Getting involved in a car chase (or not)
Discussion
At the risk of finding myself on the "Misfits, Dad's Army Types et al" Walts thread, I thought I'd tell you a short story which happened this afternoon. Sorry - it won't win a Pulitzer...
This afternoon returning from an appointment in North London, I was on the A40 around Ealing heading Westbound in fairly heavy but flowing traffic moving at between 25-35mph. In my mirrors I could see a dark red sporty looking car slaloming through traffic followed by a grey SUV with flashing blue lights. Since the lead car did not have lights itself, I thought it was likely being pursued by the second car and an idea flashed through my mind. I could make it look like there was a space for the sports car to pass me, but then close it up at the last second, thereby trapping the car. But I had no way of communicating this thought to other drivers so we couldn't block him in. But then I realised I had really no idea what was going on and perhaps the lead car was carrying out an urgent mission - so I decided to leave it to the professionals and not get involved.
As the pair of cars went past me at an undramatic speed I realised that the lead car was a Jaguar F-Type coupe with its rear spoiler up and the car following it was an unmarked police Volvo. So probably stolen, speeding or with some sort of intel. Then about a minute a marked car came by on blues, and over the next 5 minutes about 6 more cars both marked and unmarked came through on blues, I imagine all going after the same F-Type. During those 10 minutes I started wondering what would have happened if I'd blocked off the chased car and then got rammed. I don't know whether insurance would have classified it as a fault accident. I was driving a 19-year-old Audi which although not high mileage for its age (70k) probably has very little actual monetary value. So in that case the car would have been written off and I'd have ended up with an extra space on my driveway and little else to show for it. And I could have been pushed into other traffic, causing more widespread damage. Would I have been liable? I don't know.
So police members, if I had deliberately blocked in the car that appears to have been being chased (in this situation with not much speed differential with other traffic) would you have found that potentially useful, or would you never want members of the public getting involved even if it means avoiding a high speed chase? I've seen various US police car chases where a trucker or a car has got in the way of a pursued car and helped bring the chase to an end to the relief of the police. I can't say if I would have actually got involved, but the idea did flash through my mind. I usually carry a yellow vest in my car as recommended for breakdowns. Maybe I'm a Walt!!
This afternoon returning from an appointment in North London, I was on the A40 around Ealing heading Westbound in fairly heavy but flowing traffic moving at between 25-35mph. In my mirrors I could see a dark red sporty looking car slaloming through traffic followed by a grey SUV with flashing blue lights. Since the lead car did not have lights itself, I thought it was likely being pursued by the second car and an idea flashed through my mind. I could make it look like there was a space for the sports car to pass me, but then close it up at the last second, thereby trapping the car. But I had no way of communicating this thought to other drivers so we couldn't block him in. But then I realised I had really no idea what was going on and perhaps the lead car was carrying out an urgent mission - so I decided to leave it to the professionals and not get involved.
As the pair of cars went past me at an undramatic speed I realised that the lead car was a Jaguar F-Type coupe with its rear spoiler up and the car following it was an unmarked police Volvo. So probably stolen, speeding or with some sort of intel. Then about a minute a marked car came by on blues, and over the next 5 minutes about 6 more cars both marked and unmarked came through on blues, I imagine all going after the same F-Type. During those 10 minutes I started wondering what would have happened if I'd blocked off the chased car and then got rammed. I don't know whether insurance would have classified it as a fault accident. I was driving a 19-year-old Audi which although not high mileage for its age (70k) probably has very little actual monetary value. So in that case the car would have been written off and I'd have ended up with an extra space on my driveway and little else to show for it. And I could have been pushed into other traffic, causing more widespread damage. Would I have been liable? I don't know.
So police members, if I had deliberately blocked in the car that appears to have been being chased (in this situation with not much speed differential with other traffic) would you have found that potentially useful, or would you never want members of the public getting involved even if it means avoiding a high speed chase? I've seen various US police car chases where a trucker or a car has got in the way of a pursued car and helped bring the chase to an end to the relief of the police. I can't say if I would have actually got involved, but the idea did flash through my mind. I usually carry a yellow vest in my car as recommended for breakdowns. Maybe I'm a Walt!!
Edited by LunarOne on Wednesday 8th January 19:00
[ for its age (70k)
So police members, if I had deliberately blocked in the car that appears to have been being chased (in this situation with not much speed differential with other traffic) would you have found that potentially useful, or would you never want members of the public getting involved even if it means avoiding a high speed chase? I've seen various US police car chases where a trucker or a car has got in the way of a pursued car and helped bring the case to and end to the relief of their police. I can't say if I would have actually got involved, but the idea did flash through my mind. I usually carry a yellow vest in my car as recommended for breakdowns. Maybe I'm a Walt!!
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Stay out of it. Last thing I'd want is a member of the public getting in the way and causing more paperwork when it goes wrong.
Plus, if they aren't insured and damaged your car...guess who's insurance would be paying out...
So police members, if I had deliberately blocked in the car that appears to have been being chased (in this situation with not much speed differential with other traffic) would you have found that potentially useful, or would you never want members of the public getting involved even if it means avoiding a high speed chase? I've seen various US police car chases where a trucker or a car has got in the way of a pursued car and helped bring the case to and end to the relief of their police. I can't say if I would have actually got involved, but the idea did flash through my mind. I usually carry a yellow vest in my car as recommended for breakdowns. Maybe I'm a Walt!!
[/quote]
Stay out of it. Last thing I'd want is a member of the public getting in the way and causing more paperwork when it goes wrong.
Plus, if they aren't insured and damaged your car...guess who's insurance would be paying out...
I believe I was also in that drama today on the A40. It also crossed my mind (and in previous similar situations) we're barely doing 35 mph, it would appear so easy to stop any vehicle getting through with just a little make a gap remove the gap. But I guess the fear of a really desperate to escape, baddie and the thought of them just pushing through many cars stops us from doing anything about it.
In a similar vein, I've spotted ambulances and unmarked (flashing blues) police cars approaching in the mirrors from an estimated 800 metres away and it takes them forever to actually pass through the traffic.
In a similar vein, I've spotted ambulances and unmarked (flashing blues) police cars approaching in the mirrors from an estimated 800 metres away and it takes them forever to actually pass through the traffic.
LunarOne said:
Do the police use an F-Type for that sort of thing? Weaving through that sort of traffic has quite a high potential for a bump or a scrape!
I don’t know what the MET do or do not use as subject vehicles for driver training but if this was in Ealing then it’s not exactly a million miles away from Hendon.If it was driver training then yes, they will train in ‘real-world’ conditions such as the situation you describe and found yourself in.
The City of London police had just two patrol cars back in the day: a marked, in more ways than one, car, callsign A7, and an unmarked (ish) A8. There was a call to the Strand, over the west border in the MPD. Both cars responded, A8 in the lead, going via Fleet Street, at least until they got to the junction with Fetter Lane, when a civically-minded cab decided to block A8. The driver was not expecting the block. There was an unfortunate collision.
We all laughed. Well, I say all, but just the blokes on shift actually.
As someone above said, drive normally. Pull over if possible, and in good time. Don't try to follow immediately, as there might be an unmarked supporting vehicle.
We all laughed. Well, I say all, but just the blokes on shift actually.
As someone above said, drive normally. Pull over if possible, and in good time. Don't try to follow immediately, as there might be an unmarked supporting vehicle.
Family member did just that in the early 90,s. But with a difference.
Local plod stopped in town center to have a word/ arrest local scrote. Local scrote jumps in plod car and has it away through town.
Family member sees what is happening and offers local plod a lift to follow said scrote. Eventually caught.
The scene of a bright red vauxhall mantra with 1990,s Max power looks chasing police car was quite entertaining at the time.
The local police were very gratefull to family member afterwards.
Caught speeding, ok dont do it again.
Caught with a bit of cannabis, ok dont do it again.
Parking on double yellows outside take away shop, dont do it again.
One for the council thread but was funny at the time.
Local plod stopped in town center to have a word/ arrest local scrote. Local scrote jumps in plod car and has it away through town.
Family member sees what is happening and offers local plod a lift to follow said scrote. Eventually caught.
The scene of a bright red vauxhall mantra with 1990,s Max power looks chasing police car was quite entertaining at the time.
The local police were very gratefull to family member afterwards.
Caught speeding, ok dont do it again.
Caught with a bit of cannabis, ok dont do it again.
Parking on double yellows outside take away shop, dont do it again.
One for the council thread but was funny at the time.
Retired. Ex traffic. Definitely never get involved in any police incident involving potential ongoing pursuit/fail to stop.
You have no idea what’s happening, suspect car could have real bad guys fleeing armed incident or it might just be a local lad who has stolen a vehicle to order or for kicks, don’t take the risk, also the police driver will probably have enough going on with radio updates, trying to anticipate what the target vehicle driver might do to avoid capture to then be confronted by Joe Public trying to help. It’s not easy pursuing a vehicle and I talk from vast experience of early 90s ram raids and car thefts where we would chase two or three cars each night.
The last reason I would never get involved and probably the most important is self preservation.
Police hierarchy and cps like to find blame in all incidents and they always like to have a positive outcome where crime etc is occurring, they also like to be seen to be doing things. If god forbid a member of the public got involved and bad guy crashed due to the publics action and ANYONE was killed or injured, you would possibly be facing charges of dangerous or death by dangerous driving.
Unfortunately over years police hierarchy and cps have terminally went downhill, and I would not trust them as far as I could throw them, they would find the nearest bus and throw you under it.
You have no idea what’s happening, suspect car could have real bad guys fleeing armed incident or it might just be a local lad who has stolen a vehicle to order or for kicks, don’t take the risk, also the police driver will probably have enough going on with radio updates, trying to anticipate what the target vehicle driver might do to avoid capture to then be confronted by Joe Public trying to help. It’s not easy pursuing a vehicle and I talk from vast experience of early 90s ram raids and car thefts where we would chase two or three cars each night.
The last reason I would never get involved and probably the most important is self preservation.
Police hierarchy and cps like to find blame in all incidents and they always like to have a positive outcome where crime etc is occurring, they also like to be seen to be doing things. If god forbid a member of the public got involved and bad guy crashed due to the publics action and ANYONE was killed or injured, you would possibly be facing charges of dangerous or death by dangerous driving.
Unfortunately over years police hierarchy and cps have terminally went downhill, and I would not trust them as far as I could throw them, they would find the nearest bus and throw you under it.
As a pursuit traffic officer and now police driver trainer who teaches police pursuit, I'd advise not to get involved. Pursuits are probably THE most dangerous incidents that police get involved in day to day, they can be inherently risky and dangerous. A lot of time and effort is put into training pursuits and trying to mitigate the risks. The criminals can be VERY unpredictable and the potential for getting hurt is too high a risk.
It has happened in the past mind you, HGV's for example have been known to use their large vehicles to try and 'block' the progress of the vehicle being pursued.
As far as that incident, that 99% wasn't a training exercise, I don't know of any police driving school that uses a F-type as a subject (vehicle being pursued) vehicle, not even the so called mighty MET (;))
It has happened in the past mind you, HGV's for example have been known to use their large vehicles to try and 'block' the progress of the vehicle being pursued.
As far as that incident, that 99% wasn't a training exercise, I don't know of any police driving school that uses a F-type as a subject (vehicle being pursued) vehicle, not even the so called mighty MET (;))
Sebring440 said:
LunarOne said:
Do the police use an F-Type for that sort of thing?
Yes, and you did see that the rear spoiler was up. That's an important detail, glad you noticed. It tells you that it's a police exercise. You were wise not to get involved.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff