Discussion
Saggy update..
As you can imagine, spent most of yesterday out playing.
Had a 350T RR last year so comparisons..
Also my last 3 cars were
Evo MR 340 tuned to fq 400 spec with 380bhp/380ftlbs
running full Cusco race suspension, uprated Brembos and Toyo R888s cut slicks(need these for Sag).
GT3, no need to say more
M3 CSL running 6pot APs, -3.5 degrees neg front camber and Cup sport tyres.
My local test track is Brands Indy, where if your car works well here, it works well anywhere.!
Evo would lap 55-56 secs
GT3, 57-58 secs
CSL , 57-58 secs
These times are with passenger stop watch, have only ever run data logging on Evo.
Acceleration on the Sagaris is savage, but deceptive, because the power delivery is so smooth and the suspension so compliant. The Evo would snap your head off with torque at 3000rpm but after 5000 rpm the power curve would straighten off. The GT3 I had dyno'd and my car with sports boxes was putting out 397 bhp, GT3 is flat until 5000rpm then pulls yer head off till 8200rpm. Sagaris has a wall of torque at 3000rpm, which then pulls until it hits power band about 5000rpm then keeps pulling hard until rev limiter, about 7500rpm.
Sag is quicker than GT3, similar to Evo maybe marginally quicker. Compared to the 350RR, would say extra torgue of Sag, gives better drive at 3000rpm, top end power being fairly close. But on road compliance of Sag is much better than 350, means much easier to put power down.
Handling..
Sagaris to me is absolute revelation, this car with right rubber..ooh err, will be devastingly quick on track, will be looking into the R888 situation.
I recently demo'd the new Caterham CSR 260, and the Sag handles like this, the steering is setup so there is no fidget over uneven camber, perfect, (this is the loose feel that some people complain of). But once you turn in, grip is instant and awesome, only the CSL got close.
GT3 turn in, with weight distribution is an art, you need to trail brake to keep the nose tucked in, and accelerating to hard to early out of a bend results in big understeer as the already heavy rear end compresses and lifts front, losing grip.
Evo with the adjustable Cusco suspension and electric gimmickery was awesome over any surface or condition. I used to stiffen the rebound damping for track to max, to dial out roll, then soften for my favourite B road.
I found the suspension on the 350 hard work, and handling is not a patch on Sag.
The way you can put the power down, exiting bends in the Sag is incredible, you have to really work to get it sideways, and even then it is so controllable.
Also the feedback through steering wheel is exremely good, only the GT3 had the same feedback(no weight at front mean't I could feel when I had run over chewing gum )
Brakes..
If you do a lot of trackwork, as I have, brakes have always been the most important and first upgrade.
AP racing make the best brakes in the world full stop, and the 4 pot setup on Sag is more than adequate on track for the 1060kg car. On road they need to be warmed to get the feel, but then the stopping power is as good as it gets, and with no nanny interfering ABS, you have complete control.
Overall Sag is mix of all the best bits of the other cars, torgue of Evo, top end power of GT3, turn in of CSL, grip and power delivery of Evo, on track ability of GT3. I would think Sag would lap quicker than all the other cars I have owned.
Cheers
Rob
As you can imagine, spent most of yesterday out playing.
Had a 350T RR last year so comparisons..
Also my last 3 cars were
Evo MR 340 tuned to fq 400 spec with 380bhp/380ftlbs
running full Cusco race suspension, uprated Brembos and Toyo R888s cut slicks(need these for Sag).
GT3, no need to say more
M3 CSL running 6pot APs, -3.5 degrees neg front camber and Cup sport tyres.
My local test track is Brands Indy, where if your car works well here, it works well anywhere.!
Evo would lap 55-56 secs
GT3, 57-58 secs
CSL , 57-58 secs
These times are with passenger stop watch, have only ever run data logging on Evo.
Acceleration on the Sagaris is savage, but deceptive, because the power delivery is so smooth and the suspension so compliant. The Evo would snap your head off with torque at 3000rpm but after 5000 rpm the power curve would straighten off. The GT3 I had dyno'd and my car with sports boxes was putting out 397 bhp, GT3 is flat until 5000rpm then pulls yer head off till 8200rpm. Sagaris has a wall of torque at 3000rpm, which then pulls until it hits power band about 5000rpm then keeps pulling hard until rev limiter, about 7500rpm.
Sag is quicker than GT3, similar to Evo maybe marginally quicker. Compared to the 350RR, would say extra torgue of Sag, gives better drive at 3000rpm, top end power being fairly close. But on road compliance of Sag is much better than 350, means much easier to put power down.
Handling..
Sagaris to me is absolute revelation, this car with right rubber..ooh err, will be devastingly quick on track, will be looking into the R888 situation.
I recently demo'd the new Caterham CSR 260, and the Sag handles like this, the steering is setup so there is no fidget over uneven camber, perfect, (this is the loose feel that some people complain of). But once you turn in, grip is instant and awesome, only the CSL got close.
GT3 turn in, with weight distribution is an art, you need to trail brake to keep the nose tucked in, and accelerating to hard to early out of a bend results in big understeer as the already heavy rear end compresses and lifts front, losing grip.
Evo with the adjustable Cusco suspension and electric gimmickery was awesome over any surface or condition. I used to stiffen the rebound damping for track to max, to dial out roll, then soften for my favourite B road.
I found the suspension on the 350 hard work, and handling is not a patch on Sag.
The way you can put the power down, exiting bends in the Sag is incredible, you have to really work to get it sideways, and even then it is so controllable.
Also the feedback through steering wheel is exremely good, only the GT3 had the same feedback(no weight at front mean't I could feel when I had run over chewing gum
) Brakes..
If you do a lot of trackwork, as I have, brakes have always been the most important and first upgrade.
AP racing make the best brakes in the world full stop, and the 4 pot setup on Sag is more than adequate on track for the 1060kg car. On road they need to be warmed to get the feel, but then the stopping power is as good as it gets, and with no nanny interfering ABS, you have complete control.
Overall Sag is mix of all the best bits of the other cars, torgue of Evo, top end power of GT3, turn in of CSL, grip and power delivery of Evo, on track ability of GT3. I would think Sag would lap quicker than all the other cars I have owned.
Cheers
Rob
JasperJ said:
Excellent balanced report.. is there anything you would change? Any modification that you would like to make (apart from tyres)? Same question to SpeedYellow if your around.
Cheers, I think it will take me a few weeks to really get my head around the whole setup.
I was told that suspension is fully adjustable, not sure if this was true.? I suppose you could dial in a tad more from neg front camber to give even sharper turn-in on track, but downside could be high speed tramlining and excessive inner tyre wear.
A 440 bhp upgrade, would be v.nice
Def like the idea of the perspex bonnet.
Rob
Kurgen_ said:
Overall Sag is mix of all the best bits of the other cars, torgue of Evo, top end power of GT3, turn in of CSL, grip and power delivery of Evo, on track ability of GT3. I would think Sag would lap quicker than all the other cars I have owned.
Cheers
Rob
Which is why NS ought to dig into his marketing-budget and rent the 'Ring for a day and take along a Sagaris and grab some headlines!
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