Speeding ticket advice
Discussion
Hello,
I have just received a ticket, for a speeding offence on the M6 - doing 50mph in a 40mph zone. The zone in question is usually 50mph due to roadwork and physical signs on the side of the roads point to 50mph.
On that day, apparently they reduced the speed on that section from 50 (hard signage) to 40 (on digital display)
Looking at the photo evidence, I looks like the 40 sign is ahead of me - so I am wondering whether I had already entered that 40 zone when I got flashed doing 50...
What are my chances of contesting this?
Thank you
I have just received a ticket, for a speeding offence on the M6 - doing 50mph in a 40mph zone. The zone in question is usually 50mph due to roadwork and physical signs on the side of the roads point to 50mph.
On that day, apparently they reduced the speed on that section from 50 (hard signage) to 40 (on digital display)
Looking at the photo evidence, I looks like the 40 sign is ahead of me - so I am wondering whether I had already entered that 40 zone when I got flashed doing 50...
What are my chances of contesting this?
Thank you
The photo of the 40 sign is the same time as the offence but doesn't show your vehicle. That would imply that you hadn't passed that sign. So if there was a 50mph sign before the gantry surely the limit was 50mph until you reached the gantry.
However, unless you have a dashcam I think you will struggle to prove the 50mph sign was there.
There is a location on an M40 slip where there is a lit up variable speed limit sign at the start of the slip road, but about 20 metres after it on the slip road is a national speed limit sign. To my thinking that means whatever the variable limit shows, it only applies up to the NSL sign.
On the M5 at the moment there is a section of 20mph through roadworks, but near the end there is a large NSL sign then a couple of hundred meters on another 50mph sigh. I reckon I can do 70mph for that 200 metres.
However, unless you have a dashcam I think you will struggle to prove the 50mph sign was there.
There is a location on an M40 slip where there is a lit up variable speed limit sign at the start of the slip road, but about 20 metres after it on the slip road is a national speed limit sign. To my thinking that means whatever the variable limit shows, it only applies up to the NSL sign.
On the M5 at the moment there is a section of 20mph through roadworks, but near the end there is a large NSL sign then a couple of hundred meters on another 50mph sigh. I reckon I can do 70mph for that 200 metres.
vonhosen said:
Looks like you're in lane 4, masked by the Yodel lorry, having passed the 40 sign.
Technically just about to pass under that gantry but my car isn't really showing on that picture - and the sign isn't showing on the picture where my car is shown.Is that defendable or simply a waste of everybody's time?
blueg33 said:
The photo of the 40 sign is the same time as the offence but doesn't show your vehicle. That would imply that you hadn't passed that sign. So if there was a 50mph sign before the gantry surely the limit was 50mph until you reached the gantry.
However, unless you have a dashcam I think you will struggle to prove the 50mph sign was there.
.
I haven't passed the gantry according to the photo evidence - and I have no dashcam. However, isn't the burden of proof on the police in this case to show me that the section I was driving on (not the one I am about to enter) was also a 40 zone?However, unless you have a dashcam I think you will struggle to prove the 50mph sign was there.
.
Rivarama said:
I haven't passed the gantry according to the photo evidence - and I have no dashcam. However, isn't the burden of proof on the police in this case to show me that the section I was driving on (not the one I am about to enter) was also a 40 zone?
Speeding appear to be "guilty until proven innocent"Looking at the pics again - I think you had passed the gantry when the photo was taken, and as another posted said your car is probably behind the Yodel truck. So you were speeding.
The photo of the gantry is merely to show what the gantry was showing at the exact time the HADECS3 took the pic of the speeding vehicles. HADECS3 always take a pic of the rear of the car after it has passed the gantry with the speed limit showing.
The photo of the gantry is merely to show what the gantry was showing at the exact time the HADECS3 took the pic of the speeding vehicles. HADECS3 always take a pic of the rear of the car after it has passed the gantry with the speed limit showing.
Rivarama said:
vonhosen said:
Looks like you're in lane 4, masked by the Yodel lorry, having passed the 40 sign.
Technically just about to pass under that gantry but my car isn't really showing on that picture - and the sign isn't showing on the picture where my car is shown.Is that defendable or simply a waste of everybody's time?
Rivarama said:
I haven't passed the gantry according to the photo evidence - and I have no dashcam. However, isn't the burden of proof on the police in this case to show me that the section I was driving on (not the one I am about to enter) was also a 40 zone?
The speed camera is mounted on the side of the gantry, therefore it can only take photos of cars that have already passed the gantry and are in the speed limit zone.The third photo is from a secondary camara which shows a wider view and the gantry itself, as proof & corroboration of the speed limit signs that are being shown at the time.
It's not contestable in that regard. There is photo evidence of you doing a speed of 50 after the gantry. That is a physical thing as has been said, the Hadecs camera is in a place that it does it's thing after the gantry. The photo of the gantry is merely to show what the speed limit was at the exact time you are recorded at 50mph. Your car doesn't need to be visible in that pic.
The data on the pics shows it's been set at that speed for over an hour. No wriggle room I can see there I'm afraid.
The data on the pics shows it's been set at that speed for over an hour. No wriggle room I can see there I'm afraid.
The first photo was taken at 15:35:37, and you were adjacent to the white lorry in L1 of the opposite carriageway. The third photo showing the gantry and speed limit was taken at the same time, from the camera 100 yards before the gantry. The white lorry is before the gantry. You were past it. The limit had been posted for over an hour.
Not sure why those of you think the OP is behind the Yodel lorry, or even in the pic showing the gantry, because that is not necessarily the case, and it is extremely unlikely that the OP is even anywhere in the field of view of the gantry.
The gantry pic is taken at the same time as the "speeding" pic showing the displayed limit at the time that the offence was captured and should not be referred to in any other way.
It could even be a mile or so (not sure of gantry spacing) back down the road, it is simply shown to show the limit in force at the time.
The 40 sign isn't ahead of the OP and you were already in the section.
Unfortunately OP you were speeding & need to see what happens next, your chances of contesting it are basically zero on the thought that you might not be there yet.
The gantry pic is taken at the same time as the "speeding" pic showing the displayed limit at the time that the offence was captured and should not be referred to in any other way.
It could even be a mile or so (not sure of gantry spacing) back down the road, it is simply shown to show the limit in force at the time.
The 40 sign isn't ahead of the OP and you were already in the section.
Unfortunately OP you were speeding & need to see what happens next, your chances of contesting it are basically zero on the thought that you might not be there yet.
Rivarama said:
vonhosen said:
Looks like you're in lane 4, masked by the Yodel lorry, having passed the 40 sign.
Technically just about to pass under that gantry but my car isn't really showing on that picture - and the sign isn't showing on the picture where my car is shown.Is that defendable or simply a waste of everybody's time?
In the photo showing the limit the yodel lorry is masking you.
The white lorry ahead of the yodel lorry (in its lane) is the white lorry ahead of you in photo 1.
The camera that took that photo & recorded your speed is on the gantry that was displaying the 40 limit. You are past the camera & gantry doing 50mph.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 7th January 10:40
You're doing 50 at a point that the white truck in the opposite carriageway is alongside you.
The other pic shows the gantry showing 40 and that truck is behind it.
As the limit had not changed for over an hour, I can't see how you can argue that there was no gantry sign showing 40. You must have passed under it.
The other pic shows the gantry showing 40 and that truck is behind it.
As the limit had not changed for over an hour, I can't see how you can argue that there was no gantry sign showing 40. You must have passed under it.
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