Sagaris vs. C6 Z06
Discussion
Much as I love the way the new AM V8 Vantage looks and like the sound of the way it drives, I've pretty well eliminated it, its cost and the long wait from my thinking and have narrowed down my choice of replacements for the Tuscan to the following. I would appreciate all of your thoughts on the choice between:
1. Sagaris, probably with the CRG
or
2. Corvette C6 Z06
Now I know I've come to a forum where I shouldn't expect impartiality, but in the four years I've had the Tuscan, it's been clear that TVR drivers are largely fair and open-minded!
I've driven the Sagaris but not the C6 Z06.
The Sagaris was simply superb around the twisties near Racing Green, so much so that I was confident taking several of the bends 10-15mph faster than in the Tuscan. That amazed me. It did, however, bottom out a lot. The luggage space is smaller in the Sag (Tuscan's is about right for me). By recent accounts, Saggy Vmax seems to be severely limited by Gurney flap etc. And, despite "improvements" and the new 3 year warranty, I must admit I have lingering doubts about reliability etc, especially after recent annoying experiences with the Tuscan... But it is a TVR... and it's beautiful...
As for the Corvette, the new Z06 sounds like it's even quicker than the Sagaris: GM says 3.7s for 0-60 but Motor Trend tested it at 3.5 secs. 0-100 in 7.7s. 1/4 mile in 11.5s at 127mph. 7:43 at the 'ring (admittedly with Jan Magnussen driving). Don't know how the handling compares yet but I dare say can't be as good as the Sag (though Autocar think it's wonderful). More luggage space. More creature comforts. Probably more reliable. But a tad less sexy. And LHD only (a right pain on country roads I expect... though arguably helpful on the motorway these days! sssh).
So, what do you think?
Are there comparable stats for the Sagaris to all of those above for the c6 Z06? 0-60 (3.7s) and 0-100 (8.1s) I have seen; but 1/4 mile? Hot lap of the 'ring? I suppose a Stig lap in the Z06 would be helpful too, though I'm surprised the Sagaris didn't have A LOT more than 0.2 secs over the Tuscan on that track.
And does anyone have experience of owning and driving a LHD performance car on UK roads? Is it a pain?
Whichever you prefer, I'd be VERY interested in all your views, and very grateful.
Matt
>> Edited by charltm on Wednesday 28th September 14:51
1. Sagaris, probably with the CRG
or
2. Corvette C6 Z06
Now I know I've come to a forum where I shouldn't expect impartiality, but in the four years I've had the Tuscan, it's been clear that TVR drivers are largely fair and open-minded!
I've driven the Sagaris but not the C6 Z06.
The Sagaris was simply superb around the twisties near Racing Green, so much so that I was confident taking several of the bends 10-15mph faster than in the Tuscan. That amazed me. It did, however, bottom out a lot. The luggage space is smaller in the Sag (Tuscan's is about right for me). By recent accounts, Saggy Vmax seems to be severely limited by Gurney flap etc. And, despite "improvements" and the new 3 year warranty, I must admit I have lingering doubts about reliability etc, especially after recent annoying experiences with the Tuscan... But it is a TVR... and it's beautiful...
As for the Corvette, the new Z06 sounds like it's even quicker than the Sagaris: GM says 3.7s for 0-60 but Motor Trend tested it at 3.5 secs. 0-100 in 7.7s. 1/4 mile in 11.5s at 127mph. 7:43 at the 'ring (admittedly with Jan Magnussen driving). Don't know how the handling compares yet but I dare say can't be as good as the Sag (though Autocar think it's wonderful). More luggage space. More creature comforts. Probably more reliable. But a tad less sexy. And LHD only (a right pain on country roads I expect... though arguably helpful on the motorway these days! sssh).
So, what do you think?
Are there comparable stats for the Sagaris to all of those above for the c6 Z06? 0-60 (3.7s) and 0-100 (8.1s) I have seen; but 1/4 mile? Hot lap of the 'ring? I suppose a Stig lap in the Z06 would be helpful too, though I'm surprised the Sagaris didn't have A LOT more than 0.2 secs over the Tuscan on that track.
And does anyone have experience of owning and driving a LHD performance car on UK roads? Is it a pain?
Whichever you prefer, I'd be VERY interested in all your views, and very grateful.
Matt
>> Edited by charltm on Wednesday 28th September 14:51
The 'vette is considerably pricier and lhd. 7.Olitre engine must be amusingly thirsty. Lookswise the recent corvettes have just never captured the glory of their earlier ancestors somehow. Must be quick and capable though and I think you can take the roof panel off, but not sure. The one to have if you're obsessed with v8 rumble as some seem to be here.
Sagaris - unique looks, price, british, revvier engine, lightweight, and incredibly, it has fuel economy going for it in this comparison. A big TVR plus is the degree of personalisation that is on offer. If you want pink leather around air vents you can have it.
Personally I prefer the S6 to a fat lazy american and rhd is a big plus if you're only in the UK. As with most decisions like this it comes down to looks and no one can help you there.
Sagaris - unique looks, price, british, revvier engine, lightweight, and incredibly, it has fuel economy going for it in this comparison. A big TVR plus is the degree of personalisation that is on offer. If you want pink leather around air vents you can have it.
Personally I prefer the S6 to a fat lazy american and rhd is a big plus if you're only in the UK. As with most decisions like this it comes down to looks and no one can help you there.
Cheers pits.
If it were JUST down to looks, it'd be the 'gris, no contest.
As for fuel consumption, surprisingly "highway" for the Corvette is over 30mpg, which certainly beats my Tuscan. Urban is 19mpg.
Price: £60k plays £50k but air con, paint and CRG quickly take the Sagaris well up into the mid-50s.
Not sure that 7:43 round the Nurburgring counts as "lazy"!
LHD may be an issue for me; would be very interested to hear from those with experience of driving fast LHD cars in the UK and can compare the experience with that of a TVR.
>> Edited by charltm on Monday 26th September 14:14
If it were JUST down to looks, it'd be the 'gris, no contest.
As for fuel consumption, surprisingly "highway" for the Corvette is over 30mpg, which certainly beats my Tuscan. Urban is 19mpg.
Price: £60k plays £50k but air con, paint and CRG quickly take the Sagaris well up into the mid-50s.
Not sure that 7:43 round the Nurburgring counts as "lazy"!
LHD may be an issue for me; would be very interested to hear from those with experience of driving fast LHD cars in the UK and can compare the experience with that of a TVR.
>> Edited by charltm on Monday 26th September 14:14
charltm said:
...
LHD may be an issue for me; would be very interested to hear from those with experience of driving fast LHD cars in the UK
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=100&h=0
I've driven a Sagaris and an ordinary C6 back to back.
The Sagaris handling is in another league - where the Vette understeers and wallows, the Sagaris turns so sharply you leave your stomach behind. At very high speeds, the Vette is ultimately more slippery and accelerates harder past 140 than the Sagaris. But, for B roads/A roads and track days the Vette wouldn't see which way a Sagaris went.
As posted above, another edge the Sagaris has is personalisation possibilities. Staying objective, the tuning potential of the Vette is far broader than the TVR.
If TVRs didn't exist I think a Vette would be my choice of car.
Vette easier to live with day to day but Sagaris makes you laugh every time you pop out for cigarettes. Every journey is an adventure in a Sagaris.
Nice but difficult choice Z06 vs. Sagaris - suggest make a list of pros and cons for each.
The Sagaris handling is in another league - where the Vette understeers and wallows, the Sagaris turns so sharply you leave your stomach behind. At very high speeds, the Vette is ultimately more slippery and accelerates harder past 140 than the Sagaris. But, for B roads/A roads and track days the Vette wouldn't see which way a Sagaris went.
As posted above, another edge the Sagaris has is personalisation possibilities. Staying objective, the tuning potential of the Vette is far broader than the TVR.
If TVRs didn't exist I think a Vette would be my choice of car.
Vette easier to live with day to day but Sagaris makes you laugh every time you pop out for cigarettes. Every journey is an adventure in a Sagaris.
Nice but difficult choice Z06 vs. Sagaris - suggest make a list of pros and cons for each.
It's lazy as in lots of low down torque and (for a 7 litre) not much bhp high up. It doesn't rev like a sagaris and would probably be faster changing up before 6000 rpm, probably getting a bit wheezy much over that. The S6 pulls harder the more you rev it, which is what I like anyway. The engine is everything in a performance car (ie bought for no good reasons other than the emotional).
I drove a ferrari 550 maranello. It sounds pathetic but it destroyed my romantic view about modern ferraris. When we were competing at Fiorano for the advanced ferrari driving course the instructors told us to change up at 5500 rpm for best results. Enzo must have been spinning higher in his grave! With the 355's we were told to rev the daylights out of them. I bought a 355.
Sounds off topic but explains why I love engines that rev and why I don't think I'd ever want a viper or similar. Many RV8 fans on here share the exact opposite view to the above.
My Sagaris was over 50k but I'm sure a Z06's price can rise above 60k without much effort. I'm also a bit gutted because it beat Aston at Le Mans, by being the slower but more durable car. Typical porsche style GT car win, but hey that's GT racing etc. etc.
ps please don't believe that guff over on the V-Max thing about the gurney flap ruining top speed. It does slow it but only down from the claimed 195mph max. V-max events don't allow cars to run to their top speeds, they only measure how fast within a limited distance. I have every faith that the Sagaris can comfortably reach 175mph, which isn't hanging around. In that respect it's just as capable of putting you in jail as the Corvette!
>> Edited by the pits on Monday 26th September 14:36
I drove a ferrari 550 maranello. It sounds pathetic but it destroyed my romantic view about modern ferraris. When we were competing at Fiorano for the advanced ferrari driving course the instructors told us to change up at 5500 rpm for best results. Enzo must have been spinning higher in his grave! With the 355's we were told to rev the daylights out of them. I bought a 355.
Sounds off topic but explains why I love engines that rev and why I don't think I'd ever want a viper or similar. Many RV8 fans on here share the exact opposite view to the above.
My Sagaris was over 50k but I'm sure a Z06's price can rise above 60k without much effort. I'm also a bit gutted because it beat Aston at Le Mans, by being the slower but more durable car. Typical porsche style GT car win, but hey that's GT racing etc. etc.
ps please don't believe that guff over on the V-Max thing about the gurney flap ruining top speed. It does slow it but only down from the claimed 195mph max. V-max events don't allow cars to run to their top speeds, they only measure how fast within a limited distance. I have every faith that the Sagaris can comfortably reach 175mph, which isn't hanging around. In that respect it's just as capable of putting you in jail as the Corvette!
>> Edited by the pits on Monday 26th September 14:36
thanks pits and bosscerbera - helpful
Must admit I love revving the S6 on on-ramps etc. but with most of my driving, torque is my friend.
I suspect either will please me no end. Vette more practical for carting my "sporting kit" around. Gris more practical for being RHD. Vette prob more reliable but, ultimately, it's almost certainly going to come down to how the Vette (Z06 that is) feels when thrown around a few corners.
Must admit I love revving the S6 on on-ramps etc. but with most of my driving, torque is my friend.
I suspect either will please me no end. Vette more practical for carting my "sporting kit" around. Gris more practical for being RHD. Vette prob more reliable but, ultimately, it's almost certainly going to come down to how the Vette (Z06 that is) feels when thrown around a few corners.
On a car by car basis it has to be the Sagaris. The Vette may have the straight line speed to edge out the TVR but add bends into the equation & thiers only one winner.
Where are you going to be driving the car ? If it is in mainly the UK then, again, it has to be the Sagaris. Unless you have a good co-pilot the the performance of the Vette would be wasted anyway due to vision restrictions.
If however you use the car to get to work, and as with a lot of places nowadays, you wouldn't get the chance to explot either, but you are intending to track the cars further afield, ie. abroad, then the Vette becomes a slightly more realistic option, as the journeys to the tracks would be far more fun as you would have the steering wheel on the proper side 99% of the time.
Other things to consider are running costs. As others have mentioned, the Vette will probably drink more petrol than the TVR, however start putting 15-20k a year on them both, and the TVR's servicing costs will make your eyes water.
Reliability ? Without bleeting on about the Speed 6. It has had problems, although this does seem to be greatly improved. However, the Vette should be pretty much bulletproof.
Me personally, I'll take the Sagaris. But if the Vette was RHD it would be definately something I would consider in the future.
Where are you going to be driving the car ? If it is in mainly the UK then, again, it has to be the Sagaris. Unless you have a good co-pilot the the performance of the Vette would be wasted anyway due to vision restrictions.
If however you use the car to get to work, and as with a lot of places nowadays, you wouldn't get the chance to explot either, but you are intending to track the cars further afield, ie. abroad, then the Vette becomes a slightly more realistic option, as the journeys to the tracks would be far more fun as you would have the steering wheel on the proper side 99% of the time.
Other things to consider are running costs. As others have mentioned, the Vette will probably drink more petrol than the TVR, however start putting 15-20k a year on them both, and the TVR's servicing costs will make your eyes water.
Reliability ? Without bleeting on about the Speed 6. It has had problems, although this does seem to be greatly improved. However, the Vette should be pretty much bulletproof.
Me personally, I'll take the Sagaris. But if the Vette was RHD it would be definately something I would consider in the future.
hobo said:
On a car by car basis it has to be the Sagaris. The Vette may have the straight line speed to edge out the TVR but add bends into the equation & thiers only one winner.
Where are you going to be driving the car ? If it is in mainly the UK then, again, it has to be the Sagaris. Unless you have a good co-pilot the the performance of the Vette would be wasted anyway due to vision restrictions.
If however you use the car to get to work, and as with a lot of places nowadays, you wouldn't get the chance to explot either, but you are intending to track the cars further afield, ie. abroad, then the Vette becomes a slightly more realistic option, as the journeys to the tracks would be far more fun as you would have the steering wheel on the proper side 99% of the time.
Other things to consider are running costs. As others have mentioned, the Vette will probably drink more petrol than the TVR, however start putting 15-20k a year on them both, and the TVR's servicing costs will make your eyes water.
Reliability ? Without bleeting on about the Speed 6. It has had problems, although this does seem to be greatly improved. However, the Vette should be pretty much bulletproof.
Me personally, I'll take the Sagaris. But if the Vette was RHD it would be definately something I would consider in the future.
"On a car by car basis": is there any other way?
"Only one winner": really? Yes the Sagaris is superb round the bends but isn't 7:43 on the 'ring s pretty good sign for the Corvette? Only the Carrera GT has gone faster (of current production cars). I would LOVE to see the Sagaris go faster and then my mind would be virtually made up.
Fuel consumption: I'm not convinced the Vette is thirstier, with >30mpg out of town. My Tuscan doesn't do that. Plus bigger tank means ~450 mile range vs. ~275 miles for the Tuscan (and Sagaris?).
Good thoughts though, thanks.
Interesting one this. I may well go and have a gander at a Z06 also.
I come from the fat boy (torque) band club and have moved to the S Club Six. Have no complaints. Ive come to love the endless revs and the harder you push it the more the Sagaris and her engine gives. It is seriously addictive.
I hold my hand up, I like the Z06. I think it looks great, stonking performance and has an aura and reputation. Lhd is going to be a bitch frankly, esp on proper roads in this country. Ive driven lhd cars over and even the smaller Pug and Citreon stuff is a flaming arse ache. £60k is £5k more than I paid for my 'Gris (good to see you using the nick
) and I cant really see why it is worth £5k more. The close ratio box isnt a must have option to be honest, tried both cr and normal when speccing mine and it was strictly in the "nice to have, but not worth the cash" section. The 'gris has more than enough performance.
On road performance, given Uk roads, given the lhd v rhd difference and given physical size differences, the Z06 wont see which way the 'Gris went.
Practicality wise I find the 'Gris brilliant. That load space is fantastic, need nothing more. Anybody who cant pack enough for 2 ppl for 2 weeks on a driving holiday to the Continent in the Sagaris needs to learn to pack.
Finally there is one last nail in the Z06 coffin. Blue Streak or whatever the really mental nutter version is called. Now if this was a choice between that and the Sagaris for £60k, Id go with the Vette. In fact I *really* want to get my hands on one of them. How about that option...wait till you can get a chance to play and see how that stacks up?
I come from the fat boy (torque) band club and have moved to the S Club Six. Have no complaints. Ive come to love the endless revs and the harder you push it the more the Sagaris and her engine gives. It is seriously addictive.
I hold my hand up, I like the Z06. I think it looks great, stonking performance and has an aura and reputation. Lhd is going to be a bitch frankly, esp on proper roads in this country. Ive driven lhd cars over and even the smaller Pug and Citreon stuff is a flaming arse ache. £60k is £5k more than I paid for my 'Gris (good to see you using the nick
) and I cant really see why it is worth £5k more. The close ratio box isnt a must have option to be honest, tried both cr and normal when speccing mine and it was strictly in the "nice to have, but not worth the cash" section. The 'gris has more than enough performance. On road performance, given Uk roads, given the lhd v rhd difference and given physical size differences, the Z06 wont see which way the 'Gris went.
Practicality wise I find the 'Gris brilliant. That load space is fantastic, need nothing more. Anybody who cant pack enough for 2 ppl for 2 weeks on a driving holiday to the Continent in the Sagaris needs to learn to pack.
Finally there is one last nail in the Z06 coffin. Blue Streak or whatever the really mental nutter version is called. Now if this was a choice between that and the Sagaris for £60k, Id go with the Vette. In fact I *really* want to get my hands on one of them. How about that option...wait till you can get a chance to play and see how that stacks up?
Apparently the Blue Devil is a myth created by those who didn't believe Magnussen's 'Ring time in the stock Z06. That car happened to be blue.
Sadly, for me, stowage in the 'Gris IS an issue. I do a lot of competitive target shooting and have taken my rifles plus kit to Racing Green to try and fit the lot into the boot. It all fit, but only just and with the rifles diagonal rather than transverse. Which would mean that a holiday tagged onto a shooting comp just wouldn't work. Likewise, I'm sure, a skiing/snowboarding trip, which we managed in the Tuscan last winter (BTW I was presented with various freebies by the guy that ran the Gumball for my mucky Tuscan and its snow chains being the coolest car in Courchevel! But those chains were a bee-atch to get on and off).
Unless of course I get them to design a Sagaris roof rack...! Hmmm...
Sadly, for me, stowage in the 'Gris IS an issue. I do a lot of competitive target shooting and have taken my rifles plus kit to Racing Green to try and fit the lot into the boot. It all fit, but only just and with the rifles diagonal rather than transverse. Which would mean that a holiday tagged onto a shooting comp just wouldn't work. Likewise, I'm sure, a skiing/snowboarding trip, which we managed in the Tuscan last winter (BTW I was presented with various freebies by the guy that ran the Gumball for my mucky Tuscan and its snow chains being the coolest car in Courchevel! But those chains were a bee-atch to get on and off).
Unless of course I get them to design a Sagaris roof rack...! Hmmm...
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about times around the 'ring', as these are set by:
a) extremely handy drivers
b) drivers not needing to worry about venturing off track
This however would be YOUR money, YOUR car, and therefore as a result would, I suspect, not be driven at 100% all the time.
This is where the TVR would win hands down. It is SO easy to drive, so confidence inspiring.
I'd put money on your average joe being quicker round the 'ring' in the TVR than the Vette.
a) extremely handy drivers
b) drivers not needing to worry about venturing off track
This however would be YOUR money, YOUR car, and therefore as a result would, I suspect, not be driven at 100% all the time.
This is where the TVR would win hands down. It is SO easy to drive, so confidence inspiring.
I'd put money on your average joe being quicker round the 'ring' in the TVR than the Vette.
What is CGR?
Z06 has a very uncomfortable ride unless you are on a glass-smooth surface. It is far too stiff to enjoy on public roads. I have epersonaly xperienced this (owner shouted me down) and then read numerous comments to the same effect in the press (with owners writing in to shout the author down).
On a B-road, having a low, fast LHD car is torture--you will miss a lot of overtaking opportunities because you can't see around the car in front. Plus, when you poke out to 'ave a look, you are risking lives. Parking lots and toll booths will also be "fun".
Sagaris feels a lot less refined but Vette interior is very plasticky. Plus, potential for Speed 6 to go bang, along with 12 weeks off the road...
Sorry, both have cons. I would take the Sagaris.
Z06 has a very uncomfortable ride unless you are on a glass-smooth surface. It is far too stiff to enjoy on public roads. I have epersonaly xperienced this (owner shouted me down) and then read numerous comments to the same effect in the press (with owners writing in to shout the author down).
On a B-road, having a low, fast LHD car is torture--you will miss a lot of overtaking opportunities because you can't see around the car in front. Plus, when you poke out to 'ave a look, you are risking lives. Parking lots and toll booths will also be "fun".
Sagaris feels a lot less refined but Vette interior is very plasticky. Plus, potential for Speed 6 to go bang, along with 12 weeks off the road...
Sorry, both have cons. I would take the Sagaris.
Personally I find the 30+mpg a bit hard to believe and I wouldn't take the 'ring time on face value either. It's very easy to change suspension, brakes and even bhp without anyone knowing it. But until I know more I'll have to take your word for it.
Having driven the ring a few times it definitely favours smaller, more agile cars and I would expect a suitably well driven 'gris' to perform well there. That far under 8mins? That I'm not so sure. It's still a hell of a feat for a road car to get under 8 minutes.
You'd expect a pro TVR decision on here and I'm glad that's the case. A rhd Z06 for 60k would be more tempting for me. Even then it's 10k more than an already v. expensive car. You can by virtually any car you've ever wanted 2nd hand for 60k. Unless you plan lots of european trips - eg the Nurburgring! I'd get the Sagaris. Heck for 60k you could even have mine!
Having driven the ring a few times it definitely favours smaller, more agile cars and I would expect a suitably well driven 'gris' to perform well there. That far under 8mins? That I'm not so sure. It's still a hell of a feat for a road car to get under 8 minutes.
You'd expect a pro TVR decision on here and I'm glad that's the case. A rhd Z06 for 60k would be more tempting for me. Even then it's 10k more than an already v. expensive car. You can by virtually any car you've ever wanted 2nd hand for 60k. Unless you plan lots of european trips - eg the Nurburgring! I'd get the Sagaris. Heck for 60k you could even have mine!
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