Police cleared for arresting 13 year old with water pistol
Discussion
Interesting one this.
IOPC clears armed police who arrested 13-year-old playing with water pistol
I can see why the kid and his family would feel pissed off but I can also see the headlines if an officer or member of the public got shot because a perceived threat wasn't taken seriously and dealt appropriately.
IOPC clears armed police who arrested 13-year-old playing with water pistol
I can see why the kid and his family would feel pissed off but I can also see the headlines if an officer or member of the public got shot because a perceived threat wasn't taken seriously and dealt appropriately.
We don't know how convincing the replica was. Some toys are very convincing at a distance. Seems to me that the parents bear some responsibility for allowing the kid to play with something like this.
And as for the the usual 'it's coz he's black' brigade. Can't they see that police are trying to save life, and black lives in particular?
It's just common sense. I have a replica Winchester lever action rifle. It stays in the house, out of sight of passers by. I know it could not be made to fire, but I don’t intend to give someone reason to panic and call Police.
And as for the the usual 'it's coz he's black' brigade. Can't they see that police are trying to save life, and black lives in particular?
It's just common sense. I have a replica Winchester lever action rifle. It stays in the house, out of sight of passers by. I know it could not be made to fire, but I don’t intend to give someone reason to panic and call Police.
Police doing the job we pay them too
Public report male on a bike on the "murder mile" in possession of a firearm
Police respond accordingly and detain said male and recover an imitation firearm
Said male subsequently turns out Ito be 13
Good job well done, and for once sense from the IOPC
(Interesting fact .. most teenage victims of gun and knife crime are wounded/killed by other teenagers)
Public report male on a bike on the "murder mile" in possession of a firearm
Police respond accordingly and detain said male and recover an imitation firearm
Said male subsequently turns out Ito be 13
Good job well done, and for once sense from the IOPC
(Interesting fact .. most teenage victims of gun and knife crime are wounded/killed by other teenagers)
I had a feeling there might be more to the story than the headline suggests..
The Acrticle said:
“A 13-year-old black boy playing with a water pistol was treated as an armed criminal, brutalised, and left traumatised. The trauma inflicted on Child X and his family is part of a broader, systemic problem of institutional racism and adultification in policing. The Casey review laid bare the institutional racism within the Metropolitan police, but the IOPC continues to ignore this reality.
“How many more black children must suffer similar trauma before we see real change? We need immediate reforms to safeguard our children from these disproportionate and damaging interactions.
“Black communities are simply expected to suffer the realities of disproportionate policing and are left alone to deal with the deep trauma that is a consequence of disproportionate use of force and the routine denials of racism. Enough is enough.”
“How many more black children must suffer similar trauma before we see real change? We need immediate reforms to safeguard our children from these disproportionate and damaging interactions.
“Black communities are simply expected to suffer the realities of disproportionate policing and are left alone to deal with the deep trauma that is a consequence of disproportionate use of force and the routine denials of racism. Enough is enough.”
Chris Peacock said:
I had a feeling there might be more to the story than the headline suggests..
Do they mean the trauma of being 4 times as likely to be murdered and nearly half of London's knife crime victims despite only making up 13% of the population? The Article said:
“How many more black children must suffer similar trauma before we see real change?"...
Policing is primarily a reaction not a cause.
Earthdweller said:
Police doing the job we pay them too
Public report male on a bike on the "murder mile" in possession of a firearm
Police respond accordingly and detain said male and recover an imitation firearm
Said male subsequently turns out Ito be 13
Good job well done, and for once sense from the IOPC
(Interesting fact .. most teenage victims of gun and knife crime are wounded/killed by other teenagers)
Totally agree but this sentiment doesnt sell newspapers does it and is far less dramatic. Incidentally , have you seen the size of some 13yr old these days ?Public report male on a bike on the "murder mile" in possession of a firearm
Police respond accordingly and detain said male and recover an imitation firearm
Said male subsequently turns out Ito be 13
Good job well done, and for once sense from the IOPC
(Interesting fact .. most teenage victims of gun and knife crime are wounded/killed by other teenagers)
Earthdweller said:
Far Cough said:
Totally agree but this sentiment doesnt sell newspapers does it and is far less dramatic. Incidentally , have you seen the size of some 13yr old these days ?
Oh yes ... I have a 6ft 15 year old son 
Anything vaguely real gun shaped is likely to cause initial alarm, I doubt there would have been any issue if it was brightly coloured and not real gun shaped.
Badgerboy said:
I'm reminded of some of the photos circulating from the US of actual firearms adorned with all manner of colour schemes, which means even colour schemes like this are no longer sufficient to differentiate a toy from the real thing, if the shape of the toy is sufficiently similar to a real firearm that it'd be difficult/impossible to differentiate from any sort of distance.Kid's 'toy' guns, eh?
Good job his parents didn't buy him this one, he'd probably have ended up being more than arrested and horizontal.
https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/Sc616d52...
'Shell Ejecting Safe Toy Guns For Kids Soft Bullets Toy Gun Cool Birthday Gifts' £6.99.
Age 6+
Good job his parents didn't buy him this one, he'd probably have ended up being more than arrested and horizontal.
https://ae-pic-a1.aliexpress-media.com/kf/Sc616d52...
'Shell Ejecting Safe Toy Guns For Kids Soft Bullets Toy Gun Cool Birthday Gifts' £6.99.
Age 6+
Police did nothing wrong. I’d much rather they were a bit cautious than allowed another (black) kid to get shot or stabbed. The police responded. Once they worked out it was a toy he was dearrested. Case closed.
I’ve been accused on here of being anti police. And also of someone who sees racism in everthing. But as someone who has lived in London - black kids hurting other black kids in certain parts of the city is atrocious. The most racist thing the police could do is not crack down on it. If I was a parent who was poor and who was black and I lived in Hackney or Tottenham I’d be terrified of what harm would come to my kids.
We don’t know how briefly the officer saw the toy gun. Or how far away they were. And I’m sure they got a certain level of ridicule from their colleagues for calling it in. And in some ways it shows how restrained the police in the uk generally are. He suffered mild bruising. In America he might be dead now or seriously injured.
I’ve been accused on here of being anti police. And also of someone who sees racism in everthing. But as someone who has lived in London - black kids hurting other black kids in certain parts of the city is atrocious. The most racist thing the police could do is not crack down on it. If I was a parent who was poor and who was black and I lived in Hackney or Tottenham I’d be terrified of what harm would come to my kids.
We don’t know how briefly the officer saw the toy gun. Or how far away they were. And I’m sure they got a certain level of ridicule from their colleagues for calling it in. And in some ways it shows how restrained the police in the uk generally are. He suffered mild bruising. In America he might be dead now or seriously injured.
twister said:
Badgerboy said:
I'm reminded of some of the photos circulating from the US of actual firearms adorned with all manner of colour schemes, which means even colour schemes like this are no longer sufficient to differentiate a toy from the real thing, if the shape of the toy is sufficiently similar to a real firearm that it'd be difficult/impossible to differentiate from any sort of distance.BBC report on ghost guns:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y79k8vg3lo
Edited by Richard-D on Friday 13th December 18:57
Easy to sling mud with the headline… child with water pistol arrested. Useless police etc etc etc etc….
Not always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
These are real…
Not always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
These are real…
Edited by LM240 on Saturday 14th December 11:21
LM240 said:
Easy to sling mud with the headline… child with water pistol arrested. Useless police etc etc etc etc….
Not always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
Details are in the IOPC statementNot always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/officers-act...
Hill92 said:
LM240 said:
Easy to sling mud with the headline… child with water pistol arrested. Useless police etc etc etc etc….
Not always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
Details are in the IOPC statementNot always black and white or simple as would seem to be. The information and intelligence goes through a command chain of specialists. Decisions are not made lightly.
I don’t know the exact circumstances, but details to consider are;
- The area. Not beyond realms of possibility a child is in possession of a firearm.
- What exactly were they doing with it? (I.e. information won’t have been there are two kids squirting water at each other)
- Is the address linked to criminality (particularly gangs)?
- What was initial info. Have to act on information given.
- Armed police involved, but nothing stated about tactics etc. It could well have been very low key arrest.
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/officers-act...
Pointed at member of public.
16… not so young for it to seem silly then. 16 these days are not small children and easily present older looking and in their attitude.
Possible firearm.
See no issue myself, other than entire investigation seems to have revolved around hunting for race issues at every single point and person involved in the incident.
LM240 said:
16… not so young for it to seem silly then. 16 these days are not small children and easily present older looking and in their attitude.
Not 16, 13. Reported by the first officer who saw him as 16. One of the complaints made to the police was around this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultification
Edited by otolith on Saturday 14th December 10:59
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