Discussion
Hi all,
Having issues with a radiator/radiators in the house and wondering if anybody can offer assistance, my next door neighbour is a plumber/boiler fitter and he actually fitted the boiler a few years ago for the previous owner, but hes a pain in the rear to get hold of, when he gets home at night, if you knock on the door you get the wife and hes not available.
We have a 3 storey house, the boiler is downstairs in the utility room, there is a big water tank upstairs on the 3rd floor. Downstairs is freezing compared to the rest of the house, My plan was to leave downstairs radiators on "5" and upstairs on "2"
Last year when the heating kicked in, I noticed that only the top floor was getting hot, quick Google and came across a video on how to check your heater pump, I followed the video, unscrewed the big screw and turned the turbine manually. A few minutes later whole house is getting hot, happy days.
12 months later, same issue some of the radiators getting hot, some of them not, so I manually turned the pump again just in case it had become stuck. This has somewhat solved the issue but not fully. Its a bit sporadic as to which radiators aren't working somedays it was the upstairs ones, then downstairs, then a mix. They now seem to have settled and the same two are the offenders now.
The situation now is, the two radiators on the ground floor at the front of the house aren't working, they aren't stone cold but not even luke warm. These two are the ones sat near the thermostat (Hive). Over the last week they have been getting hot, but the last two days dont seem to want to play anymore.
The dining room one, the pipe work next to the valve (1-2-3-4-5 valve) is hot but the radiator is luke warm at best. The hallway one, the pipework next to the valve is stone cold, the piperwork at the other end is warm but the radiator is almost stone cold, its as if the valve is on the wrong end of the radiator.
I have bled all the radiators several times during the last few days, the boiler doesn't have a pressure gauge on it.
What do we reckon? air stuck somewhere?
Below is the radiator that I think has the valve on the wrong end, end 2 pipework is hot, but 1 is cold.
At some point, the previous owner removed the big radiator from the hallway and has just left the secondary small radiator so I think it needs replacing with a higher rated one. The neighbours across the road have the same layout and have two radiators in the hallway.
I have text the next door neighbour but chances of getting him round for a few mins are slim.
Having issues with a radiator/radiators in the house and wondering if anybody can offer assistance, my next door neighbour is a plumber/boiler fitter and he actually fitted the boiler a few years ago for the previous owner, but hes a pain in the rear to get hold of, when he gets home at night, if you knock on the door you get the wife and hes not available.
We have a 3 storey house, the boiler is downstairs in the utility room, there is a big water tank upstairs on the 3rd floor. Downstairs is freezing compared to the rest of the house, My plan was to leave downstairs radiators on "5" and upstairs on "2"
Last year when the heating kicked in, I noticed that only the top floor was getting hot, quick Google and came across a video on how to check your heater pump, I followed the video, unscrewed the big screw and turned the turbine manually. A few minutes later whole house is getting hot, happy days.
12 months later, same issue some of the radiators getting hot, some of them not, so I manually turned the pump again just in case it had become stuck. This has somewhat solved the issue but not fully. Its a bit sporadic as to which radiators aren't working somedays it was the upstairs ones, then downstairs, then a mix. They now seem to have settled and the same two are the offenders now.
The situation now is, the two radiators on the ground floor at the front of the house aren't working, they aren't stone cold but not even luke warm. These two are the ones sat near the thermostat (Hive). Over the last week they have been getting hot, but the last two days dont seem to want to play anymore.
The dining room one, the pipe work next to the valve (1-2-3-4-5 valve) is hot but the radiator is luke warm at best. The hallway one, the pipework next to the valve is stone cold, the piperwork at the other end is warm but the radiator is almost stone cold, its as if the valve is on the wrong end of the radiator.
I have bled all the radiators several times during the last few days, the boiler doesn't have a pressure gauge on it.
What do we reckon? air stuck somewhere?
Below is the radiator that I think has the valve on the wrong end, end 2 pipework is hot, but 1 is cold.
At some point, the previous owner removed the big radiator from the hallway and has just left the secondary small radiator so I think it needs replacing with a higher rated one. The neighbours across the road have the same layout and have two radiators in the hallway.
I have text the next door neighbour but chances of getting him round for a few mins are slim.
A plumber will explain it more succinctly, but you need to adjust the hot water flow between the boiler and the last radiator in the line by balancing the temps between the inlet valve and thermo valve pipes, using an infrared thermometer.
Google balancing radiators for a suitable how to YouTube video.
Google balancing radiators for a suitable how to YouTube video.
Or just look in the "stickies" at the top of this forum.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ok so the trv the one with 1-5 on it only controls the temp in the room it wont make it heat up more it just stops it going over temp the one with the white knob is the lockshield valve that sets how much flow goes through the rad and in turn how much heat it gives out
suggestion is close the lockshield down fully on all rads except the not working ones and open its lockshield fully do they now get hot?
if yes then the rads are fine and its quite possibly down to balancing but also possibly the pump is turned down too low or a valve thats sticking i assume you have each floor zoned ie you can have a different temp on each floor?
often the lockshields are just left fully open by people that dont understand and all that does is alow the hot water to go the quickest way back to the boiler it can reallyalot of valve need to be only open like a 1/4 of a turn and then the further away you get the slightly more open they get to try balance the amount of water going through them
suggestion is close the lockshield down fully on all rads except the not working ones and open its lockshield fully do they now get hot?
if yes then the rads are fine and its quite possibly down to balancing but also possibly the pump is turned down too low or a valve thats sticking i assume you have each floor zoned ie you can have a different temp on each floor?
often the lockshields are just left fully open by people that dont understand and all that does is alow the hot water to go the quickest way back to the boiler it can reallyalot of valve need to be only open like a 1/4 of a turn and then the further away you get the slightly more open they get to try balance the amount of water going through them
As above.
You need to balance your radiators.
You need to pop the white cap off valve 2.
There will be a brass turn screw that will be stiff but turnable with a set of pliers.
Turn the screw quarter of a turn only.
You shouldnt need to turn it more than 1 or 2 quarter turns to sort the flow.
You need to balance your radiators.
You need to pop the white cap off valve 2.
There will be a brass turn screw that will be stiff but turnable with a set of pliers.
Turn the screw quarter of a turn only.
You shouldnt need to turn it more than 1 or 2 quarter turns to sort the flow.
the-norseman said:
Cheers guys will do some investigation and reading.
I think one of the TRV's is broken, I dont think the pin inside the actual TRV is working properly so not pressing/depressing the metal pin.
if thats stuck down it will never heat up I think one of the TRV's is broken, I dont think the pin inside the actual TRV is working properly so not pressing/depressing the metal pin.
so remove the trv heads on all the rads too, really you dont need them set any higher than 3 usually thats normally about 21c ish I'm turned the heating off now so they all go cold, going to follow this guide from the sticky
LookAtMyCat on another thread said:
I balance 2-3 systems a week. I make good money out of the fact that hardly any other heating guys seem to know what it is or how to do it.
Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
I've seen another guide on Youtube where the chap uses a thermal camera, might invest in a plugin one for phone (good for childrens temps as well)Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
the-norseman said:
Cheers guys will do some investigation and reading.
I think one of the TRV's is broken, I dont think the pin inside the actual TRV is working properly so not pressing/depressing the metal pin.
For those TRV's which seem 'stuck', remove the plastic TRV head off the valve body completely and using something pliers or grips, carefully push/pull the pin up and down to exercise it / free it up. (don't bend it!). It doesn't take much heating system 'gunk' to foul these up.I think one of the TRV's is broken, I dont think the pin inside the actual TRV is working properly so not pressing/depressing the metal pin.
However, looking at the bigger picture, as others have eluded to, it sounds like the system want's rebalancing for scratch. If the pump is fouling up, it may also want draining/flushing and possibly a new pump if it's not happy.
the-norseman said:
I'm turned the heating off now so they all go cold, going to follow this guide from the sticky
Wish I'd have seen this guide a week or two ago.LookAtMyCat on another thread said:
I balance 2-3 systems a week. I make good money out of the fact that hardly any other heating guys seem to know what it is or how to do it.
Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
I've seen another guide on Youtube where the chap uses a thermal camera, might invest in a plugin one for phone (good for childrens temps as well)Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
Had almost exactly the same symptoms as OP and trying to get a plumber round was more difficult than getting a doctors appointment (why advertise your services and then never answer calls or respond to messages - anyway that's another thread!).
After a couple of weeks decided to investigate myself and went through loads of YouTube videos. I. In the end it was a mixture of the boiler pressure being slightly low and that all the rads needed balancing. Not a quick job but fairly straightforward if you take your time.
Mine are all good now and pleased I didn't have to line the pocket of a plumber (no disrespect to any plumbers who actually offer the courteousy of a reply)
Richtea1970 said:
the-norseman said:
I'm turned the heating off now so they all go cold, going to follow this guide from the sticky
Wish I'd have seen this guide a week or two ago.LookAtMyCat on another thread said:
I balance 2-3 systems a week. I make good money out of the fact that hardly any other heating guys seem to know what it is or how to do it.
Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
I've seen another guide on Youtube where the chap uses a thermal camera, might invest in a plugin one for phone (good for childrens temps as well)Open all TRVs fully (or one side of towel rails etc)
Close down all lockshields to 1/8 turn from closed.
Turn boiler flow temp down to 40 degrees.
Turn heating on.
Rads that start to warm up leave alone.
Rads that don't, open lockshield another 1/8 turn.
Repeat until all rads warm.
Increase flow temp to 50 degrees.
Repeat process. Then increase to 60 then 70.
Job jobbed. Balanced a 20 rad system this morning in less than an hour. They had 2 other 'engineers' round who couldn't get 4 of the rads hot. I left with all 20-odd rads piping hot.
Had almost exactly the same symptoms as OP and trying to get a plumber round was more difficult than getting a doctors appointment (why advertise your services and then never answer calls or respond to messages - anyway that's another thread!).
After a couple of weeks decided to investigate myself and went through loads of YouTube videos. I. In the end it was a mixture of the boiler pressure being slightly low and that all the rads needed balancing. Not a quick job but fairly straightforward if you take your time.
Mine are all good now and pleased I didn't have to line the pocket of a plumber (no disrespect to any plumbers who actually offer the courteousy of a reply)
Always worth testing your central heating about a week or two before the real cold weather sets in.
Right so all the radiators went cold nice and quickly, so followed the guide.
Third floor are now red hot, second floor are now red hot, first floor however is worse than before.
I've put a layout below to identify, red markings are red hot radiators, amber is warm, blue cold and the light purple is where a radiator was that has been capped off.
I'm guessing one of the radiators on the 1st floor needs its valve opening a bit more to flow to the amber one in the cloak room? any ideas which one? All of the pipework goes into the walls to cant follow it.
Anyway off to pick the 2.5 year old up from the child minder.. going to be a long night playing with these radiators.
Third floor are now red hot, second floor are now red hot, first floor however is worse than before.
I've put a layout below to identify, red markings are red hot radiators, amber is warm, blue cold and the light purple is where a radiator was that has been capped off.
I'm guessing one of the radiators on the 1st floor needs its valve opening a bit more to flow to the amber one in the cloak room? any ideas which one? All of the pipework goes into the walls to cant follow it.
Anyway off to pick the 2.5 year old up from the child minder.. going to be a long night playing with these radiators.
the-norseman said:
Nope, just a Hive on the ground floor.
All the radiators have been working at some point in the last week or so, some better than others hence the bleeding.
Whats the boiler pressure?All the radiators have been working at some point in the last week or so, some better than others hence the bleeding.
You will need 1-1.5 bar for it to work.
You might have bled the pressure out of the system.
For some strange reason boiler doesn't have a pressure gauge that is visible, its a Worcester Greenstar, going to investigate this later.
I however do have all of the radiators working now! lockshields on floors 2 & 3 set to a quarter open and the TRV set to 3. Ground floor TRV set to 5 and all the lockshields set to open at moment, will close them off slowly to balance.
Going to get a heat camera to do it properly as well.
I however do have all of the radiators working now! lockshields on floors 2 & 3 set to a quarter open and the TRV set to 3. Ground floor TRV set to 5 and all the lockshields set to open at moment, will close them off slowly to balance.
Going to get a heat camera to do it properly as well.
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