Job reference response, applicant is a raging alcoholic

[Caddyshack]

Hi Guys,

I have known a chap for over 20 years. He has asked me for a reference as he will be working in people's homes as a wren kitchen designer. The last 5 years has seen him lose a few jobs for being drunk at work and for the last 5 years each interaction with him has seen him slurring and obviously drunk. His wife has kicked him out the house a number of times and his children moved out due to his drinking.


I feel I should warn the new employer? Can I do this?

He phoned me to ask me to provide a reference and I said I did not want to but did not say why, he was so drunk on the phone that he didn't really notice anyway.

Thoughts?

[bristolracer]

How is going to get to customers houses?
On a push bike?

You know the answer
His alcoholism is about to cost him a friendship

[Alex_225]

Caddyshack said:

He phoned me to ask me to provide a reference and I said I did not want to but did not say why, he was so drunk on the phone that he didn't really notice anyway.

I think the fact that he was even drunk when asking you is valid enough for you to explain why you don't feel it would be fair of you to give him the reference.

How you get that across to him I can't advise. I mean it may be an awkward conversation I'd imagine. He's clearly troubled and addicted, you would hope that seeing as how his life has fallen apart in other areas he wouldn't be shocked by you saying this. But he may be annoyed.

[skyebear]

Give him a reference and post up his kitchen designs.

[Boringvolvodriver]

My view is that you are going to have to decline to give a reference for him - if, and from you say maybe you won’t, you do get a request from Wren, then you have 2 choices.

1. Ignore it or say you never received it - I was once waiting for a friend to give me a reference and the organization concerned failed to send it!

2. If it is received, then reply along the lines of “ I am sorry that I am unwilling to give a reference”

Either way, your friend will fall out with you or maybe work out that he needs to stop drinking.

[Caddyshack]

Boringvolvodriver said:

My view is that you are going to have to decline to give a reference for him - if, and from you say maybe you won’t, you do get a request from Wren, then you have 2 choices.

1. Ignore it or say you never received it - I was once waiting for a friend to give me a reference and the organization concerned failed to send it!

2. If it is received, then reply along the lines of “ I am sorry that I am unwilling to give a reference”

Either way, your friend will fall out with you or maybe work out that he needs to stop drinking.

I have got the request for a reference from Wren today.

I feel I should warn Wren that this will only ever lead to him having a problem.

I do not mind losing any friendship or relationship with him. I assumed he would have died by now to be honest so kind of said my mental goodbyes. I dealt with him on a business level when I helped him buy some properties years ago.

[Caddyshack]

skyebear said:

Give him a reference and post up his kitchen designs.

[Rockets7]

Tell him your current role prohibits you from promoting others via references so you cannot help.

[Caddyshack]

I wonder what happens if I write in the section about character "Strictly Confidential - must not be shared with Mr X - he is struggling with alcohol addiction" OR something such as "he has been drunk the last 5 times I have spoken to him"

I do not want to end up with a legal issue but equally - I can tell they are going to be in a world of pain with him.

None of his family are speaking to him, he lost his business and lost the last few jobs he had

[wolf1]

"Nice chap and always up for a tipple day or night"

Regards
Caddyshack

[Caddyshack]

Rockets7 said:

Tell him your current role prohibits you from promoting others via references so you cannot help.

I am not worried about what to say to him, it is the fact that I have the reference here to complete.


I am an employer and if I was about to employ a problem I would like the person that I have asked for a reference to tell me - kind of the point of references but as we are now all worried about everything I expect I cannot help them dodge this bullet?

[GiantEnemyCrab]

It is as simple as when Wren email 'I am not willing to provide a reference and would rather you not tell this to Mr X'.

Bosh. Its not MI5.

[PV7998]

I would think that if you simply write back to Wren saying that you are declining to give him a reference, that should tell them enough without you having to be explicit.

[andy ted]

Is there a number to call them at all?

[Simpo Two]

PV7998 said:

I would think that if you simply write back to Wren saying that you are declining to give him a reference, that should tell them enough without you having to be explicit.

This. It's up to them to work out the rest.

[Countdown]

You have 3 options, depending on how much you value his friendship;

1. "Sorry mate, you're a raging alcoholic and, as a member of the Church, I have to be completely honest"
2. "Yes no problem mate" and then provide a completely honest written reference
3. "Yes no problem mate" then provide a bland non-committal reference, ring the Hiring Manager and verbally tell him what he's like

[Arrivalist]

Caddyshack said:

skyebear said:

Give him a reference and post up his kitchen designs.

He sounds perfect for Wren Kitchens.

[pavarotti1980]

Does the reference allow free text or are they asking specific questions?

Does your current employer have a policy on reference provision and a pro-forma response? If so use that and avoid any problems

Or refuse and ask them not to disclose it to the applicant. That will be a red flag and they can proceed how they like after that

[Jazoli]

Countdown said:

You have 3 options, depending on how much you value his friendship;

1. "Sorry mate, you're a raging alcoholic and, as a member of the Church, I have to be completely honest"
2. "Yes no problem mate" and then provide a completely honest written reference
3. "Yes no problem mate" then provide a bland non-committal reference, ring the Hiring Manager and verbally tell him what he's like

I did option 3 when faced with a similar situation, I'd fired the employee for being drunk on duty, he then put me as a reference, the job he applied for was driving the school minibus picking up kids!!

[romeogolf]

Would his alcoholism present a risk to the customer? Does he behave inappropriately when drunk, offensively or aggressively? Would his on-going lack of employment help or hinder any recovery? Have you spoken to him about his alcoholism, raised your concerns, and asked him in seriousness if he wants help to get better?

My thought process is that this isn't a job where being drunk would have any damaging effect beyond a poor reputation for the company and/or poor quality of work. He's not driving a vehicle, operating machinery, installing the cabinets, working in healthcare, doing complicated/critical calculations etc.

I would assume your best hope is that he can get a better grip on his addiction and/or any underlying problems and realistically being unemployed is unlikely to aid that.

So I would write a reference as requested and speak to your friend about it. Let him know the seriousness of the issue, spell it out very clearly to him that he needs to change, needs help, and you're willing to support him but won't do so forever. His response to that will dictate the future of any friendship.