EV batteries lasting 38 per cent longer than designed

[braddo]

New study suggest EVs are out-performing car-makers' original estimates for longevity

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ev-b...


For all but a very, very small percentage of UK motorists (300 miles of non-stop towing etc etc), the direction of travel is clear...

[cptsideways]

They forgot to mention what actually brings the stats down.

Leaf

[vikingaero]

braddo said:

New study suggest EVs are out-performing car-makers' original estimates for longevity

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ev-b...


For all but a very, very small percentage of UK motorists (300 miles of non-stop towing etc etc), the direction of travel is clear...

That's all good, and battery tech can only improve.

But we're in winter right and watching a guy in travelling the NC500 in Scotland in his ID Buzz with around 150 mile effective range isn't good. And I doubt there aren't many EV's that will realistically get 300 miles whilst towing.

[Nomme de Plum]

vikingaero said:

braddo said:

New study suggest EVs are out-performing car-makers' original estimates for longevity

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ev-b...


For all but a very, very small percentage of UK motorists (300 miles of non-stop towing etc etc), the direction of travel is clear...

That's all good, and battery tech can only improve.

But we're in winter right and watching a guy in travelling the NC500 in Scotland in his ID Buzz with around 150 mile effective range isn't good. And I doubt there aren't many EV's that will realistically get 300 miles whilst towing.

Currently EVs are not great for towing heavy loads or tarriers with large wind resistance like caravans. Hower small trailers and dingoes are much less impactful.

150 mile may not be much but how often do most of us do 150miles non stop?

[Nomme de Plum]

Nomme de Plum said:

vikingaero said:

braddo said:

New study suggest EVs are out-performing car-makers' original estimates for longevity

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ev-b...


For all but a very, very small percentage of UK motorists (300 miles of non-stop towing etc etc), the direction of travel is clear...

That's all good, and battery tech can only improve.

But we're in winter right and watching a guy in travelling the NC500 in Scotland in his ID Buzz with around 150 mile effective range isn't good. And I doubt there aren't many EV's that will realistically get 300 miles whilst towing.

Currently EVs are not great for towing heavy loads or trailers with large wind resistance like caravans. Hower small trailers and dingoes are much less impactful.

150 mile may not be much but how often do most of us do 150miles non stop?

[MustangGT]

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

[vikingaero]

Nomme de Plum said:

vikingaero said:

braddo said:

New study suggest EVs are out-performing car-makers' original estimates for longevity

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/ev-b...


For all but a very, very small percentage of UK motorists (300 miles of non-stop towing etc etc), the direction of travel is clear...

That's all good, and battery tech can only improve.

But we're in winter right and watching a guy in travelling the NC500 in Scotland in his ID Buzz with around 150 mile effective range isn't good. And I doubt there aren't many EV's that will realistically get 300 miles whilst towing.

Currently EVs are not great for towing heavy loads or tarriers with large wind resistance like caravans. Hower small trailers and dingoes are much less impactful.

150 mile may not be much but how often do most of us do 150miles non stop?

My last holiday roadtrip was leaving home at 4am, and arriving for breakfast in Cornwall 4.5 hrs later @70mph and 270+ miles. No tiredness, no toilet break required by me.

[Bill]

vikingaero said:

But we're in winter right and watching a guy in travelling the NC500 in Scotland in his ID Buzz with around 150 mile effective range isn't good. And I doubt there aren't many EV's that will realistically get 300 miles whilst towing.

Is he doing it for clicks...

[vikingaero]

MustangGT said:

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

That may be well and true, but 95% of people will only have one car that has to do both jobs of urban travel and long distance. It's only on PH that we have a car for winter/summer/urban/rural/off-road.

If you only do a few high speed/long distance trips then the few hours of inconvenience from more charging stops is acceptable in the overall ownership.

[Alex_225]

MustangGT said:

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

Good post that and completely agree. My mum for example, only ever drives locally and she'd never do a long drive. Perfect candidate for an EV. Same technically goes for my other half as she drives about 200 miles a week and we have plenty of off street parking so charging wouldn't be an issue. Cost to buy would be off putting at the moment.

It's good to hear that batteries are lasting better than anticipated. A friend of mine has a Model S, and although not a car guy by any means likes his car despite it's reliability but he has openly admitted he lives in fear of the battery suddenly dying. That said, it's an early model and does only about 10 miles per full charger than it did when it was new.

Although I'm not a fan of EVs particularly, I don't think it's right to put them down for the sake of it. It'll be good to see them last as many people's initial concerns were that they'd be in the bin within 10 years.

[J4CKO]

I could easily just use an EV, I know people who say they couldnt but in reality their entire car usage is trips under 30 miles, mostly single digits.

The batteries expiring thing, well it does happen of course and the odd one has caught fire but by god do the anti EV folk love to big that up, its weird as seen many more ICE cars on fire than EV's, never seen one.

The battery degradation thing is largely, as someone mentioned to cars like the Leaf where it wetn from low range to largely useless in a few years, but a 12 year old Leaf isnt a brand new Tesla.

People do worry about these things, getting a huge bill for a new battery puts people off but most actual users of EVs get one, then just get on with using it and dont think about it, companies are springing up to cater for the emerging market, get in now and I suspect there is very good money to be made over the next few years. Get the expertise and reputation in sorting battery issues out and become a household name.

[anonymous-user]

Excellent. Now all we need is the prices to come down and some incentives for blue collar people then we'll start seeing some proper uptake.

[Scabutz]

vikingaero said:

If you only do a few high speed/long distance trips then the few hours of inconvenience from more charging stops is acceptable in the overall ownership.

It's not even a few hours. I mostly use mine locally and charge at home. Did a long trip recently visiting family. 20 mins at the services while I went to the bog and had a coffee and another 20 mins on a fast charger while I was having lunch out.

[CraigyMc]

vikingaero said:

MustangGT said:

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

That may be well and true, but 95% of people will only have one car that has to do both jobs of urban travel and long distance. It's only on PH that we have a car for winter/summer/urban/rural/off-road.

If you only do a few high speed/long distance trips then the few hours of inconvenience from more charging stops is acceptable in the overall ownership.

34% of households have two or more cars as of 2022 data.
--> https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-...

[plfrench]

MrBig said:

Excellent. Now all we need is the prices to come down and some incentives for blue collar people then we'll start seeing some proper uptake.

1 in 4 new cars sold last month is already pretty strong uptake and next year with Renault 5 sub £25k hitting the market as well as several other lower end choices well under £30k will give the transition an even bigger boost. I think next year’s 28% headline share will be comfortably met.

[CraigyMc]

Scabutz said:

vikingaero said:

If you only do a few high speed/long distance trips then the few hours of inconvenience from more charging stops is acceptable in the overall ownership.

It's not even a few hours. I mostly use mine locally and charge at home. Did a long trip recently visiting family. 20 mins at the services while I went to the bog and had a coffee and another 20 mins on a fast charger while I was having lunch out.

"Long trip" means different things to different people. To some people, "long trip" might mean 100 miles. For others, that's not even their daily commute.

I live in the South East and have family in Scotland. I don't consider going there a long trip. It's in the region of 400 miles. I regularly do up and back without refuelling my diesel car

From the South East to Munich is a long trip to me. That's about 800 or so miles depending on route - again, can be done without any enforced stops other than ferry/chunnel.

Are BEV folk really doing stuff like this with their BEVs? (photo taken in Italy, looking at Switzerland. It's near Stelvio). It's not something I'd try in a BEV, but have done repeatedly in iCE cars.

[Over over under steer]

MustangGT said:

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

It’s great to read a sensible and logical response to an EV question - so thank you.

That is exactly our situation, and we have a BMW i3S as my wife’s car and this is absolutely perfect - if I’m honest it’s probably the best car we have ever owned.

A handful of times a year we will do a round trip that is over 200 miles, and when we do, at about 150 miles we pull over have a coffee while the car charges (never been a queue, never had an issue) then 15 minutes later get back on the road.

Another comment noted that 95% of people don’t have two cars, I think that is a vastly inflated figure, as a huge proportion of married couples will likely have two cars, unless they live in a metropolitan area.

[timberman]

We've only got the one car now and do regular round trips of 450 miles between houses.

We're fortunate enough to have a charger at each house so can easily re-charge the battery before the return journey.

As electric cars go, ours is not the most efficient (Bmw I4 M50 on 20" wheels), but so far even in the colder temperatures, as long as we haven't had to make any detours along the way, We're managing to make the journey without having to rely on any public chargers and even when we have it's not caused any issues,

We recently drove from Somerset to Edinburgh with a stop at our other house on the way,
I'd normally just use Waze for guidance, but because I knew we'd need to stop and charge up along the way I decided to let the car work everything out and it really was very easy with the car working out the route, the best places to stop along the way and even getting the battery ready to charge up before we reached the charging stops.

[ZesPak]

MustangGT said:

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

I do a lot of miles, all in an EV. In fact I bought one in 2019 because I did a lot of miles.

Your statement here depends on "how often" and "what kind of trip".

1. Right now, a bog standard model 3, leaving the house at 100%, will do 500 miles with 1h supercharging. Depending on how regular your 240 mile trip is, 1h stopping for 8h driving isn't great but it's far from the worst thing if it's once a month.
2. Fast forward a bit, if it's an overnighter or you stay there for a couple of hours, a regular 11kw charger will reduced that to ~10 min per leg, which sounds more than reasonable to me on a 4h drive.

So your issue to me just sounds like an infrastructure one -> no destination charger at your far end, far from insurmountable.
Also, are you sure? Loads of them have popped up in the past couple of years, check zapmap or plugshare.

I do a lot of long trips and sometimes, especially at night, the stops bother me a bit. But then I remember I'm driving 1500km in one go without ever feeling like I'm falling asleep, which is something I know for a fact cannot do without the regular forced stops.
During the day it never bothers me. Grab a coffee or the like, pop into the bathroom, off we go.
When traveling with the wife and kids, they have to stop more than the car actually does.

[Glosphil]

MustangGT said:

I find it strange that more people do not understand that there is now a fundamental difference in what types of car are suited to what types of use. Pre BEV days there was no difference, but, a BEV is highly suited to stop/start city driving, whereas they are relatively poor at higher, constant speed type of driving, e.g. longer distances.

To me it is a no-brainer, you should have a BEV if you are an urban dweller who meets the following requirements:

A) Off-street charging capability, i.e. your own driveway with the possibility of having a charger.
B) Drive mostly local miles, limited long distance driving.

Otherwise, a BEV may well not be the right solution, as it is not for me with regular 240 mile trips with no domestic charging at the far end before 240 miles back again.

I think it likely you would pass at least one
fast charger in 240 miles.