Anyone in the car insurance game – black box questions
Discussion
I know a couple of people who have recently taken up the car insurance Black Box option, basically to reduce their premiums – good idea.
But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
It transmits the data to the insurance company, it doesnt just record it.
Drive it like you stole it and your insurance will increase immediately not at renewal. You are banded into grades depending on your driving score, low band safe driver gets the agreed lower price.
Drive at night, in rush hour, brake hard, accelerate hard, speed etc and you end up in a different band and have to find an extra £300 for that months insurance. Get 2 or 3 bad scores in a row and now you have cancelled insurance to explain aswell.
Drive it like you stole it and your insurance will increase immediately not at renewal. You are banded into grades depending on your driving score, low band safe driver gets the agreed lower price.
Drive at night, in rush hour, brake hard, accelerate hard, speed etc and you end up in a different band and have to find an extra £300 for that months insurance. Get 2 or 3 bad scores in a row and now you have cancelled insurance to explain aswell.
Edited by Decky_Q on Sunday 8th December 10:13
Decky_Q said:
It transmits the data to the insurance company, it doesnt just record it.
Drive it like you stole it and your insurance will increase immediately not at renewal. You are banded into grades depending on your driving score, low band safe driver gets the agreed lower price.
Drive at night, in rush hour, brake hard, accelerate hard, speed etc and you end up in a different band and have to find an extra £300 for that months insurance. Get 2 or 3 bad scores in a row and now you have cancelled insurance to explain aswell.
This isn’t true of all systems. Drive it like you stole it and your insurance will increase immediately not at renewal. You are banded into grades depending on your driving score, low band safe driver gets the agreed lower price.
Drive at night, in rush hour, brake hard, accelerate hard, speed etc and you end up in a different band and have to find an extra £300 for that months insurance. Get 2 or 3 bad scores in a row and now you have cancelled insurance to explain aswell.
Edited by Decky_Q on Sunday 8th December 10:13
981Boxess said:
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
In theory yes but only after they have got permission from you or a serious accident involving speeding has occurred at which point you have probably got other things to worry about.
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Depending on the T and C of the policy taken out yes although more likely that for a first offence you would only get a warning.
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
Absolutely.
It is also conceivable they could conversely reduce them.
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
Better loss ratios , helps to improve driving standards , assists their actuaries in providing more data to set premiums etc.
In theory yes but only after they have got permission from you or a serious accident involving speeding has occurred at which point you have probably got other things to worry about.
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Depending on the T and C of the policy taken out yes although more likely that for a first offence you would only get a warning.
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
Absolutely.
It is also conceivable they could conversely reduce them.
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
Better loss ratios , helps to improve driving standards , assists their actuaries in providing more data to set premiums etc.
981Boxess said:
I know a couple of people who have recently taken up the car insurance Black Box option, basically to reduce their premiums – good idea.
But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
In order:But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
- Doubtful, although your car likely records all this and in a really serious crash they will check that. Plod aren’t going to be sending an NIP for 80 in a 70.
- Yes, of course they can cancel it
- generally no though possible. it will be used to discount good driving and really bad driving will be cancelled.
- people with telematics boxes crash less, so lower claims costs, so insurers can charge less. Despite what many incorrectly think, insurance is super competitive so any advantage to price more cheaply whilst remaining profitable is taken.
StoutBench said:
981Boxess said:
Thanks - well it really isn't hard to see what they get out of it now
They get what they intend to get out of it, drivers who pose more risk pay a higher premium. A black box worked well for my daughter. It was much cheaper and it echoed exactly what I thought about her driving, she was a bit too late and aggressive on braking. She started considering her braking time much more to get better scores.
We found it was actually very fair. Mild speeding didn't seem to get flagged as long as you were just keeping up with traffic. In her second year she pretty much gave up checking her scores and just drove like every other driver. She got no warnings or increases in premium.
Purely out of interest, and relating to the OP.
If your black box records you doing 140mph on the M4, I would fully understand them cancelling your insurance with obvious consequences in terms of future renewals (I accept the occasional 80 on a U.K. motorway would be acceptable but reduce your score), but would they report you to the police at the theoretical 140mph on the M4?
Related to the above, if you were doing 140mph on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn, what would they do then in terms of your driver score? If it is legal I would assume they can’t load your premium or score you badly (as the German government/whatever has assessed that speed on that part of the road system is acceptable), just as they wouldn’t have you were doing 70 on a U.K. motorway?
What would they do if you took your black box equipped car to a track day, whilst accepting you would be uninsured under their T&C’s (assuming they don’t cover track days, which is pretty likely) or if you had taken out separate track day insurance?
All theoretical for me by the way, just questions
If your black box records you doing 140mph on the M4, I would fully understand them cancelling your insurance with obvious consequences in terms of future renewals (I accept the occasional 80 on a U.K. motorway would be acceptable but reduce your score), but would they report you to the police at the theoretical 140mph on the M4?
Related to the above, if you were doing 140mph on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn, what would they do then in terms of your driver score? If it is legal I would assume they can’t load your premium or score you badly (as the German government/whatever has assessed that speed on that part of the road system is acceptable), just as they wouldn’t have you were doing 70 on a U.K. motorway?
What would they do if you took your black box equipped car to a track day, whilst accepting you would be uninsured under their T&C’s (assuming they don’t cover track days, which is pretty likely) or if you had taken out separate track day insurance?
All theoretical for me by the way, just questions
Edited by ChevronB19 on Sunday 8th December 10:59
ChevronB19 said:
Related to the above, if you were doing 140mph on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn, what would they do then in terms of your driver score? If it is legal I would assume they can’t load your premium or score you badly (as the German government/whatever has assessed that speed on that part of the road system is acceptable), just as they wouldn’t have you were doing 70 on a U.K. motorway?
Your actions do not have to be illegal to get penalised. Too much harsh braking can be penalised, and other stuff that isn't illegal. Given these boxes are aimed at young and inexperienced drivers, they shouldn't be doing 140 on the autobahn, legal or not. If you were a passenger in a car being driven by a young driver at 140 on the autobahn, I bet you'd be telling them not to be so bloody stupid.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevronB19 said:
Related to the above, if you were doing 140mph on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn, what would they do then in terms of your driver score? If it is legal I would assume they can’t load your premium or score you badly (as the German government/whatever has assessed that speed on that part of the road system is acceptable), just as they wouldn’t have you were doing 70 on a U.K. motorway?
Your actions do not have to be illegal to get penalised. Too much harsh braking can be penalised, and other stuff that isn't illegal. Given these boxes are aimed at young and inexperienced drivers, they shouldn't be doing 140 on the autobahn, legal or not. If you were a passenger in a car being driven by a young driver at 140 on the autobahn, I bet you'd be telling them not to be so bloody stupid.
It’s legal to drive at that speed on unrestricted parts of the autobahn (or higher), whatever your age (so long as that age complies with the law). I’d rather sit in a car at 140 on the autobahn with (for example) a 21 year old with years of race experience) than my granny.
ChevronB19 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevronB19 said:
Related to the above, if you were doing 140mph on an unrestricted part of the Autobahn, what would they do then in terms of your driver score? If it is legal I would assume they can’t load your premium or score you badly (as the German government/whatever has assessed that speed on that part of the road system is acceptable), just as they wouldn’t have you were doing 70 on a U.K. motorway?
Your actions do not have to be illegal to get penalised. Too much harsh braking can be penalised, and other stuff that isn't illegal. Given these boxes are aimed at young and inexperienced drivers, they shouldn't be doing 140 on the autobahn, legal or not. If you were a passenger in a car being driven by a young driver at 140 on the autobahn, I bet you'd be telling them not to be so bloody stupid.
It’s legal to drive at that speed on unrestricted parts of the autobahn (or higher), whatever your age (so long as that age complies with the law). I’d rather sit in a car at 140 on the autobahn with (for example) a 21 year old with years of race experience) than my granny.
A granny probably wouldn't dream of driving at 140. A 21 y/o might well do. That's why grannies are a better risk for insurers than young drivers.
981Boxess said:
I know a couple of people who have recently taken up the car insurance Black Box option, basically to reduce their premiums – good idea.
But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
1. No idea. On the plus side if your car gets nicked you have a free inbuilt tracker to help locate it But given that is no such thing as a free lunch, can anyone who actually knows please explain the real life implications of them. I understand they record lots of data about the car’s movements, but so what?
Can the Police use data from them to nick you?
Can insurers use the data to cancel your insurance if you drive like you stole it?
Can insurers use the data to increase premiums at renewal?
What exactly is in it for the insurers, they are not paying to do this for nothing?
We can all guess but can anyone in the business or been on the wrong end of this please enlighten the rest of us who are interested.
2. I think you'd get plenty of warnings beforehand. Also it's not hard (IME) to get very high scores as long as you drive sensibly
3. Highly likely if you've been riving like an idiot for the whole year.
4. helps them to identify drivers who make them more profits
My kids each had it in Year 1 after passing. They saved LOTS.
ChevronB19 said:
Well firstly, you’ve totally failed to answer my query, but never mind.
It’s legal to drive at that speed on unrestricted parts of the autobahn (or higher), whatever your age (so long as that age complies with the law). I’d rather sit in a car at 140 on the autobahn with (for example) a 21 year old with years of race experience) than my granny.
Derestricted autobahns have an advisory speed limit if 130kph so at a wild guess I'd imagine that most insurers would use that for the speed limit-based aspects of their scoring system. Though each insurer will have its own scoring system, so it's something you should probably check with the individual insurer before you buy one of these policies, if driving at 140mph in an Autobahn if important to you. It’s legal to drive at that speed on unrestricted parts of the autobahn (or higher), whatever your age (so long as that age complies with the law). I’d rather sit in a car at 140 on the autobahn with (for example) a 21 year old with years of race experience) than my granny.
Ultimately though, if your first thought is "what about autobahns?" or "what about track days?" it's probably fair to assume that you are probably not part of the target market for these policies. There assumed mainly at the 90% of drivers (and particularly the young drivers) who just want to get to work or Tesco with as little drama as possible, and ideally without paying through the nose for insurance.
Countdown said:
1. No idea. On the plus side if your car gets nicked you have a free inbuilt tracker to help locate it
2. I think you'd get plenty of warnings beforehand. Also it's not hard (IME) to get very high scores as long as you drive sensibly
3. Highly likely if you've been riving like an idiot for the whole year.
4. helps them to identify drivers who make them more profits
My kids each had it in Year 1 after passing. They saved LOTS.
So did my son. In fact the box was still in the car when he sold it, as the insurance company didn't bother to collect it.2. I think you'd get plenty of warnings beforehand. Also it's not hard (IME) to get very high scores as long as you drive sensibly
3. Highly likely if you've been riving like an idiot for the whole year.
4. helps them to identify drivers who make them more profits
My kids each had it in Year 1 after passing. They saved LOTS.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Your actions do not have to be illegal to get penalised. Too much harsh braking can be penalised, and other stuff that isn't illegal. Given these boxes are aimed at young and inexperienced drivers, they shouldn't be doing 140 on the autobahn, legal or not. If you were a passenger in a car being driven by a young driver at 140 on the autobahn, I bet you'd be telling them not to be so bloody stupid.
I was once driven round Castle Combe in a VX220 reaching about 120 top speed by a very remarkable 12 year old!My daughter has a black box and her insurance in year 2 came down in spite of a claim (her insurer argued for 50/50 but no idea on the outcome) in year 1.
The claim was for a clash of wing mirrors, no damage to her car. I guess the insurer could see her usual standard of driving from the black box. She is reluctant to let me drive it as she says I'll speed!
The claim was for a clash of wing mirrors, no damage to her car. I guess the insurer could see her usual standard of driving from the black box. She is reluctant to let me drive it as she says I'll speed!
We live in the country and two fo my son's mates passed their test before him. They both got insurance with black boxes. Where we live is very rural with many single track roads, tractors round each corner and it's not uncommon to see a dozen horses on the road during the course of a 15 min journey.
Within a month, both of them had been warned that they were braking too frequently and often heavily, at 6 weeks, the first one had his insurance cancelled as a result of what the insurance company called unsafe driving. The other lads premiums were increased and the company eventually contacted him to suggest he cancel the policy before they did. There were of course other factors, such as using their cars late at night that the company also didn't like.
The lad who had his insurance cancelled has struggled since to even find a company to cover him.
Whilst my exposure to these types of telematics policies is limited, I am sure they still have a place in an urban environment for young drivers who are driving simply to get from A to B, but in my case (living in the middle of nowhere, petrolhead kids who often will go driving for the pleasure of driving alone) they didn't make sense and we avoided them and the potential savings they offered.
Within a month, both of them had been warned that they were braking too frequently and often heavily, at 6 weeks, the first one had his insurance cancelled as a result of what the insurance company called unsafe driving. The other lads premiums were increased and the company eventually contacted him to suggest he cancel the policy before they did. There were of course other factors, such as using their cars late at night that the company also didn't like.
The lad who had his insurance cancelled has struggled since to even find a company to cover him.
Whilst my exposure to these types of telematics policies is limited, I am sure they still have a place in an urban environment for young drivers who are driving simply to get from A to B, but in my case (living in the middle of nowhere, petrolhead kids who often will go driving for the pleasure of driving alone) they didn't make sense and we avoided them and the potential savings they offered.
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