Discussion
So onwards the circus rolls and the 2025 season starts today!
Will the inline 4 engine of the Yamaha come good?
Will Jorge Martin make all the difference to Aprilia and get him two championships on the trot?
Will Marc Marquez do Marc Marquez things and win most sprints and races and then the championship?
Will Pecco be able to take Marquez on?
An interesting fact about Jorge Martin winning the 2024 championship is that he's the first "non works" (note the quotation marks!) to win for I-don't-know--how-long, the first to jump from one manufacturer to another with the number 1 plate since Rossi when he went from honda to yamaha twenty odd years ago.
Will the inline 4 engine of the Yamaha come good?
Will Jorge Martin make all the difference to Aprilia and get him two championships on the trot?
Will Marc Marquez do Marc Marquez things and win most sprints and races and then the championship?
Will Pecco be able to take Marquez on?
An interesting fact about Jorge Martin winning the 2024 championship is that he's the first "non works" (note the quotation marks!) to win for I-don't-know--how-long, the first to jump from one manufacturer to another with the number 1 plate since Rossi when he went from honda to yamaha twenty odd years ago.
Thought peco looked really down watching some testing yesterday , be interesting to see how it goes with mark now in the garage
But the most interesting one is mav for me , love him to go really well but I’ve a feeling subject to contract it could be his last season in moto gp , didn’t think his body language was good yesterday .
But there’s definitely a lot of things to peak our interest .
But the most interesting one is mav for me , love him to go really well but I’ve a feeling subject to contract it could be his last season in moto gp , didn’t think his body language was good yesterday .
But there’s definitely a lot of things to peak our interest .
rodericb said:
Will the inline 4 engine of the Yamaha come good?
Don't be fooled by the Yamaha PR machine, The V4 will be in that bike as soon as they can. There was talk of it even making an appearance at the test this last week, but the logistics of having to equip Pramac with not just bikes but all the parts and support equipment needed to run those bikes had to take priority. rodericb said:
Will Jorge Martin make all the difference to Aprilia and get him two championships on the trot?
Two titles on the trot would be a massive ask, now up against the technical might of Ducati. Jorge will make a big difference to that package, and to have two ex Ducati riders in the box will help the team with development. How the Aprilia internal technical reshuffle works is also key to this. I don't think Jorge can fight for title in year one, but he will be regularly up there I'm sure.rodericb said:
Will Marc Marquez do Marc Marquez things and win most sprints and races and then the championship?
Will Marc do Marc things? Of course 
Can he take the title? Yep, if the tracks where he has to compromise a little with his riding technique these days don't cost him too many points.rodericb said:
Will Pecco be able to take Marquez on?
Whilst he often doesn't show it with body language, Pecco's mental strength is supreme. He won't be daunted by having Marc next to him. Remember Marc now has some additional pressure again also, after a season of riding free and easy with little expectation on him. It's going to be a fascinating match up 
bergclimber34 said:
More interesting for me are the new lads, especially Aldeguer.
And I'd add to that Pedro on the KTM, now that Aki Ajo is heading the team up. Aki is a ferocious competitor, and I think that element was somewhat lacking previously. It isn't now, and Pedro is a sublime talent. pitlane said:
Higgs boson said:
'anyone know what was up with Miller?
A reality check as to how hard Fabio was riding that bike to finish ahead of Jack in the championship basically. I wouldn't be overly surprised if that seat has a different rider in it come the end of '25.Next race she asks again...
pitlane said:
bergclimber34 said:
More interesting for me are the new lads, especially Aldeguer.
And I'd add to that Pedro on the KTM, now that Aki Ajo is heading the team up. Aki is a ferocious competitor, and I think that element was somewhat lacking previously. It isn't now, and Pedro is a sublime talent. Racing GmbH isn’t part of the restructure, but its budgets are set by groups that are.
Red Bull like to own things rather title sponsor. Look at F1, rather than plough a load of money in as a title sponsor year after year, and have no asset to show for it, they bought a team instead. That asset is now worth a crazy amount, and the sponsors they bring in to the F1 team cover a huge amount of the cost also. Win win for Red Bull. Much better business model than title sponsorship if you can get the machinery at the front.
In MotoGP they do this by currently ‘owning’ their riders rather than a team. All the riders that come through Red Bull Rookies have to sign an option with Red Bull for a number of years, if Red Bull take that option when the rider finishes Rookies is then up the business. This way they get the options of the majority of the rising stars, Acosta, Alonso etc. before anyone else .
Could it now be the time to do with bikes what they have done in F1? Own a team? It will be of massive interest to them for sure.
pitlane said:
What a change a couple of weeks make. Valera (Pedro’s manager) is purposefully making Ducati sounding noises to force some clarification on what is happening with the racing.
Racing GmbH isn’t part of the restructure, but its budgets are set by groups that are.
Red Bull like to own things rather title sponsor. Look at F1, rather than plough a load of money in as a title sponsor year after year, and have no asset to show for it, they bought a team instead. That asset is now worth a crazy amount, and the sponsors they bring in to the F1 team cover a huge amount of the cost also. Win win for Red Bull. Much better business model than title sponsorship if you can get the machinery at the front.
In MotoGP they do this by currently ‘owning’ their riders rather than a team. All the riders that come through Red Bull Rookies have to sign an option with Red Bull for a number of years, if Red Bull take that option when the rider finishes Rookies is then up the business. This way they get the options of the majority of the rising stars, Acosta, Alonso etc. before anyone else .
Could it now be the time to do with bikes what they have done in F1? Own a team? It will be of massive interest to them for sure.
The stumbling block I think is the nature of the teams in MotoGP vs. F1 in terms of business model.Racing GmbH isn’t part of the restructure, but its budgets are set by groups that are.
Red Bull like to own things rather title sponsor. Look at F1, rather than plough a load of money in as a title sponsor year after year, and have no asset to show for it, they bought a team instead. That asset is now worth a crazy amount, and the sponsors they bring in to the F1 team cover a huge amount of the cost also. Win win for Red Bull. Much better business model than title sponsorship if you can get the machinery at the front.
In MotoGP they do this by currently ‘owning’ their riders rather than a team. All the riders that come through Red Bull Rookies have to sign an option with Red Bull for a number of years, if Red Bull take that option when the rider finishes Rookies is then up the business. This way they get the options of the majority of the rising stars, Acosta, Alonso etc. before anyone else .
Could it now be the time to do with bikes what they have done in F1? Own a team? It will be of massive interest to them for sure.
At the moment, I think the rules would need to change to allow for 'customer engines' as in F1, as the chassis tech could be outsourced (Kalex for example) more easily. Then independent ownership of a MotoGP team, makes more sense, as you could have manufacturer teams and non manufacturer teams who lease an engine from a manufacturer, but develop their own chassis/frame/aero whatever.
I'm not sure the business models are quite the same as they are in F1 or the rules to allow it, and owning a MotoGP team I don't imagine would see the returns on investment that F1 does (in asset value growth for grid slots etc.).
However, I'm naive to this, so happy to hear from those who know more....
I think Red Bull would need to purchase the whole racing department, the majority of which is GP is related and Red Bull are already involved in sponsoring anyway. Whatever rules would impede such a move I'm sure Dorna could change with consent from the other participants as the alternative of losing four seats would be pretty rotten for everybody.
I'm not sure what would happen if the KTM seats vanished, Ducati only pay for four riders right now (I think, pretty certain Franky is VR46). I'm quite sure there's a large chequebook at HRC and Idemitsu could swallow Acosta on their liveried bike.
The timing of all of this is a crucial problem anyway as it looks like nothing is firm until after the 25th of February.
I'm not sure what would happen if the KTM seats vanished, Ducati only pay for four riders right now (I think, pretty certain Franky is VR46). I'm quite sure there's a large chequebook at HRC and Idemitsu could swallow Acosta on their liveried bike.
The timing of all of this is a crucial problem anyway as it looks like nothing is firm until after the 25th of February.
hiccy18 said:
Whatever rules would impede such a move I'm sure Dorna could change with consent from the other participants as the alternative of losing four seats would be pretty rotten for everybody.
Exactly this. Rules and regulations are pretty much irrelevant in this situation. It is in nobody's interest that these bikes are not on the grid. Also we are not talking about a bit of a half arsed effort at keeping them on the grid, like when Kawasaki morphed into Hayate. This is potentially Red Bull, who have colossal spending power and colossal influence.If Racing GmbH may struggle to put the bikes on the grid, and Red Bull want it, then Dorna, IRTA, and FIM will change whatever is needed to allow it. I can't even see MSMA getting in the way, as KTM would still be the key part just under a different ownership structure.
hiccy18 said:
The timing of all of this is a crucial problem anyway as it looks like nothing is firm until after the 25th of February.
Which is where it all gets interesting. The 2025 bikes need to be on track end of Jan with the test riders and early Feb with the race riders for the official tests. Then the first race weekend begins 28th Feb. There is simply no option to wait until 25th Feb for a decision on racing.I agree, rules can be changed, although the CRT rule set took a huge amount of negotiations to deliver in the face of a bigger crisis than one manufacturer leaving. There were 12 entries for the 2012 season.
It’s the return on investment, the model would have to change from its current one with associate rule changes and then it’d have to be shown to be one which would be profitable in the long run.
Red Bull like to own stuff, but they like to own stuff that returns more then they invested. They’re shrewd and calculating of course.
It’s the return on investment, the model would have to change from its current one with associate rule changes and then it’d have to be shown to be one which would be profitable in the long run.
Red Bull like to own stuff, but they like to own stuff that returns more then they invested. They’re shrewd and calculating of course.
Edited by Johno on Sunday 8th December 09:08
LARK F1 GTR said:
I also hope that Alonso does well in Moto 2.
I think he will. A lot is made of the bike differences but if you dig in to it a bit a lot of the Moto3 superstars who've sunk in Moto2 had gotten by on talent alone then been exposed when the other side (technical feedback, mental strength, training/commitment etc.) is needed more as they go up the ladder. By all reports Alonso has his head screwed on straight and that'll do him well.2ndclasscitizen said:
LARK F1 GTR said:
I also hope that Alonso does well in Moto 2.
I think he will. A lot is made of the bike differences but if you dig in to it a bit a lot of the Moto3 superstars who've sunk in Moto2 had gotten by on talent alone then been exposed when the other side (technical feedback, mental strength, training/commitment etc.) is needed more as they go up the ladder. By all reports Alonso has his head screwed on straight and that'll do him well.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff