German automotive, being German...
Discussion
https://newatlas.com/automotive/mercedes-reinvents...
Another German 'Lifetime' solution, nein danke.
It'll no doubt require 15 years worth of refinement or be dropped within 5 years.
I'll wait for the Chinese or Japanese to come up with something if needed.
Another German 'Lifetime' solution, nein danke.
It'll no doubt require 15 years worth of refinement or be dropped within 5 years.
I'll wait for the Chinese or Japanese to come up with something if needed.
There's plenty of merit in this idea if it can be made to work reliably. No maintenance, less unsprung mass, no brake dust and so on.
But I suspect this will be the same as "sealed for life gearboxes" etc. which needed regular oil changes like all the others. If you did need to maintain in drivetrain brakes that would be a major PITA, and if the cooling circuit failed could be catastrophic.
But I suspect this will be the same as "sealed for life gearboxes" etc. which needed regular oil changes like all the others. If you did need to maintain in drivetrain brakes that would be a major PITA, and if the cooling circuit failed could be catastrophic.
There is a real problem with brake discs on EVs going rusty through disuse. And the collection of brake dust is a good response to the next round of hand-wringing by the professional Chicken Littles of this world.
So while I can certainly see this being Mercedes' new Sensotronic limited-life brakes, I can also see a lot of upside by whoever can make it reliable.
Not sure why it couldnt be more reliable, its not like brake disks, calipers and pads dont need fairly regular fettling, partly as they are slung out there in the elements being alternately cooked and cooled.
You would lose four calipers, four disks, ABS module and several metres of brake lines and hoses that all tend to go crusty after a couple of years, replaced with one brake per drive unit neatly housed away. Yes it makes servicing more difficult but it should need it, thats the clincher.
Friction brakes are largely redundant on EVs most of the time, think this could be a good solution, that saves a little weight. I would hope it means that the braking system lasts the life of the car, one less thing that needs regular attention.
Seems weird to just write it off before its even released.
One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
You would lose four calipers, four disks, ABS module and several metres of brake lines and hoses that all tend to go crusty after a couple of years, replaced with one brake per drive unit neatly housed away. Yes it makes servicing more difficult but it should need it, thats the clincher.
Friction brakes are largely redundant on EVs most of the time, think this could be a good solution, that saves a little weight. I would hope it means that the braking system lasts the life of the car, one less thing that needs regular attention.
Seems weird to just write it off before its even released.
One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
J4CKO said:
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One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
Straightforward enough to pop an exciter/reluctor ring somewhere near a wheel or on an axle or driveshaft. Could house them as part of the motor or similar to stop them going scummy, too. One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
Innovation is great, and brake dust pollution was one of those things that both ends of the anti-EV spectrum (Petrol heads one end, anti-car lobby the other) started shouting about.
but "According to Mercedes, the in-drive brake system shouldn't require servicing for the life of the vehicle" how many times have we heard that before. It's code for the "massive bill for the 3rd owner, but we don't sell used cars".
but "According to Mercedes, the in-drive brake system shouldn't require servicing for the life of the vehicle" how many times have we heard that before. It's code for the "massive bill for the 3rd owner, but we don't sell used cars".
J4CKO said:
One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
I don't see anything about it being one braking set per axle, it says that the device is on the output driveshaft, so you'd have one for each driven wheel.It's an interesting idea and it has promise I just don't trust European manufacturers to develop it to the point that it is robust and cheap to service for a decent vehicle life. They still can't get "keep the oil inside the engine" right.
Baldchap said:
J4CKO said:
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One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
Straightforward enough to pop an exciter/reluctor ring somewhere near a wheel or on an axle or driveshaft. Could house them as part of the motor or similar to stop them going scummy, too. One negative thought I had, is how do they then implement ESP if the braking is done across an axle, rather than on a per wheel basis ?
Ok, was thinking it looked like one brake per drive unit, but that wouldnt make sense when you weigh it up.
I would hope it would last the life of the vehicle, as we know the friction brakes on EVs hardly get used so it does bode well for its longevity. They also need to make it at least reasonable accessible.
I wouldnt assume it is doomed to failure, in principle its a great idea, as long as the execution is decent then it should work well, would be happier if it was say Lexus trialling it though.
I do think that if brake dust can be captured like that its a good thing, I do find it a bit strange that some petrolheads complain about EV tyre and brake emissions as ICE cars do that, plus exhaust emissions, and the brake dust will be worse as you dont have one or two big electric motors to do most of the retardation, never see much brake dust on EV wheels.
I do wonder what mechanics will be doing if servicing has largely gone, and this could mean brakes dont need any work. Only leaves suspension work and cabin filters really, though someone will cite the yearly 12 grand battery replacement all EVs require of course.
I would hope it would last the life of the vehicle, as we know the friction brakes on EVs hardly get used so it does bode well for its longevity. They also need to make it at least reasonable accessible.
I wouldnt assume it is doomed to failure, in principle its a great idea, as long as the execution is decent then it should work well, would be happier if it was say Lexus trialling it though.
I do think that if brake dust can be captured like that its a good thing, I do find it a bit strange that some petrolheads complain about EV tyre and brake emissions as ICE cars do that, plus exhaust emissions, and the brake dust will be worse as you dont have one or two big electric motors to do most of the retardation, never see much brake dust on EV wheels.
I do wonder what mechanics will be doing if servicing has largely gone, and this could mean brakes dont need any work. Only leaves suspension work and cabin filters really, though someone will cite the yearly 12 grand battery replacement all EVs require of course.
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