What second car to buy and how much to spend?
Discussion
I've been looking for a second car for our family for a while now and I'm finding myself at a bit of a loss, so I'm wondering if some more experienced and wiser heads in the PH community can help me out.
We currently drive a leased 2022 Audi E-Tron Vorsprung on an EV car scheme that costs about £550 per month all-in (including insurance, etc). It's a nice place to be, but I'd like something petrol and fast that feels a bit 'special' for a second car. When the lease ends next year, we'll probably look to replace it with another EV SUV for family duties, unless Labour pull the advantageous BIK rates.
So this second car would be "my" car that would mostly just be me driving, but I'd ideally like something I can take out the wife and ideally two young children (aged 7 and 4) for family days out or short trips away as well. We don't commute with the cars, but use them regularly for school runs, shopping, taking the kids to things (often now separate clubs at weekends), family days out, holidays, etc. I might also use this car for work to go away for certain events in various parts of the UK or even northern continental Europe a few times per year. I think I'd prefer something automatic (with paddle shifts) because I live in outer London and traffic can be a bit of a pain, although it's not too difficult to get out on some better roads within about 15-20 minutes' drive. I'd ideally like something with a couple or cabriolet shape - I quite like the cab idea and my kids are very keen on this after sitting in a couple of cabs for test drives, but it does come with some compromises and I wonder if a coupe with a big sunroof might work better in this country...
I'm looking to buy something used, which ideally isn't going to depreciate that much or cost much in terms of car tax or unexpected bills. That means I'm leaning towards something around 3-5 years old, but I'm not an expert and open to suggestions on this. I do also quite like my mod cons like Android Auto, memory seats, heads-up display, adaptive cruise, etc., which makes me lean towards something more modern; but they aren't deal-breakers (especially if I could retrofit an infotainment system with Android Auto relatively). I do quite like a nice interior as well and not generally a fan of dated feeling cars with baggy leather, etc. I guess I'm not really too much of a connoisseur... I'm also looking for something that feels a bit special, without looking too flashy - so perhaps something in a bit of a middle ground like a Porsche, Maserati, Lotus or Mustang? I could be way off on this and not an expert, but in my limited frame of reference something like a Ferrari or Bentley, etc., would feel too flashy and Audis/BMWs/Mercs seem quite commonplace where I am...
Budget is another issue I'm really struggling with. I have about £25k in spare cash sitting in a bank account that I can put down on this, but I could borrow up to another ~£60k with a personal loan at around 7-8%, so I was looking at cars between about £30k and £80k. This leaves me with a pretty big range! Household income has got quite high in the past year or two (around £400k gross) with fixed costs of mortgage, school fees and nursery fees being around £5kpm altogether, so leaving about another £15k per month for other spending and saving. While income is quite high, I'm still relatively young without much in assets accumulated yet though, so I'm considering financing this. I'm a bit torn between the feeling of not wanting to waste money on interest/depreciation/maintenance vs having reached my late 30s and never having owned a sporty car all my life and - with the twilight of ICE on us - feeling like just pushing the boat out a bit now and getting myself something I really enjoy. Maybe an early mid-life crisis?! I have done the sums and think I could spend £1kpm on a loan quite comfortably (with a view to paying it off early from savings over the next year or two), but I'm just concerned I could end up bored with the car and regret wasted money on interest/depreciation.
Some cars I've considered and like the look of include:
Porsche 911 coupe and cabriolet or Boxster (992, 991 or 997 and 718 or 981)
BMW M4 / M440i or M8 / M850i (cabriolet)
Merc C63 or E63 (cabriolet)
Lotus Evora
Jaguar F-Type
Maserati GranCabrio
Ford Mustang
Thanks for reading if you've made it this far - any and all advice gratefully received!
We currently drive a leased 2022 Audi E-Tron Vorsprung on an EV car scheme that costs about £550 per month all-in (including insurance, etc). It's a nice place to be, but I'd like something petrol and fast that feels a bit 'special' for a second car. When the lease ends next year, we'll probably look to replace it with another EV SUV for family duties, unless Labour pull the advantageous BIK rates.
So this second car would be "my" car that would mostly just be me driving, but I'd ideally like something I can take out the wife and ideally two young children (aged 7 and 4) for family days out or short trips away as well. We don't commute with the cars, but use them regularly for school runs, shopping, taking the kids to things (often now separate clubs at weekends), family days out, holidays, etc. I might also use this car for work to go away for certain events in various parts of the UK or even northern continental Europe a few times per year. I think I'd prefer something automatic (with paddle shifts) because I live in outer London and traffic can be a bit of a pain, although it's not too difficult to get out on some better roads within about 15-20 minutes' drive. I'd ideally like something with a couple or cabriolet shape - I quite like the cab idea and my kids are very keen on this after sitting in a couple of cabs for test drives, but it does come with some compromises and I wonder if a coupe with a big sunroof might work better in this country...
I'm looking to buy something used, which ideally isn't going to depreciate that much or cost much in terms of car tax or unexpected bills. That means I'm leaning towards something around 3-5 years old, but I'm not an expert and open to suggestions on this. I do also quite like my mod cons like Android Auto, memory seats, heads-up display, adaptive cruise, etc., which makes me lean towards something more modern; but they aren't deal-breakers (especially if I could retrofit an infotainment system with Android Auto relatively). I do quite like a nice interior as well and not generally a fan of dated feeling cars with baggy leather, etc. I guess I'm not really too much of a connoisseur... I'm also looking for something that feels a bit special, without looking too flashy - so perhaps something in a bit of a middle ground like a Porsche, Maserati, Lotus or Mustang? I could be way off on this and not an expert, but in my limited frame of reference something like a Ferrari or Bentley, etc., would feel too flashy and Audis/BMWs/Mercs seem quite commonplace where I am...
Budget is another issue I'm really struggling with. I have about £25k in spare cash sitting in a bank account that I can put down on this, but I could borrow up to another ~£60k with a personal loan at around 7-8%, so I was looking at cars between about £30k and £80k. This leaves me with a pretty big range! Household income has got quite high in the past year or two (around £400k gross) with fixed costs of mortgage, school fees and nursery fees being around £5kpm altogether, so leaving about another £15k per month for other spending and saving. While income is quite high, I'm still relatively young without much in assets accumulated yet though, so I'm considering financing this. I'm a bit torn between the feeling of not wanting to waste money on interest/depreciation/maintenance vs having reached my late 30s and never having owned a sporty car all my life and - with the twilight of ICE on us - feeling like just pushing the boat out a bit now and getting myself something I really enjoy. Maybe an early mid-life crisis?! I have done the sums and think I could spend £1kpm on a loan quite comfortably (with a view to paying it off early from savings over the next year or two), but I'm just concerned I could end up bored with the car and regret wasted money on interest/depreciation.
Some cars I've considered and like the look of include:
Porsche 911 coupe and cabriolet or Boxster (992, 991 or 997 and 718 or 981)
BMW M4 / M440i or M8 / M850i (cabriolet)
Merc C63 or E63 (cabriolet)
Lotus Evora
Jaguar F-Type
Maserati GranCabrio
Ford Mustang
Thanks for reading if you've made it this far - any and all advice gratefully received!
Seeing as you want low depreciation and presumably lowish running costs the 911 is the only car on your list that fits your description imo. The Boxster/Cayman is strictly a 2 seater.
PDK gearbox is excellent one of the best manual/autos.
Perhaps try a Carrera 2S with sunroof then a Targa then maybe a cabriolet.
Would recommend a 991 (2011) or newer and a Porsche official warranty which is comprehensive and renewable at a reasonable cost. Official full main dealer Porsche service history is essential.
PDK gearbox is excellent one of the best manual/autos.
Perhaps try a Carrera 2S with sunroof then a Targa then maybe a cabriolet.
Would recommend a 991 (2011) or newer and a Porsche official warranty which is comprehensive and renewable at a reasonable cost. Official full main dealer Porsche service history is essential.
av185 said:
Seeing as you want low depreciation and presumably lowish running costs the 911 is the only car on your list that fits your description imo. The Boxster/Cayman is strictly a 2 seater.
PDK gearbox is excellent one of the best manual/autos.
Perhaps try a Carrera 2S with sunroof then a Targa then maybe a cabriolet.
Would recommend a 991 (2011) or newer and a Porsche official warranty which is comprehensive and renewable at a reasonable cost. Official full main dealer Porsche service history is essential.
Thanks for the reply! The 911 was definitely up there at the top of my list for the reasons you give (2+2, warranty, etc) and it ticks the box of feeling a bit special for me, while having some practicality in the form of 4-seater (just about). The C2S felt like a good spot as well, as I don't think I'd really use much of the additional power for the higher ranges on UK roads (I might try tracking it, but not more than about once per year probably). I've sat in and driven both a 991 and a 992, liking both of them a lot and with a modest preference for the 992 that felt a bit more modern. PDK gearbox is excellent one of the best manual/autos.
Perhaps try a Carrera 2S with sunroof then a Targa then maybe a cabriolet.
Would recommend a 991 (2011) or newer and a Porsche official warranty which is comprehensive and renewable at a reasonable cost. Official full main dealer Porsche service history is essential.
My concern with the 911 is that an early 992 has a high sticker price (about £70-90k), so costing me more in interest and tying up more capital in a secondary car. And I'm a bit worried about older 991s (or even 997s) having a mare with borescoring or IMS issues or just feeling a bit dated (though perhaps fixed to an extent by swapping out the PCM). They also didn't seem exactly cheap and I felt like if I were going to spend £40k or £50k on a 10-year old car, maybe I might as well spend £80k on a four-year old one?
If I were to go down the 911 route, what would might you suggest the sweet spot would be in terms of year/price for getting a fairly modern one that doesn't have big ongoing costs in terms of depreciation, tax and maintenance?
I should also probably clarify that I'm aware the Boxster is only 2 seats, but you seem to get a lot more car for your money than with a 911... I could probably justify getting a 2-seater with more limited use cases if it's a lot cheaper, but I worry that it would end up sitting on the drive more, so my instinct is that getting a four-seater would be a more sensible purchase overall. I also wasn't a huge fan of the 4-cylinder engine and feel like I'd be missing out compared with getting a flat 6 Porsche (and the GTS 4.0 is approaching 911 money). But I have driven one and liked it, so kept it on the list!
I don't think Av185's answer is entirely objective - based on the post history it was always going to be "Porsche". However, you say you've driven a couple of 911s and liked them so maybe that is the right answer.
I've had a few 911s - the last being a 996 turbo - and found them a tad dull. I don't know if it's improved in later cars, but the interior was never really their strong point either.
From the list in the opening post, I'd probably look at Mustang - always make me look twice. I do like the look of F-Types, but they are a bit too similar to AM Vantages to me and I'd rather have the Aston. I can see somebody has already recommended Aston's - although I always think the 4 seater ones look a bit stretched.
I wanted an Evora - until I drove one, and I hated it - but I think that puts me in the 0.1% of the population.
If you're going to spend £80k - and really could live with 2 seats - that would get you into a McLaren.
I've had a few 911s - the last being a 996 turbo - and found them a tad dull. I don't know if it's improved in later cars, but the interior was never really their strong point either.
From the list in the opening post, I'd probably look at Mustang - always make me look twice. I do like the look of F-Types, but they are a bit too similar to AM Vantages to me and I'd rather have the Aston. I can see somebody has already recommended Aston's - although I always think the 4 seater ones look a bit stretched.
I wanted an Evora - until I drove one, and I hated it - but I think that puts me in the 0.1% of the population.
If you're going to spend £80k - and really could live with 2 seats - that would get you into a McLaren.
Crispy Pigeon said:
My concern with the 911 is that an early 992 has a high sticker price (about £70-90k), so costing me more in interest and tying up more capital in a secondary car. And I'm a bit worried about older 991s (or even 997s) having a mare with borescoring or IMS issues or just feeling a bit dated (though perhaps fixed to an extent by swapping out the PCM). They also didn't seem exactly cheap and I felt like if I were going to spend £40k or £50k on a 10-year old car, maybe I might as well spend £80k on a four-year old one?
If I were to go down the 911 route, what would might you suggest the sweet spot would be in terms of year/price for getting a fairly modern one that doesn't have big ongoing costs in terms of depreciation, tax and maintenance?
Your sweet spot and my sweet spot may be entirely different. For example I am not into new tech and for a 2nd car would not want to tie up too much capital, and don't like depreciation, so would go for a 997.2 if heading the 911 way.If I were to go down the 911 route, what would might you suggest the sweet spot would be in terms of year/price for getting a fairly modern one that doesn't have big ongoing costs in terms of depreciation, tax and maintenance?
Surely pretty much anything 3 to 5 years old will still have a fair way to go on the depreciation curve?
Personally i'd be looking for something like this lexus that are very reliable, slightly different and unlikely to depreciate any further.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407312...
Or spend a bit more and get a GS-F which may have more of the toys etc that your looking for.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407312...
Or if the coupe body is a must then heres another lexus that to me at least is pretty special and shouldnt lose too much value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408273...
Personally i'd be looking for something like this lexus that are very reliable, slightly different and unlikely to depreciate any further.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407312...
Or spend a bit more and get a GS-F which may have more of the toys etc that your looking for.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407312...
Or if the coupe body is a must then heres another lexus that to me at least is pretty special and shouldnt lose too much value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408273...
Crispy Pigeon said:
Thanks for the reply! The 911 was definitely up there at the top of my list for the reasons you give (2+2, warranty, etc) and it ticks the box of feeling a bit special for me, while having some practicality in the form of 4-seater (just about). The C2S felt like a good spot as well, as I don't think I'd really use much of the additional power for the higher ranges on UK roads (I might try tracking it, but not more than about once per year probably). I've sat in and driven both a 991 and a 992, liking both of them a lot and with a modest preference for the 992 that felt a bit more modern.
My concern with the 911 is that an early 992 has a high sticker price (about £70-90k), so costing me more in interest and tying up more capital in a secondary car. And I'm a bit worried about older 991s (or even 997s) having a mare with borescoring or IMS issues or just feeling a bit dated (though perhaps fixed to an extent by swapping out the PCM). They also didn't seem exactly cheap and I felt like if I were going to spend £40k or £50k on a 10-year old car, maybe I might as well spend £80k on a four-year old one?
If I were to go down the 911 route, what would might you suggest the sweet spot would be in terms of year/price for getting a fairly modern one that doesn't have big ongoing costs in terms of depreciation, tax and maintenance?
I should also probably clarify that I'm aware the Boxster is only 2 seats, but you seem to get a lot more car for your money than with a 911... I could probably justify getting a 2-seater with more limited use cases if it's a lot cheaper, but I worry that it would end up sitting on the drive more, so my instinct is that getting a four-seater would be a more sensible purchase overall. I also wasn't a huge fan of the 4-cylinder engine and feel like I'd be missing out compared with getting a flat 6 Porsche (and the GTS 4.0 is approaching 911 money). But I have driven one and liked it, so kept it on the list!
Since you are obviously keen on the 911 (being top of your list too) for clear reasons I would consider a 991.1 or 991.2 GTS which are a great package and good value too at the money. Step up from the S but not too raw approaching a GT3.My concern with the 911 is that an early 992 has a high sticker price (about £70-90k), so costing me more in interest and tying up more capital in a secondary car. And I'm a bit worried about older 991s (or even 997s) having a mare with borescoring or IMS issues or just feeling a bit dated (though perhaps fixed to an extent by swapping out the PCM). They also didn't seem exactly cheap and I felt like if I were going to spend £40k or £50k on a 10-year old car, maybe I might as well spend £80k on a four-year old one?
If I were to go down the 911 route, what would might you suggest the sweet spot would be in terms of year/price for getting a fairly modern one that doesn't have big ongoing costs in terms of depreciation, tax and maintenance?
I should also probably clarify that I'm aware the Boxster is only 2 seats, but you seem to get a lot more car for your money than with a 911... I could probably justify getting a 2-seater with more limited use cases if it's a lot cheaper, but I worry that it would end up sitting on the drive more, so my instinct is that getting a four-seater would be a more sensible purchase overall. I also wasn't a huge fan of the 4-cylinder engine and feel like I'd be missing out compared with getting a flat 6 Porsche (and the GTS 4.0 is approaching 911 money). But I have driven one and liked it, so kept it on the list!
The 911 has moved on considerably from Daveks 996 elderly Turbo btw.
If you are looking at the Cayster the 4.0 GTS is also a great package...essentially a restricted GT4 with increased usability.
You place residual value and low running costs quite highly so that would immediately reject the majority of other cars on your initial list which many are conveniently forgetting about.
I had a similar (very lucky) conundrum about 4 years ago.
Always wanted a Porsche, even named the savings account 'the Porsche account' but when it came time I really didn't fall in love with the 911 or Boxter or Cayman. They are fantastic cars if you are on a track but they were a little to good for road driving at road speeds.
I tried a number of cars looking for something exciting at road speeds while not breaking the bank in running costs so it needed to be fairly solid. I bought a 2 year old Mercedes C63S coupe which I've had for 4 years now. I went to test drive a Porsche at a dealership and when I took it back I explained it needed to be exciting for everyday pootling and he went and started the C63. It was inside a large warehouse type building and it felt like the whole building rattled when he started it, I was sold.
Its a 4 seater if the people in the back are small, I've been to LeMan in it with a couple of mates and with 3 tall blokes, their camping equipment and beer it was a very tight fit. It does around 30mpg on ave in my hands, 35 on a long motorway run if you're gentle with it and 9 when you're spanking it around Brands Hatch. Servicing averages out to around £1000 a year at a dealer but can be done for less at a good indy. So far it's been very reliable, the C63S is one of the lower states of tune for the 4.0 twin turbo V8 so it's pretty unstressed. Only mechanical was an iffy coil pack which was sorted for £300. Aux belts have been changed as they were getting squeaky, had all 4 tyres and all brake pads replaced in my ownership which isn't too bad for the performance.
The only part of your brief it doesn't fill is the depreciation, my car has lost around £2,500 a year give or take over the last 4 years which isn't terrible but it will be interesting to see if that continues. No more small(ish) V8's anymore anywhere and the W204 6.2 V8's seem to have bottomed out so the W205 4.0TT V8s are merging in price with them so Im not sure how much lower the prices can go. It's not a small volume car so I wouldn't expect it to be worth significant money in the future.
Always wanted a Porsche, even named the savings account 'the Porsche account' but when it came time I really didn't fall in love with the 911 or Boxter or Cayman. They are fantastic cars if you are on a track but they were a little to good for road driving at road speeds.
I tried a number of cars looking for something exciting at road speeds while not breaking the bank in running costs so it needed to be fairly solid. I bought a 2 year old Mercedes C63S coupe which I've had for 4 years now. I went to test drive a Porsche at a dealership and when I took it back I explained it needed to be exciting for everyday pootling and he went and started the C63. It was inside a large warehouse type building and it felt like the whole building rattled when he started it, I was sold.
Its a 4 seater if the people in the back are small, I've been to LeMan in it with a couple of mates and with 3 tall blokes, their camping equipment and beer it was a very tight fit. It does around 30mpg on ave in my hands, 35 on a long motorway run if you're gentle with it and 9 when you're spanking it around Brands Hatch. Servicing averages out to around £1000 a year at a dealer but can be done for less at a good indy. So far it's been very reliable, the C63S is one of the lower states of tune for the 4.0 twin turbo V8 so it's pretty unstressed. Only mechanical was an iffy coil pack which was sorted for £300. Aux belts have been changed as they were getting squeaky, had all 4 tyres and all brake pads replaced in my ownership which isn't too bad for the performance.
The only part of your brief it doesn't fill is the depreciation, my car has lost around £2,500 a year give or take over the last 4 years which isn't terrible but it will be interesting to see if that continues. No more small(ish) V8's anymore anywhere and the W204 6.2 V8's seem to have bottomed out so the W205 4.0TT V8s are merging in price with them so Im not sure how much lower the prices can go. It's not a small volume car so I wouldn't expect it to be worth significant money in the future.
Thanks for all the responses and advice guys!
The sweet spot as you put it feels like rather the key question that I am struggling with and any experience from those who have been through this process themselves (probably with more knowledge/experience in most cases) and where they ended up would be welcome...
I know what you mean about the F-Types as well and they're also two seaters, at which point I think I'd prefer a Boxster.
What did you hate about the Evora out of interest? I haven't driven one yet, but am trying to...
Would love a McLaren, but think it definitely falls into the "too flash"...! Give it 5-10 years though...
Thanks for the Lexus suggestions - I'll take a look. I think I'd dismissed Lexus as a bit boring / Alan Partridge, but might be showing my ignorance.
I can live with a certain amount of depreciation, but would be a lot more comfortable with a car losing something like £2-3k per year (or maybe £5k), as once it starts to get more than that on top of insurance, interest and maintenance, it is starting to feel quite expensive for a secondary car.
I could totally live with £2.5k pa in depreciation actually - what I'm really looking to avoid is buying something for £80k that is then worth £50k 3 years later, as I don't think I could really justify taking that sort of bath on a second car.
What sort of year / price might you look at for a C63? And did you consider the E or S class Mercs at all? I reckon the C class would be fine with my young kids in the back and probably better than a 911. My 4-year-old sat in the back of a 911 and a M4 on the same day and he was a lot happier in the BMW tbh.
Rotary Potato said:
An Aston Martin?
The exact age and model to be determined by what you decide is the sweet spot in the 'age vs car vs cost' tug of war!
I've idly browsed a few AMs on Autotrader, but haven't been able to see any of them in the metal yet. Anything you might suggest? A DB11 (Volante?) or similar? I've always admired the brand (a lot), but I suppose I had in my head that they were similar price to the Porsches, but maybe slightly more expensive and less reliable/more dated interiors? I could be wildly wrong on this though and would quite like to have a drive of one. The exact age and model to be determined by what you decide is the sweet spot in the 'age vs car vs cost' tug of war!
The sweet spot as you put it feels like rather the key question that I am struggling with and any experience from those who have been through this process themselves (probably with more knowledge/experience in most cases) and where they ended up would be welcome...
davek_964 said:
I don't think Av185's answer is entirely objective - based on the post history it was always going to be "Porsche". However, you say you've driven a couple of 911s and liked them so maybe that is the right answer.
I've had a few 911s - the last being a 996 turbo - and found them a tad dull. I don't know if it's improved in later cars, but the interior was never really their strong point either.
From the list in the opening post, I'd probably look at Mustang - always make me look twice. I do like the look of F-Types, but they are a bit too similar to AM Vantages to me and I'd rather have the Aston. I can see somebody has already recommended Aston's - although I always think the 4 seater ones look a bit stretched.
I wanted an Evora - until I drove one, and I hated it - but I think that puts me in the 0.1% of the population.
If you're going to spend £80k - and really could live with 2 seats - that would get you into a McLaren.
I do love the appearance of the Mustang as well, but not a huge fan of the interior tbh. And they are quite big cars and not as sporty as something like a 911... I might be able to get over this though and they do seem like good value. I'm not sure what the depreciation curve is like on them.I've had a few 911s - the last being a 996 turbo - and found them a tad dull. I don't know if it's improved in later cars, but the interior was never really their strong point either.
From the list in the opening post, I'd probably look at Mustang - always make me look twice. I do like the look of F-Types, but they are a bit too similar to AM Vantages to me and I'd rather have the Aston. I can see somebody has already recommended Aston's - although I always think the 4 seater ones look a bit stretched.
I wanted an Evora - until I drove one, and I hated it - but I think that puts me in the 0.1% of the population.
If you're going to spend £80k - and really could live with 2 seats - that would get you into a McLaren.
I know what you mean about the F-Types as well and they're also two seaters, at which point I think I'd prefer a Boxster.
What did you hate about the Evora out of interest? I haven't driven one yet, but am trying to...
Would love a McLaren, but think it definitely falls into the "too flash"...! Give it 5-10 years though...
fflump said:
Your sweet spot and my sweet spot may be entirely different. For example I am not into new tech and for a 2nd car would not want to tie up too much capital, and don't like depreciation, so would go for a 997.2 if heading the 911 way.
Fair point - I share your views re capital and depreciation I think, so good to know the 997.2 would be your pick and I will take another look at them. I quite like new tech, but could live without it for this car, as long as I can retrofit some sort of Android Auto / Car Play solution (which seems to be the case with most cars from the past 10 years). I appreciate everyone's sweet spot is different, but just looking for experiences and suggestions from those more knowledgeable than me who have done this sort of thinking already...blue_haddock said:
Surely pretty much anything 3 to 5 years old will still have a fair way to go on the depreciation curve?
Personally i'd be looking for something like this lexus that are very reliable, slightly different and unlikely to depreciate any further.
...
I am no expert, but thought 3-5 years was past the worst part of the depreciation curve, while still remaining somewhat modern and within warranty... I can live with some depreciation, but was hoping for something like losing a few grand year on it rather than ten grand per year, which I don't think I could justify to myself. What sort of age would you typically suggest looking at for this if not 3-5 years? Personally i'd be looking for something like this lexus that are very reliable, slightly different and unlikely to depreciate any further.
...
Thanks for the Lexus suggestions - I'll take a look. I think I'd dismissed Lexus as a bit boring / Alan Partridge, but might be showing my ignorance.
av185 said:
Since you are obviously keen on the 911 (being top of your list too) for clear reasons I would consider a 991.1 or 991.2 GTS which are a great package and good value too at the money. Step up from the S but not too raw approaching a GT3.
The 911 has moved on considerably from Daveks 996 elderly Turbo btw.
If you are looking at the Cayster the 4.0 GTS is also a great package...essentially a restricted GT4 with increased usability.
You place residual value and low running costs quite highly so that would immediately reject the majority of other cars on your initial list which many are conveniently forgetting about.
Yes, I was pretty happy with the 991 overall and it felt sufficiently modern as a package. Would you suggest a 991.1 or 991.2 or either? Or any particular years to go for (or avoid)? My reservation with the 991 was that it seemed like they seemed to be about £60k+ generally, so I was thinking at which point you might as well try to get into the new model for about £80k? I think I'd be happy with a base Carrera or S, as I'm not sure I'd really use the additional power in the GTS, unless the GTS holds its value a lot better?The 911 has moved on considerably from Daveks 996 elderly Turbo btw.
If you are looking at the Cayster the 4.0 GTS is also a great package...essentially a restricted GT4 with increased usability.
You place residual value and low running costs quite highly so that would immediately reject the majority of other cars on your initial list which many are conveniently forgetting about.
I can live with a certain amount of depreciation, but would be a lot more comfortable with a car losing something like £2-3k per year (or maybe £5k), as once it starts to get more than that on top of insurance, interest and maintenance, it is starting to feel quite expensive for a secondary car.
LeeM135i said:
I had a similar (very lucky) conundrum about 4 years ago.
Always wanted a Porsche, even named the savings account 'the Porsche account' but when it came time I really didn't fall in love with the 911 or Boxter or Cayman. They are fantastic cars if you are on a track but they were a little to good for road driving at road speeds.
I tried a number of cars looking for something exciting at road speeds while not breaking the bank in running costs so it needed to be fairly solid. I bought a 2 year old Mercedes C63S coupe which I've had for 4 years now. I went to test drive a Porsche at a dealership and when I took it back I explained it needed to be exciting for everyday pootling and he went and started the C63. It was inside a large warehouse type building and it felt like the whole building rattled when he started it, I was sold.
Its a 4 seater if the people in the back are small, I've been to LeMan in it with a couple of mates and with 3 tall blokes, their camping equipment and beer it was a very tight fit. It does around 30mpg on ave in my hands, 35 on a long motorway run if you're gentle with it and 9 when you're spanking it around Brands Hatch. Servicing averages out to around £1000 a year at a dealer but can be done for less at a good indy. So far it's been very reliable, the C63S is one of the lower states of tune for the 4.0 twin turbo V8 so it's pretty unstressed. Only mechanical was an iffy coil pack which was sorted for £300. Aux belts have been changed as they were getting squeaky, had all 4 tyres and all brake pads replaced in my ownership which isn't too bad for the performance.
The only part of your brief it doesn't fill is the depreciation, my car has lost around £2,500 a year give or take over the last 4 years which isn't terrible but it will be interesting to see if that continues. No more small(ish) V8's anymore anywhere and the W204 6.2 V8's seem to have bottomed out so the W205 4.0TT V8s are merging in price with them so Im not sure how much lower the prices can go. It's not a small volume car so I wouldn't expect it to be worth significant money in the future.
This is all very interesting, thanks! I have only just started looking at the C63 myself on AT and interesting to hear your experience and how you went for it over the Porsche... I guess I've always fancied a Porsche and you see loads of Mercs, so I was leaning towards something that might feel a bit more special, but sounds like you think the C63 does the job for you. I guess the V8 helps with that. I'd probably also look for a convertible, which offers something different as well, unless there's anything particularly wrong with those over the coupes.Always wanted a Porsche, even named the savings account 'the Porsche account' but when it came time I really didn't fall in love with the 911 or Boxter or Cayman. They are fantastic cars if you are on a track but they were a little to good for road driving at road speeds.
I tried a number of cars looking for something exciting at road speeds while not breaking the bank in running costs so it needed to be fairly solid. I bought a 2 year old Mercedes C63S coupe which I've had for 4 years now. I went to test drive a Porsche at a dealership and when I took it back I explained it needed to be exciting for everyday pootling and he went and started the C63. It was inside a large warehouse type building and it felt like the whole building rattled when he started it, I was sold.
Its a 4 seater if the people in the back are small, I've been to LeMan in it with a couple of mates and with 3 tall blokes, their camping equipment and beer it was a very tight fit. It does around 30mpg on ave in my hands, 35 on a long motorway run if you're gentle with it and 9 when you're spanking it around Brands Hatch. Servicing averages out to around £1000 a year at a dealer but can be done for less at a good indy. So far it's been very reliable, the C63S is one of the lower states of tune for the 4.0 twin turbo V8 so it's pretty unstressed. Only mechanical was an iffy coil pack which was sorted for £300. Aux belts have been changed as they were getting squeaky, had all 4 tyres and all brake pads replaced in my ownership which isn't too bad for the performance.
The only part of your brief it doesn't fill is the depreciation, my car has lost around £2,500 a year give or take over the last 4 years which isn't terrible but it will be interesting to see if that continues. No more small(ish) V8's anymore anywhere and the W204 6.2 V8's seem to have bottomed out so the W205 4.0TT V8s are merging in price with them so Im not sure how much lower the prices can go. It's not a small volume car so I wouldn't expect it to be worth significant money in the future.
I could totally live with £2.5k pa in depreciation actually - what I'm really looking to avoid is buying something for £80k that is then worth £50k 3 years later, as I don't think I could really justify taking that sort of bath on a second car.
What sort of year / price might you look at for a C63? And did you consider the E or S class Mercs at all? I reckon the C class would be fine with my young kids in the back and probably better than a 911. My 4-year-old sat in the back of a 911 and a M4 on the same day and he was a lot happier in the BMW tbh.
Other good value option instead of a Cayster is the Emira...as long as you go in with your eyes wide open.
I ordered a couple....2021 (V6FE) and 2022 (i4FE) but cancelled due to a multitude of reasons not least Lotus incompetence..
They now sit at early £60ks for a 9 month old 500 mile V6 or brand new i4 dct and there are around 80 used for sale which is depressing prices further from the V6 initial overpriced c£90k otr cost new. They may settle at early £50ks...difficult to tell.
Later cars appear to be possibly better built but there are still paint electrical and water ingress issues although some PHers claim to have cars which apparantly have had relatively few issues. Great looking car and better looking than a 458/488 imo. Lotus dealer network and support are generally typically poor though and understandably nowhere near the equivalent Ferrari or Porsche networks.
Regarding the 911 GTS I would buy the newest car possible but be aware one gen is na the other turbo so as ever take them for a long test drive to see which you prefer. Fewer GTS than S should prop up future values reasonably well.
I ordered a couple....2021 (V6FE) and 2022 (i4FE) but cancelled due to a multitude of reasons not least Lotus incompetence..
They now sit at early £60ks for a 9 month old 500 mile V6 or brand new i4 dct and there are around 80 used for sale which is depressing prices further from the V6 initial overpriced c£90k otr cost new. They may settle at early £50ks...difficult to tell.
Later cars appear to be possibly better built but there are still paint electrical and water ingress issues although some PHers claim to have cars which apparantly have had relatively few issues. Great looking car and better looking than a 458/488 imo. Lotus dealer network and support are generally typically poor though and understandably nowhere near the equivalent Ferrari or Porsche networks.
Regarding the 911 GTS I would buy the newest car possible but be aware one gen is na the other turbo so as ever take them for a long test drive to see which you prefer. Fewer GTS than S should prop up future values reasonably well.
Crispy Pigeon said:
What did you hate about the Evora out of interest? I haven't driven one yet, but am trying to...
It felt massively compromised to me - which is fine, but I didn't find the 'but it's ok because' part.It was raining when I collected it so I initially stayed out of sport mode. The gear changes were ridiculously slow (several seconds) - so slow that I thought it wasn't changing gear, would try again and then find it changed gear twice.
The side mirrors are useless - they point at the side of the car. It was quite funny searching about that (to see if there was a way to solve it) to find lots of posts from Americans saying it must be because it was originally designed as a RHD car.
Sport mode / putting my foot down made it louder (and change gear faster) but didn't really seem to do much else.
It handled ok, but I was expecting better.
It just felt like a car that had a number of things I'd have to put up with, without giving me anything that made it worth doing so.
As I said, I'm probably in a minority of one. But I was seriously considering buying one before I had the use of this one - I had it for over a week, and it spent most of that time on my driveway because I disliked it so much I preferred to use my other car.
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