying joint tenants, or tenants in common, at least in those words. They only recently sorted this out as they bought the house back in the mid 80s and for whatever reason it wasn't registered back then?https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
I have that paperwork and the deeds, so any clues I should be looking for in that, or is there another way I can check?
https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk...
Pay the £6 and grab both title register and title plan. Check for charges etc
Pay the £6 and grab both title register and title plan. Check for charges etc
Daaaveee said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
1st step is did your parents own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common
https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
Yes thats what I've just been looking at. I have the some paperwork from the land registry, but didn't see anything specifically on that saying joint tenants, or tenants in common, at least in those words. They only recently sorted this out as they bought the house back in the mid 80s and for whatever reason it wasn't registered back then?https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership
I have that paperwork and the deeds, so any clues I should be looking for in that, or is there another way I can check?
‘No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.’
Daaaveee said:
Yes thats what I've just been looking at. I have the some paperwork from the land registry, but didn't see anything specifically on that saying joint tenants, or tenants in common, at least in those words. They only recently sorted this out as they bought the house back in the mid 80s and for whatever reason it wasn't registered back then?
I have that paperwork and the deeds, so any clues I should be looking for in that, or is there another way I can check?
Something to start the ball rolling is probably to get the deeds registered with the land registry. That takes quite a while, though they speed up if the house is due to be sold. Will need doing before you sell the house anyway, and probably better to get sorted. Again, another thing for a solicitor, they will also be able to sort out re the type of ownership.I have that paperwork and the deeds, so any clues I should be looking for in that, or is there another way I can check?
cliffords said:
Very short reply to say I have been where you are . I did sell the house and the proceeds are paying for my mum's care . I have not taken any of my share at all ,as the duration of care is unknown and therefore all funds need to be available.
Just to say, it might be worth taking you share and then the council will start paying towards the care costs earlier (once below £25k or whatever the limit is)? You can then chip in with your funds later if you are able and willing. Would suggest getting some professional advice as mixing funds could make things difficult down the line.Daaaveee said:
Yes thats what I've just been looking at. I have the some paperwork from the land registry, but didn't see anything specifically on that saying joint tenants, or tenants in common, at least in those words. They only recently sorted this out as they bought the house back in the mid 80s and for whatever reason it wasn't registered back then?
Registration was rolled out by area over a long time and didn't become compulsory everywhere until 1990.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff