Does this kitchen renovation price sound reasonable?
Discussion
Hi folks. We're renovating our kitchen which is 5 x 5 meters in size, 1930s semi, south east. Whilst i'm happy with the cost of the cabinetry itself, the cost for certain aspects of the work (ie install/ electrics) seem a bit high, but it's proving difficult to get multiple quotes.
It's a price group 1 leicht kitchen we're going for. Still deciding on appliances. Does this sound crazy expensive to you german kitchen experts, or pretty much par for the course for the size of our kitchen?
Install/Electrics 14400 (this includes new spot lights, sockets, and a new consumer unit, 1m square of ceiling lowering, painting of kitchen, power to all appliances)
Cabinets 22981.2 (leicht price group one)
Worktops 6915.6
Flooring 3696
Sinks 609.6
Appliances tbc
It's a price group 1 leicht kitchen we're going for. Still deciding on appliances. Does this sound crazy expensive to you german kitchen experts, or pretty much par for the course for the size of our kitchen?
Install/Electrics 14400 (this includes new spot lights, sockets, and a new consumer unit, 1m square of ceiling lowering, painting of kitchen, power to all appliances)
Cabinets 22981.2 (leicht price group one)
Worktops 6915.6
Flooring 3696
Sinks 609.6
Appliances tbc
Edited by caymanbill on Tuesday 3rd December 21:07
Edited by caymanbill on Tuesday 3rd December 21:14
Harpoon said:
Can you provide more detail on the spec?
For instance, the worktops might be terrible value if it's finest 1970s Formica but could be great value it's the best Italian marble hand polished with unicorn tears...
Yeah sure, so the worktops are:For instance, the worktops might be terrible value if it's finest 1970s Formica but could be great value it's the best Italian marble hand polished with unicorn tears...
Worktop 20mm Cimstone 'clacatta venato' inc
template and install, SPR edge detail,
undermount sink cut out, tap hole,
hob/extractor flush fit cut out and upstands.
That's mainly to cover a 4m run, and an island unit at approx 2.3 x 1.5
Edited by caymanbill on Tuesday 3rd December 21:16
ATG said:
It's always worth considering how many man-hours of a joiner or cabinet maker's time one of these budgets accommodates. It's months.
I’ve just spent the last ten months renovating and installing our kitchen. If I could have paid £14,400 for all the install and labour I’d have bitten their hand off!For the few bits I didn’t do myself I paid roughly £100/m for mid-range Amtico and fitting and £6k for low-mid range quartz worktops (3m x 1.1m island and about 8m of wall runs).
Can you show the designs of the kitchen?
My initial thought is that it seems incredibly expensive for the Leicht cabinets, especially for the entry level price group.
They have increased in price since our first one (top price group doors) purchased in 2018 by circa 30-40%, but that doesn't account for such a large difference in a 5x5m room.
My initial thought is that it seems incredibly expensive for the Leicht cabinets, especially for the entry level price group.
They have increased in price since our first one (top price group doors) purchased in 2018 by circa 30-40%, but that doesn't account for such a large difference in a 5x5m room.
Edited by -Ad- on Tuesday 3rd December 21:50
-Ad- said:
Can you show the designs of the kitchen?
My initial thought is that it seems incredibly expensive for the Leicht cabinets, especially for the entry level price group.
They have increased in price since our first one (top price group doors) purchased in 2018 by circa 30-40%, but that doesn't account for such a large difference in a 5x5m room.
yeah sure, here's a rough plan - it's missing about two meters worth of low cabinets in the top right next to the island. the long run on the left is hiding a door to a small utility room. (no work on the utility or the pantry btw)My initial thought is that it seems incredibly expensive for the Leicht cabinets, especially for the entry level price group.
They have increased in price since our first one (top price group doors) purchased in 2018 by circa 30-40%, but that doesn't account for such a large difference in a 5x5m room.
Edited by -Ad- on Tuesday 3rd December 21:50
caymanbill said:
Hi folks. We're renovating our kitchen which is 5 x 5 meters in size, 1930s semi, south east. Whilst i'm happy with the cost of the cabinetry itself, the cost for certain aspects of the work (ie install/ electrics) seem a bit high, but it's proving difficult to get multiple quotes.
So your quote is around £50k without appliances. For our kitchen below with quartz work tops, cost was £34k for the kitchen without appliances from a local independent shop. Another £3k for flooring, and another £600 for electrics.
Looking at your drawings it doesn't look like you have as many units as us, so would seem like your quote is in the higher range but our invoice was generated 2 years ago and prices have continued to go up. It maybe worth while asking someone like Wren to give you a quote so you can compare, which is what we did. Wren actually quoted more than what the independent quoted!!
Am surprised no one has yet suggest you DIY it all yourself
.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 4th December 06:05
Crumpet said:
I’ve just spent the last ten months renovating and installing our kitchen. If I could have paid £14,400 for all the install and labour I’d have bitten their hand off!
For the few bits I didn’t do myself I paid roughly £100/m for mid-range Amtico and fitting and £6k for low-mid range quartz worktops (3m x 1.1m island and about 8m of wall runs).
Fair play. TBH i know i wouldn't have the skills required to do the job to a high standard, so happy to pay whatever the going rate is for anywork, it's just that im not sure what the going rate is.For the few bits I didn’t do myself I paid roughly £100/m for mid-range Amtico and fitting and £6k for low-mid range quartz worktops (3m x 1.1m island and about 8m of wall runs).
gangzoom said:
So your quote is around £50k without appliances.
For our kitchen below with quartz work tops, cost was £34k for the kitchen without appliances from a local independent shop. Another £3k for flooring, and another £600 for electrics.
Looking at your drawings it doesn't look like you have as many units as us, so would seem like your quote is in the higher range but our invoice was generated 2 years ago and prices have continued to go up. It maybe worth while asking someone like Wren to give you a quote so you can compare, which is what we did. Wren actually quoted more than what the independent quoted!!
Am surprised no one has yet suggest you DIY it all yourself.
ha, yeah no chance i could DIY it. Your plans look great.For our kitchen below with quartz work tops, cost was £34k for the kitchen without appliances from a local independent shop. Another £3k for flooring, and another £600 for electrics.
Looking at your drawings it doesn't look like you have as many units as us, so would seem like your quote is in the higher range but our invoice was generated 2 years ago and prices have continued to go up. It maybe worth while asking someone like Wren to give you a quote so you can compare, which is what we did. Wren actually quoted more than what the independent quoted!!
Am surprised no one has yet suggest you DIY it all yourself
.Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 4th December 06:05
caymanbill said:
Fair play. TBH i know i wouldn't have the skills required to do the job to a high standard, so happy to pay whatever the going rate is for anywork, it's just that im not sure what the going rate is.
Unless they break down the fitting and labour bill you’re really going to struggle to work out if it’s fair. South East might be pushing £300 a day per man so that could be around 40 days of labour and maybe £2k of consumables - or, indeed, any other combination you can think of. For context I spent about 90 days on mine but some of that was spent learning new skills or generally not being as efficient as a pro and I do take about ten tea breaks a day. A massive chunk of the time was spent on stuff you wouldn’t need to do on a normal kitchen refit (including hand painting 28 cabinets!!) so I’d guess the standard stuff maybe took me 30 days or so including the plumbing and electrics. You can quite quickly rip through many hundreds of pounds of cabling, masking tape, jigsaw blades so the costs do add up.
That being said, for a 5x5 room (mine was an 11m x 4m kitchen with a 2m x 5m pantry) I reckon it would be a lot less work and time and so £14k sounds a bit on the steep side.
For further context, my 28 units were £18k and I think in total I’ll have spent £40k; it’s amazing how fast the small stuff starts to add up. I’m sure you have but make sure you’ve budgeted for absolutely everything as I overran by about £10k!
caymanbill said:
yeah sure, here's a rough plan - it's missing about two meters worth of low cabinets in the top right next to the island. the long run on the left is hiding a door to a small utility room. (no work on the utility or the pantry btw)
Thanks for that, any renders you can show?Even from those plans, the price is truly mad. Even the worktops look really expensive, but I could be out of touch with those.
Here's our one where the units were £14k ish. Without the corten island it would have been nearer £11k. The tall corner is massive Le Mans (£2k on it's own), then lots of drwaers on the islands.
Panamax said:
Kitchen and bathroom people quote comedy prices, as you've discovered.
However, unless you can find someone else to do it cheaper what can you say? "Trades" are completely taking the p155 these days.
You could take time off work and fit it yourself if you think a trade person is taking the piss ? However, unless you can find someone else to do it cheaper what can you say? "Trades" are completely taking the p155 these days.
Nothing useful to add other than both those kitchens look stunning.
I mostly diyed ours over ten years ago - the prices quoted here are terrifying.
There is a middle ground - doing the plumbing and fitting the units yourself could save some money, then get pros in for the electrics, worktops and flooring. I just had tops and tiling done by professionals.
On ours, the full quartz slab island top cracked after a few months as the ‘pros’ had used an angle grinder to cut the downdraft extractor hole. The pros admitted it was their piss poor chop job plus sunlight causing expansion on one edge of the Island and not the support of my units that caused the failure so they replaced it almost free of charge. I redecorated myself.
Then the pro tiled floor fell to bits. The tiler had emigrated by that point.
There could be a theme here..
Spending fifty grand I’d be watching them like a hawk, and I’d only allow them to start after I’d learnt how to do every single bit of the process on YouTube and interviewed previous clients under police caution
I mostly diyed ours over ten years ago - the prices quoted here are terrifying.
There is a middle ground - doing the plumbing and fitting the units yourself could save some money, then get pros in for the electrics, worktops and flooring. I just had tops and tiling done by professionals.
On ours, the full quartz slab island top cracked after a few months as the ‘pros’ had used an angle grinder to cut the downdraft extractor hole. The pros admitted it was their piss poor chop job plus sunlight causing expansion on one edge of the Island and not the support of my units that caused the failure so they replaced it almost free of charge. I redecorated myself.
Then the pro tiled floor fell to bits. The tiler had emigrated by that point.
There could be a theme here..
Spending fifty grand I’d be watching them like a hawk, and I’d only allow them to start after I’d learnt how to do every single bit of the process on YouTube and interviewed previous clients under police caution
None of the individual tasks is particularly hard.
It’s just very slow to DIY if you’re learning as you go, plus buying new tools as needed, or sourcing nice bits at good prices (rather than, just buying whatever you want at whatever prices they are).
But yeah, I was doing my front door sill the other day. All afternoon arsing around getting it as perfect as I could considering no access to table routers and abundant quality oak nearby, and the bodge build that’d been completed around it.
Utterly annoying, frustrating, slow, felt like a bodge.
For a door sill. Around my actual job. And freezing house with kids due home and needing to start food.
Imagine doing your entire kitchen DIY like that with all the unknowns you don’t know about till it’s stripped back.
In the end, 90% of the work is arguably easy DIY and problem free.
But trying to get pros in to do the troublesome work, exactly when you need them, then disappear once it’s sorted, is impossible.
So you end up with the two extremes.
High priced and gets done, or low priced and takes you ages, more so if you’re a perfectionist.
Also personally I wouldn’t do £5,000+ stone type worktops DIY.
Imagine getting that wrong. Oops.
It’s just very slow to DIY if you’re learning as you go, plus buying new tools as needed, or sourcing nice bits at good prices (rather than, just buying whatever you want at whatever prices they are).
But yeah, I was doing my front door sill the other day. All afternoon arsing around getting it as perfect as I could considering no access to table routers and abundant quality oak nearby, and the bodge build that’d been completed around it.
Utterly annoying, frustrating, slow, felt like a bodge.
For a door sill. Around my actual job. And freezing house with kids due home and needing to start food.
Imagine doing your entire kitchen DIY like that with all the unknowns you don’t know about till it’s stripped back.
In the end, 90% of the work is arguably easy DIY and problem free.
But trying to get pros in to do the troublesome work, exactly when you need them, then disappear once it’s sorted, is impossible.
So you end up with the two extremes.
High priced and gets done, or low priced and takes you ages, more so if you’re a perfectionist.
Also personally I wouldn’t do £5,000+ stone type worktops DIY.
Imagine getting that wrong. Oops.
Mr Whippy said:
None of the individual tasks is particularly hard.
It’s just very slow to DIY if you’re learning as you go, plus buying new tools as needed, or sourcing nice bits at good prices (rather than, just buying whatever you want at whatever prices they are).
But yeah, I was doing my front door sill the other day. All afternoon arsing around getting it as perfect as I could considering no access to table routers and abundant quality oak nearby, and the bodge build that’d been completed around it.
Utterly annoying, frustrating, slow, felt like a bodge.
For a door sill. Around my actual job. And freezing house with kids due home and needing to start food.
Imagine doing your entire kitchen DIY like that with all the unknowns you don’t know about till it’s stripped back.
In the end, 90% of the work is arguably easy DIY and problem free.
But trying to get pros in to do the troublesome work, exactly when you need them, then disappear once it’s sorted, is impossible.
So you end up with the two extremes.
High priced and gets done, or low priced and takes you ages, more so if you’re a perfectionist.
Also personally I wouldn’t do £5,000+ stone type worktops DIY.
Imagine getting that wrong. Oops.
This is all very true. I know the OP isn’t considering DIY but if the fitting cost is all-in and includes allowing for any unknowns after the old one is ripped out then the price might actually be ok. It’s just very slow to DIY if you’re learning as you go, plus buying new tools as needed, or sourcing nice bits at good prices (rather than, just buying whatever you want at whatever prices they are).
But yeah, I was doing my front door sill the other day. All afternoon arsing around getting it as perfect as I could considering no access to table routers and abundant quality oak nearby, and the bodge build that’d been completed around it.
Utterly annoying, frustrating, slow, felt like a bodge.
For a door sill. Around my actual job. And freezing house with kids due home and needing to start food.
Imagine doing your entire kitchen DIY like that with all the unknowns you don’t know about till it’s stripped back.
In the end, 90% of the work is arguably easy DIY and problem free.
But trying to get pros in to do the troublesome work, exactly when you need them, then disappear once it’s sorted, is impossible.
So you end up with the two extremes.
High priced and gets done, or low priced and takes you ages, more so if you’re a perfectionist.
Also personally I wouldn’t do £5,000+ stone type worktops DIY.
Imagine getting that wrong. Oops.
After I pulled mine out I found the subfloor had epic levels of bounce and the professionally done plumbing was anything but professional. Simply getting the room to a blank canvas with first fix plumbing and electrics in place took me three months. I genuinely don’t know how professionals could allow for that without over quoting in the first place and trying to get trades in as and when needed to rectify these things would be an utter ball ache.
I also saw some horrifically fitted kitchens in very expensive showrooms so I think the stress of not knowing whether you’ve got one of the s
t fitters would be too much for me. Just looking on some of the Facebook groups shows how bad it can be. But to go from this mess (I’m not a tidy worker!)……
……to the finished product below (sorry about the photo dump) consumed a massive chunk of my life. I genuinely don’t know if it was worth it. Maybe what I’m saying is that if you know the fitters are top notch and that they’ll rectify any issues found along the way then it may be worth paying the £14k. Even if it’s £4k more than it should be it’ll be long forgotten once you’re enjoying your nicely fitted, new kitchen.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff